Silver
- Thread starter shooter_mcgavin
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at 100 a month, your best bet is to find a local pawn shop or silver/coin dealer. problem is that most of these guys have a waiting line a mile long of guys with their hands out. if you hit the reliable dealers on ebay, you are pretty safe. Walmart (which I JUST found out about!) looks very good, too. Apmex (their source) is top notch.
It’s a hedge. It’s a hedge against what might happen and you only need to be 10% prepared to be 100% better off than the next guy. If you’re looking at a budget of $100 per month, my advice would be to buy $200 worth of silver bars every two months and go with a solid mint brand.
Personally, I’ve bought Sunshine mint and been tempted to pay the $20 to get the card that lets you verify the micro-stamping on on their bars. Again, my thinking is that a few $k in metals will buy you something when the balloon goes up. Will it make me Ritchie rich? No, will it give me some flexibility, yes.
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For ballon going up you want a skill or something that people really want. Can you repair small engines, cars, furniture? People will always want an easy way to make fire, stock cheap lighters? Filtering water might be a good business, although people will eventually learn how to boil. PMs will be “collected” by a small group in a post apocalyptic world…and they won’t be trading for them.
Now, for financial diversity and a hedge against inflation, I still like them just not as much as when tangible metal outweighed paper metal.
About “spot” pricing, isn’t that what banks and industrial buyers swap comdex (sp?) bars at?
Now, for financial diversity and a hedge against inflation, I still like them just not as much as when tangible metal outweighed paper metal.
About “spot” pricing, isn’t that what banks and industrial buyers swap comdex (sp?) bars at?
cubrock
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Probably showing my ignorance, but I thought paper was essentially a futures contract, so it’d be spot less a risk factor and a physical delivery cost. I think the physical delivery cost went to zero when they started making the contracts settleable in cash vs delivery of metal. @tanstaafl72555 has probably explained it before, but that doesn’t mean that I understood,
Well, this is what I was saying the difference between just a dollar collapse vs societal collapse. I'm better prepped for all out collapse than 99.99% of others. (I'm sure extreme preppers would consider me lacking but I can only do what I can do.) I'm to the point that I feel I'm in a good enough space on that side, that I want to start thinking about that hedge vs preps.
You are correct in that a futures contract is spot (actually PLUS a risk factor and delivery cost, but that is not critical). These contracts were made to LAY OFF risk of volatile prices for producers and manufacturers. Ustabe, if someone sold more contracts than you had physical units to deliver, some enterprising financier could buy up contracts and demand delivery. This produced a "short squeeze" where the shorts (those who sold what the did not have) were forced to buy back while prices were screaming upward in a panic. If you were really sneaky and savvy, and bought MORE contracts than there were physical units to deliver, this was called "cornering the market." It did not matter how high the prices went, there simply were not enough widgets out there to satisfy all the contracts people sold you. Back in the wild days of equities, this practice occurred much more frequently in equities, and not just commodity futures. The old days of financial barons were replete with some megamillionaire being caught short ghastly short, literally on his knees begging another tycoon not to ruin him, and hearing the cold hearted "he who sells what isn't his'n; must buy it back, or go to prison." (I think that was Vanderbilt, but can't remember).
The Hunt brothers (with some Saudi help) effectively cornered the market in 1978-1979. They had oodles of cash coming in from skyrocketing oil, and bought up every silver futures contract out there. It should be noted that they actually did this play earlier in soybeans. The russians stepped into the grains markets Christmas 1973 and beans went up (helped by a drought in 1977) over 1000 per cent over several years. The Hunts bought and bought and bought, as there were then, as now, WAY MORE PAPER CONTRACTS FOR SALE THAN ACTUALBUSHELS OF BEANS. The Hunts were buying, the Russians were buying, the grains were soaring, no rain was falling.... and when they called in to make another purchase, their brokers said "I am sorry but you have hit your 'position limits'" They did not even know that way back in the 70s, the exchanges LIMITED THE AMOUNT OF FUTURES ANY ONE PARTY COULD HOLD, partly to avoid attempted corners. The Hunts were phenomenally shrewd oil men, but not very sophisticated in the financial markets. They swore they weren't trying to corner anything, but Bunker Hunt was a Christian, and a hard money advocate, and a catastrophist, and was very very concerned about the future of the US Dollar. He just wanted to diversify, and was irritated that he had to limit his purchases. They eventually got rain and prices cooled, but Bunker's wheels upstairs were spinning. When he discovered the COMEX (gold and silver and precious metals were traded there), and saw the huge disparities between the number of contracts of derivatives (futures) traded vs the amount of physical metals held in warehouses, he started to slobber. Further, at the time THERE WERE NO POSITION LIMITS IN SILVER (or gold either, I think, but I am not sure.. I just know there were no limits on the white metal). He began buying. Silver was 2-3 dollars an ounce. He built up MASSIVE amounts of futures contracts. He then held a company picnic for Mesa Petroleum (he owned it) and had