Shootout in New Orleans Gun Range

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https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/article_a897bee4-73ca-11eb-bbcb-df381460932f.html
"It appears a suspect shot two victims inside the location, then was engaged and shot outside the location by multiple other individuals," said Capt. Jason Rivarde, a Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office spokesman. "The suspect is one of the deceased on scene."
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As usual the details are very poor

  • A shooting broke out after an argument at a gun range in Metairie, Louisiana.
  • A man argued with an employee who told him his gun shouldn't be loaded until he got inside the range.
  • Three people are dead and two were taken to a local hospital in stable condition, police said.
Click to expand...

MSN

www.msn.com
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TripleO7 said:
I've never liked the idea of a "cold range"? If that's the correct terminology for a place that doesn't allow loaded guns unless you are actually on the range.
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Every range I’ve ever been to in NC is a cold range. For what it’s worth.

Private gun clubs I’m a member of allow you to CC, but the ones open to the public it’s no bueno.
 
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oetkb said:
Every range I’ve ever been to in NC is a cold range. For what it’s worth.

Private gun clubs I’m a member of allow you to CC, but the ones open to the public it’s no bueno.
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Maybe I am confused but doesn’t concealed mean concealed? I have never been frisked at a gun range.
 
Amps 13 said:
Maybe I am confused but doesn’t concealed mean concealed? I have never been frisked at a gun range.
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The post I was replying to made no reference to concealed. All of us have seen folks show upo with all manner of firearms in all manner of conditions. AK pistols held in the hand while standing in line, not boxed, covered, or holstered, you name it. Guys pulling guns out of bags on the firing line pointing up range at everyone waiting behind them, etc
 
NKD said:
I get cold sweats at public ranges. Just takes one idiot to ruin your day. And they are seemingly packed with idiots.
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Hmmm ... that one a week or so back at a Vegas shooting range ... now one at a New Orleans range ... sounds like public ranges might be a “no go” for a while ... or more ... or vest up and take a partner to cover you.
 
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TripleO7 said:
I've never liked the idea of a "cold range"? If that's the correct terminology for a place that doesn't allow loaded guns unless you are actually on the range.
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You apparently haven't been around enough ranges with the general public. You'll get swept and muzzled all day long, by people that don't know what they're doing. The same ones that turn toward you with their gun pointed at you saying it's jammed while they try to fix it.
Now, if you're CCW, then that should be allowed.
 
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NCFubar said:
Hmmm ... that one a week or so back at a Vegas shooting range ... now one at a New Orleans range ... sounds like public ranges might be a “no go” for a while ... or more ... or vest up and take a partner to cover you.
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Whatever you do, make sure you are armed with a loaded gun!
 
You gotta have your head on a swivel at any range, had an old timer with a .22 that did not fire, he sweeps my lane, holds the gun towards his face to look at it. Waved to the RO and they got him straight real fast. Even with resistant glass I keep my eyes open.
 
NKD said:
And they are seemingly packed with idiots.
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people? yea, pretty much 99% idiots. don't matter if you're at a gun range, grocery store..... sorry, having a hard time coming up with a 3rd public place I go anymore.... oh, gas station!
 
NCFubar said:
That’s the #1 rule of a gunfight ... bring one or if possible two
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This has been ammended...#1 rule in a gunfight..Don't get shot.

Also, here...#1 rule for range safety is Gunsite rule 1...
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

Our range mantra to ALL...Watch Those Muzzles!!!!!!!

Believe it or not...we have had folks "offended" when told this.
 
georgel said:
You apparently haven't been around enough ranges with the general public. You'll get swept and muzzled all day long, by people that don't know what they're doing. The same ones that turn toward you with their gun pointed at you saying it's jammed while they try to fix it.
Now, if you're CCW, then that should be allowed.
Click to expand...

I've been to plenty of public ranges. The ones I use allow you to unholster your CC and use it on the range. I am OK to practice draw at the one I am a member at.

I avoid what I call Groupon time. Weekends, holidays, etc. Nearly (IMO anyway) got shot cuz the guy next to me was showing off in front of his GF. I've written about it before. He ND'd at my target. It was at the 0.5 yds from the bench because I was using a bullseye instead of a grid and I was trying to eyeball the windage adjustment. A little more of a wave on his part could have resulted in a test of the supposed ballistic material between lanes. I packed up and left immediately. Settled down and mentioned it to the RSO otw out. I have considered body armor.

I did a repair on a pistol last night and polished some innards since I had it apart. I would dearly love to go and test fire it today, but chances are the range will be packed. I may throw it in the range bag and do a drive by to see if the lot is packed. If they're not busy, I may shoot today.

For clarity, this is what I am talking about....From the FAQ page for the Foothills Range. You are essentially defenseless unless you are on the range and it is hot.
https://foothillspublicshooting.cc/faqs/

What is a cold range? A cold range is any range where firearms always remain unloaded with only one exception. When you are at a firing position on a range attended by a range officer, and the range officer has announced the range is hot, is the only time and place it is safe to load and fire your firearm. We provide a remote, marked safe-unloading station where you can confirm your firearm is unloaded. Please use this rather than the range parking areas!

Do I have to unload all my magazines? No. However, your magazines should be kept separate from your firearm until on the firing line.

If I have a CCW permit can I carry my pistol concealed on the range? No. Your concealed carry permit does not allow you to carry a concealed weapon at Foothills Public Shooting Complex. Concealed weapons are NOT allowed on the property. For the safety of our customers and staff, please do not violate this rule!

LOL, even a state website refers to your CHP as a CCW, unless of course they mean from a state we have reciprocity with?
 
oetkb said:
Every range I’ve ever been to in NC is a cold range. For what it’s worth.

Private gun clubs I’m a member of allow you to CC, but the ones open to the public it’s no bueno.
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The privately owned ranges I use that are open to the public have no issue with legally carried firearms.
 
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I own a range,, and incidents where armed people get hurt is unacceptable. SAFETY FIRST.

Now,, the comments about a "cold range."
The info about Foothills is excellent.
IT'S ABOUT SAFETY FIRST!!!!!!!!

As a range owner,, I WORRY about lawyers & liability.
I have seen way too many unsafe gun handlers to NOT worry. (Read some of the various posts above as good examples.)

And it's often the family of a deceased individual, combined with the rabid anti-gun media that can cause the lawsuits. We use the cold range attitude to help offset the POTENTIAL issues that have arisen from UNSAFE GUN HANDLING!

I often ask anyone who objects to my reasons for my cold range the following;
"Will you place all of your monetary possessions in my possession to allow you to carry hot? That includes your house, your vehicles, your entire livelihood, any money you have, any stocks, investments, your entire gun collection etc."
Why do I do this?
Because I could LOOSE all of MY possessions because of an unsafe gun handler causing injury or death here.

And even the most experienced gun people can AND DO have lapses in handling issues. I know of several.

Go & shoot a USPSA match. As far as I know,, all gun ranges that host such matches do NOT allow ANY loaded firearms unless under the immediate control of a range officer. This includes your CCW firearm. The only exception is a uniformed LEO while acting in his official capacity as an officer, enforcing a law.
You can't even handle a firearm unless in a safe area, or on the line under supervision.
For the proof of these rules working,,,, look at the statistics of how SAFE USPSA actually is.

So,, if you come to my range,, and want to keep your CCW firearm loaded,, you will not be allowed there.
And due to so many unsafe gun handlers,, my range is a closed place except under such rules,, as well as other rules.

Unsafe gun handling has caused way too many injuries & death.
 
contender said:
I own a range,, and incidents where armed people get hurt is unacceptable. SAFETY FIRST.

Now,, the comments about a "cold range."
The info about Foothills is excellent.
IT'S ABOUT SAFETY FIRST!!!!!!!!