a special event of a SHOOTING CONTEST. From the thousands of employees, hundreds were ex military, ex cops etc. He selected about 400 of them got them NYC security licenses, bought them all Mossberg 590s, got some vans, and drove them up to the COMEX, marched up to the warehouse section, and demanded delivery! Talk about DRAMA! Today, they would never give it to him, but back then, they did (after several hours of palavering). He took the warehouse receipts, drove his convoy over to the warehouse, and took maybe 80% of the silver on hand, loaded it into the vans with the 400 armed men, drove to LaGuardia, put it on planes and BOOM! flew it to Switzerland. It was riotous, hilarious, shocking... the stuff of hollywood drama! Scared the living SNOT out of the board of the COMEX, who were all silver producers, all horrifically short, and all of whom knew they would be destroyed if all the longs that Hunt held were called. The price of silver exploded, of course. The big boys tried to stop it by selling large amounts of paper contracts, adding to the shorts they already had. They tried raising the "margin" (the amount of good faith deposit you have to put up to take a position in a futures contract)....100%$... 250%.... 1000%. Hunt swallowed them down and never even burped. Things began getting desperate in the markets. The big market in London essentially shut down. The PM market in Zurich went to a physicals/spot only market. Because the American futures market had DAILY MOVE LIMITS, the markets on open went straight "limit up" and just stayed there for days on end. You could not get in, or out of a position in many cases, and the guys heavily short (the owners of the Comex in particular) were losing hundreds of millions of dollars. Because of price limits, the market went "Contango" where the physicals price was FAR in excess of the futures price. Physical silver was approaching 50 dollars and the futures price was about 37 or so.... and there was NOTHING to stop the futures from rising to 50, and higher. There was true panic..... so the true believers in capitalism, free markets, liberty and the American way did what the big guys ALWAYS do... They ran to the government for help. In January of 1980 we redefined capitalism in the silver markets to make it that you could ONLY open a new contract in the silver markets to SELL... not to buy. No new long positions were allowed.... and they raised the margin again on silver by an unbelievable percentage. It was all to protect the American little people against the greedy exploiters, you see. They have OUR interests at heart!
The markets, with no new venues for buys, simply sold. The Hunts, as well had done what you should NEVER EVER EVER do (which I and every speculator who has ever scraped together enough cash to margin a trade has done! it is the lure of large returns and big money fast), which is that they borrowed against other assets to fund the margins on their long contracts. Now those borrowed funds would not even fund the moneys necessary to close out the collapsing prices, and the Hunts were ruined (to the glee of the scum that sat on the board of the COMEX, the investment bankers and the silver producers). To add insult to injury, the DOJ filed market manipulation charges against the Hunts (and their Saudi financiers). Finally, the COMEX fixed things where this could NEVER happen again. 1) they instituted position limits so that one person or one group of people could not amass such large market moving positions (that privilege is reserved for the investment banks, of course!) 2) they made it so that in the event that market destabilizing moves were occuring (they decide when that is), THEY HAVE THE PRIVILEGE TO REDEFINE THE CONTRACT AND PAY OUT IN DOLLARS, RATHER THAN DELIVER PRECIOUS METALS
I could write another book equalling the one I just scribbled out, describing the FLOOD of unsupported derivatives which have washed into the pm markets since then, but you frankly would not believe it if I told you... the ratio of physicals to paper contracts is eye popping. There is so little demand for oversight that no one actually knows. Some knowledgeable estimates are a high as 5,000 to one. That means for every ounce of silver out there, 5,000 ounces are "promised" in paper contracts. There has been an explosion of paper derivatives that are not straight up futures contracts, from leases, to "swaps" and myriad other financially engineered products. If you want a good review of just how bad this situation really is, you should grab a look at Andrew Macguire's work. He is a London silver dealer who has researched this stuff extensively, written volumes, and testified before the US Congress (who did precisely nothing).
Anyway the big boys think the game is rigged for them (it is). They think they are untouchable (they are). They also think that the situation will just go on forever this way because it has. When you run across hard core silver bugs like me, you are interacting with people who 1) know this history and 2) believe that in the end, markets always triumph over corrupt manipulators.
That is why I am long silver, and why I think you should be. When this manipulation goes sideways the reaction will be catastrophic.
Pay your money, take your chances.
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VERY VERY GOOD AND INFORMATIVE vid on some of the questions in this thread (and others) on "which is the best way to buy gold and silver?"
For the record, one of my very favorite cultural commentators helped put this out. Doug Casey, who has been "crisis investing" since the 1970s is always full of insight, a VERY smart guy, and is worth listening to. I am on his mailing list.
For the record, one of my very favorite cultural commentators helped put this out. Doug Casey, who has been "crisis investing" since the 1970s is always full of insight, a VERY smart guy, and is worth listening to. I am on his mailing list.