As a range owner,, I WORRY about lawyers & liability.
I have seen way too many unsafe gun handlers to NOT worry. (Read some of the various posts above as good examples.)

And it's often the family of a deceased individual, combined with the rabid anti-gun media that can cause the lawsuits. We use the cold range attitude to help offset the POTENTIAL issues that have arisen from UNSAFE GUN HANDLING!

I often ask anyone who objects to my reasons for my cold range the following;
"Will you place all of your monetary possessions in my possession to allow you to carry hot? That includes your house, your vehicles, your entire livelihood, any money you have, any stocks, investments, your entire gun collection etc."
Why do I do this?
Because I could LOOSE all of MY possessions because of an unsafe gun handler causing injury or death here.

And even the most experienced gun people can AND DO have lapses in handling issues. I know of several.

Go & shoot a USPSA match. As far as I know,, all gun ranges that host such matches do NOT allow ANY loaded firearms unless under the immediate control of a range officer. This includes your CCW firearm. The only exception is a uniformed LEO while acting in his official capacity as an officer, enforcing a law.
You can't even handle a firearm unless in a safe area, or on the line under supervision.
For the proof of these rules working,,,, look at the statistics of how SAFE USPSA actually is.

So,, if you come to my range,, and want to keep your CCW firearm loaded,, you will not be allowed there.
And due to so many unsafe gun handlers,, my range is a closed place except under such rules,, as well as other rules.

Unsafe gun handling has caused way too many injuries & death.
Click to expand...

Soooo.... your gun range isn't an LLC?

Don't get me wrong. I totally agree with you. Safety at YOUR business means YOUR rules. I'm not arguing that point.

But any wrongful death suit would (if you have it set up properly) be against your business, not your personal belongings.

Yes, we're into semantics now. I get it. And, again, your business equals your rules. You don't even owe me an explanation of your rules. But if your personal belongings are in any way attached to your business, "you ain't doing it right".
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
This has been ammended...#1 rule in a gunfight..Don't get shot.

Also, here...#1 rule for range safety is Gunsite rule 1...
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

Our range mantra to ALL...Watch Those Muzzles!!!!!!!

Believe it or not...we have had folks "offended" when told this.
Click to expand...
Muzzle discipline is a little easier to teach with long guns ... handguns require a bit more work with many people. I started my son at 8 years old with him working with a handgun with me not within grab distance. I taped a long red straw with a little flag to the underside of the Ruger 22/45 I was teaching him with ... it allowed him to see the precise direction the muzzle was pointing way better than just a 4” barrel. Some people kinda looked funny at me but when they saw his muzzle discipline they realized it actually did serve a good purpose.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
This has been ammended...#1 rule in a gunfight..Don't get shot.

Also, here...#1 rule for range safety is Gunsite rule 1...
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

Our range mantra to ALL...Watch Those Muzzles!!!!!!!

Believe it or not...we have had folks "offended" when told this.
Click to expand...

You're making it harder and harder not to come down.
 
At public ranges I always as to be out as far away from other shooters as possible. I always show the range officer my shot timer as the reason. 99% of the time they comply. This allows me to keep some distance between me and other shooters. I am still aware of other shooters at all times on all ranges. Even the best of us make mistakes.

two fingers said:
Soooo.... your gun range isn't an LLC?

Don't get me wrong. I totally agree with you. Safety at YOUR business means YOUR rules. I'm not arguing that point.

But any wrongful death suit would (if you have it set up properly) be against your business, not your personal belongings.

Yes, we're into semantics now. I get it. And, again, your business equals your rules. You don't even owe me an explanation of your rules. But if your personal belongings are in any way attached to your business, "you ain't doing it right".
Click to expand...

I don't know the particulars but if the range is on his personal property a LLC is not going to offer him much protection. I agree with you that if I operated a range the land and the business would not be in my name for the reasons you have stated.
 
I can't figure out if this is trying to be a "good guys with guns" or a "there will be blood in the streets/Wild wild west" story...

scallywagandvagabond.com

Joshua Jamal Williams & Noah Fischbach id Jefferson Gun Outlet shooting

Jefferson Gun Outlet shooting leaves three dead, two injured. Joshua Jamal Williams & Noah Fischbach i'd in Metaire New Orelans shooting.
scallywagandvagabond.com

sounds like one victim just caught a stray round and wasn't engaging with anyone. I wonder how many rounds were fired...
 
As a person who has a range,, AND a wife that used to work for an attorney as a paralegal,, even my LLC isn't enough protection. Lawyers have a mantra,, "Sue everybody & see who has deep pockets & what will stick!"
My rules are just ANOTHER layer of protection to try & prevent too much of an expense in the event of a lawsuit.

And remember this thought;
20, 30, 40 years ago,, it was much easier just to go out in the country & shoot,, or to the county dump etc. Nobody complained, nobody worried, fewer houses or developments etc to prevent casual shooting of your preferred type.
Nowadays,, that's just not the case.
Just try & open an outdoor gun range now. See how far it goes,, and how much you will spend just TRYING to get it past zoning laws, county restrictions, and especially neighbors anywhere within 5 miles of it.


I was smart enough to start my range long ago, and I'm grandfathered, as well as in an area zoned to where they can't stop me. Lots of people do NOT have a place to shoot anymore,, and it's only getting worse.
I have a friend in New Jersey,, who is a serious handgun hunter. He drives 45 minute ONE WAY,,, just to be able to use a range.

Henderson County had a group of shooters who had a club, was in all ways,, compliant with zoning etc. Yet,, a development over 1/2 mile away,, went after them. And even when they THOUGHT they were going to get past the County Commissioners & all,, (even with a club member, a lawyer who was doing their work for free,) they County Commissioners shut them down.
So, will those of us who enjoy shooting abide by simple safety rules,, or give up shooting?
Times have changed.
People are not raised to be safe, and many have never been exposed to firearms other than Hollyweird or video gaming. We, as responsible gun owners should be doing all we can to promote SAFE gun handling, and safe gun rules.
And as stated above;
"My range, My rules."
Legally,, this is just one small part of trying to prevent financial ruin, or more importantly,, the possibility of an injury or death.
 
Many ranges allow legal carry but NOT draw loaded from holster.

In other words 'I'm here to shoot, gonna shoot my carry gun, here it is in my belly band holster I'll just whip it out when I'm on the line.'

Concealed means it stays concealed 100% of the time [or open carry stays holstered.]

Wanna shoot your carry gun? Draw and unload in your car, bring it in cased and unloaded.

Try showing up at a sanctioned match of any discipline wanting to shoot your loaded holstered carry gun. DQ and don't come back.

Unfortunately what I learned in Scouts or at summer camp when I was 7-10 years old is now considered heresy to expose kids to, most folks buy their first gun with only YouTube and Xbox gun safety 'training.' And decline in military service for 18-25 age group.

Favorite public range habit is the shooter next to you racking the slide with 'push your hands together' technique across their body with bbl parallel to firing line.
 
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vp9c said:
I'm guessing some surveillance footage will emerge. Most ranges and FFL's seem to have security cams.
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With the mother saying on Facebook (if she truly was his mother not a troll) “He was murdered!” she sure is stirring the pot for the business and those involved to be the subject of threats and such by haters. Hell, even if the surveillance video shows him walking in gun in hand MSM, Reverend Al and so on will likely twist it “Black Man“ shot by white gun owners or something ... burn that mother down!
 
NCFubar said:
With the mother saying on Facebook (if she truly was his mother not a troll) “He was murdered!” she sure is stirring the pot for the business and those involved to be the subject of threats and such by haters. Hell, even if the surveillance video shows him walking in gun in hand MSM, Reverend Al and so on will likely twist it “Black Man“ shot by white gun owners or something ... burn that mother down!
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one time the rev jesse jackson was scheduled to send out his minions to protest a gun shop and range about 10yards from the detroit city limit, because shutting down guns is the responsible thing to do
The local news caught me holding up a ME v RevJJ sign about "responsible" things in a table format. it included things like affairs and illegitimate children.
If i recall correctly, the first of the rainbow coalition to show up reported back that they were going to be grossly outnumbered by counter-protesters, on tv, and the event was cancelled.
 
contender said:
As a person who has a range,, AND a wife that used to work for an attorney as a paralegal,, even my LLC isn't enough protection. Lawyers have a mantra,, "Sue everybody & see who has deep pockets & what will stick!"
My rules are just ANOTHER layer of protection to try & prevent too much of an expense in the event of a lawsuit.

And remember this thought;
20, 30, 40 years ago,, it was much easier just to go out in the country & shoot,, or to the county dump etc. Nobody complained, nobody worried, fewer houses or developments etc to prevent casual shooting of your preferred type.
Nowadays,, that's just not the case.
Just try & open an outdoor gun range now. See how far it goes,, and how much you will spend just TRYING to get it past zoning laws, county restrictions, and especially neighbors anywhere within 5 miles of it.


I was smart enough to start my range long ago, and I'm grandfathered, as well as in an area zoned to where they can't stop me. Lots of people do NOT have a place to shoot anymore,, and it's only getting worse.
I have a friend in New Jersey,, who is a serious handgun hunter. He drives 45 minute ONE WAY,,, just to be able to use a range.

Henderson County had a group of shooters who had a club, was in all ways,, compliant with zoning etc. Yet,, a development over 1/2 mile away,, went after them. And even when they THOUGHT they were going to get past the County Commissioners & all,, (even with a club member, a lawyer who was doing their work for free,) they County Commissioners shut them down.
So, will those of us who enjoy shooting abide by simple safety rules,, or give up shooting?
Times have changed.
People are not raised to be safe, and many have never been exposed to firearms other than Hollyweird or video gaming. We, as responsible gun owners should be doing all we can to promote SAFE gun handling, and safe gun rules.
And as stated above;
"My range, My rules."
Legally,, this is just one small part of trying to prevent financial ruin, or more importantly,, the possibility of an injury or death.
Click to expand...
I'm in Tega Cay just across the border from Charlotte, I drive over an hour to shoot. I only shoot a few times a year. It sucks. It's a pain in the...I used to just go to the dump as said before. I thought we were supposed to have flying cars by now.
 
My range is Hawkeye Gun Club & range. It's a USPSA only range. It's not open to the public. Don't try & make a drive to visit or anything, as it's not "open to the public."
 
excerpts from an article
Officials said the deadly incident was sparked by Joshua Jamal Williams, a 27-year-old New Orleans man, whose family said he'd gone to spend family time at the range. Sources said Williams had carried a pistol with an extended clip into the range at 6719 Airline Drive when staff told him to unload his weapon. They said he fired a warning round before fatally shooting Fischbach, who was working as the store clerk.
After news of the shootout spread, Williams' family was quick to say the New Orleans man wasn't at fault over the weekend. A woman on social media who said she was Williams' mother posted a message saying that her son didn't go into the range shooting and that he was fired at by employees.
"He was MURDERED," said the woman, who identified herself as Trudy Edwards.
"What I can say, is that our store was attacked by Joshua Williams on 2/20 around 3 p.m. He walked in our store and was asked by our compliance officer to unload his firearm before entering," Mayer said. "He became agitated by the request and pulled his gun out of his pants and started firing. Our armed and trained employees, as well as some armed, permitted customers, returned fire and eliminated the threat. One customer as well as one employee perished in the gun battle. Joshua Williams, the gunman, is also dead."

You all know i'm constantly defending all races against their worst examples, but this "my baby didn't do nothing and was murdered" stuff is really not helping matters.
I'd say this clip from the tv show The Boondocks, which was created by a black man, and voiced primarily by black actors and actresses, and met all required social expectations, and was aired without being pulled down, had the situation described.
Either that or Williams had an ND, then the employee drew on him out of defense, then williams panicked and kept shooting. Maybe a combination of both situations.
 
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I quit going to the local gunshops because of the type people that are buying firearms. Most of the new buyers that I observed are not buying for the same reasons.
 
www.nola.com

After 3 dead in Jefferson Gun Outlet shooting, sheriff doesn't know 'if we'll ever know the why'

At first, Joshua Jamal Williams seemed to be complying with a request from staffers at Jefferson Gun Outlet to take his loaded pistol out of the Metairie gun range, where
www.nola.com www.nola.com

During a brief phone call Monday, Williams mother, Trudy Edwards Williams, didn’t dispute the findings that the Sheriff’s Office discussed with the media. But she said what happened Saturday just wasn’t consistent with the son she had raised.
“This was not his character,” Trudy Williams said. “He went through life hardships as well as anybody else I knew.”

On Monday, a woman named Janice Hutchinson, who identified herself as Williams aunt, wrote on Facebook,
She wrote about the pain and emptiness the family is suffering because of the deaths of innocent people at the hands of a loved one, noting that Williams had anger control issues that stemmed from social ills.
“He did a monstrous deed, but he was not a monster,” she wrote.

1)Then he turned back toward the counter and inexplicably executed a customer
2)During the first exchange of gunfire, Williams hit one of the employees in the arm
3)Williams then continued down a hallway, seemingly searching for other victims, Lopinto said.
4)A second employee suffered a gunshot wound to his leg during the parking lot shootout, Lopinto said.
5)The extended magazine clip on Joshua Williams' gun could hold 31 bullets with a 32nd in the chamber. Williams fired every one, Lopinto said.
6)Joshua Williams rounded the gun store's counter and shot a crouching Fischbach once in the back, according to the Sheriff's Office.

This is the very definition of a Fn monster!

"I don't know if we'll ever know the 'why,'" Jefferson Parish Sheriff Joseph Lopinto said during a news conference Monday"

You damn well know why..
Say it...SAY IT!
 
Friday said:
www.nola.com

After 3 dead in Jefferson Gun Outlet shooting, sheriff doesn't know 'if we'll ever know the why'

At first, Joshua Jamal Williams seemed to be complying with a request from staffers at Jefferson Gun Outlet to take his loaded pistol out of the Metairie gun range, where
www.nola.com www.nola.com

During a brief phone call Monday, Williams mother, Trudy Edwards Williams, didn’t dispute the findings that the Sheriff’s Office discussed with the media. But she said what happened Saturday just wasn’t consistent with the son she had raised.
“This was not his character,” Trudy Williams said. “He went through life hardships as well as anybody else I knew.”

On Monday, a woman named Janice Hutchinson, who identified herself as Williams aunt, wrote on Facebook,
She wrote about the pain and emptiness the family is suffering because of the deaths of innocent people at the hands of a loved one, noting that Williams had anger control issues that stemmed from social ills.
“He did a monstrous deed, but he was not a monster,” she wrote.

1)Then he turned back toward the counter and inexplicably executed a customer
2)During the first exchange of gunfire, Williams hit one of the employees in the arm
3)Williams then continued down a hallway, seemingly searching for other victims, Lopinto said.
4)A second employee suffered a gunshot wound to his leg during the parking lot shootout, Lopinto said.
5)The extended magazine clip on Joshua Williams' gun could hold 31 bullets with a 32nd in the chamber. Williams fired every one, Lopinto said.
6)Joshua Williams rounded the gun store's counter and shot a crouching Fischbach once in the back, according to the Sheriff's Office.

This is the very definition of a Fn monster!

"I don't know if we'll ever know the 'why,'" Jefferson Parish Sheriff Joseph Lopinto said during a news conference Monday"

You damn well know why..
Say it...SAY IT!
Click to expand...

what an asshole.
 
just think of all the people that would have been killed if more people at the range/shop had carry guns...
 
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