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I am not smart so do not consider this good advice. IMO metals are all the same. Gold, silver and ammo are all the same deal. Always be buying. As much as you can. Always.
Wife just asked what i want for our anniversary... of course i said a gun. I don't have that much she replied. I said silver and she agreed. I'm finally getting into the game. Late as usual, but at least I'm playing.
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Any time is a great time to start. Just stay in it and have fun.
Agreed.
Spot is irrelevant these days. With the dollar on the slide globally the “spot” is manipulated now so much it’s only pertinent to the fake virtual metals. The real tangible metal is worth more dollars than spot says now. Find what you want to buy whether it’s buffalos or Maples or whatever your heart is set on and then locate the cheapest source. Don’t forget to calculate shipping as that is often a deal breaker on small purchases. Remember…. The price of silver doesn’t go up and down it’s the constant in this scenario. The currency (dollar) moves up and down in relation to the metal. In this way of thinking it’s always a good time to buy just remember to buy the best deal. Also eagles and maples and such have huge premiums so you’re gonna pay way more. Stick to .999Fine stamped bullion rounds and bars and get the most bang for your buck.
@Darkhorse AAPMEX, BullionMax, SD Bullion, Money metals Exchange, Hero Bullion, Provident Metals, JM Bullion, Bullion Exchange, and the best one believe it or not Walmart.com for 1oz AAPMEX rounds by the 20 round tube. That’s enough and I’ll stop there but there’s tons more depending on whether you want bullion or coinage or junk silver or eagles or maples or odd hand crafted pieces for gifts etc etc.
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It is NOT a stupid question. First of all, you will almost always buy over spot. Spot is the price the big guys trade silver. I am assuming you are not buying or selling a million oz of silver or more at a pop, so you ain't getting spot prices. If you do, liquifiy your assets, mortgage your house, sell your car, wife and kids and rent your dog and buy every bit you can find, b/c you can turn it all around and make 10-30% in one day on that deal!
If you are like us little schmucks, the question you will be asking is how much OVER spot will I pay? The answer to that depends on what the "feel" of the market is. Used to be, I tried to get silver at 5% over spot. I fear those days are long gone. Right now, anything under 10% is a fabulous deal, and the "normal" premium is 20% or more, depending on the type of silver. See, the different types of silver, whether it is American Eagles (most popular, but thus a STUPID high premium over spot!), Silver Dollars (a healthy "numismatic" or collector premium), block/bar/coin .999 silver, junk silver (us dimes, quarters, halves pre 1965 and some later kennedy halves)... all of these have different premiums over spot. Those premiums all fluctuate with the price of silver.
If you are a neurotic geek like me, always compelled to research something to death, you can look at the spreads between spot and actual silver delivery vehicles, what the trends in those are, compare the trends in silver, compare to the gold/silver ratio and its trend, and then find out what the big dealers and local dealers are selling.......
Or you could just follow the advice from some guy (I think it was this thread) who turned me on to buying .999 silver bullion coins minted by APMEX (a VERY reputable dealer, and one of the very biggest) from Walmart online. There are also lots of reputable dealers who all sell on ebay and you can check the latest junk prices with them.
Good luck and pm me if you have questions here. I have been maniacally yodeling in here (and on the prior board which birthed this one) about silver since at least 2007. Just buy it. In 15 years you won't care what the premium over spot was.
If you are buying to invest it doesn't matter what size you buy, but large bars are easier to stack and move. If you are buying for a SHTF situation for trading currency, smaller pieces are easier to use. What are you gonna buy at the market with a Kilo brick of silver?
cubrock
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I like those bars that are 50 or 100 individual grams that are connected and can be snapped off.
When i was a little kid i remember hearing my grandpa talking about being able to break a link off of his gold bracelet and being able to trade it for food or bullets. I thought he was out of his mind... All these years later i get it.
When i was a little kid i remember hearing my grandpa talking about being able to break a link off of his gold bracelet and being able to trade it for food or bullets. I thought he was out of his mind... All these years later i get it.
Was a story of a bellhop in Weimar Germany who had a inheritance of a 5 oz bar of gold... He wound up BUYING the hotel where he had worked when inflation went wild with that 5 oz bar he inherited.
Thisis a long video by someone I really respect. It is great to give you an OVERALL perspective on why I am so gloom and doom about our financial system and why precious metals are a MUST.
They sent me a link for a credit card that you can use rewards points on gold and silver.
What are yalls opinions on this?
What are yalls opinions on this?
The Bullion Card APMEX
The Bullion Card is here! Invest in Precious Metals with everyday spend when you check out. Use your points to buy Gold & Silver at APMEX.
thebullioncard.apmex.com
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Get a card that gives you back more than 1% on purchases, and use that cash to buy whatever you want, including PMs.
Webster1967
Well-Known Member
So I’ve battled precious metal investing for years! And didn’t know anything about Silver at Walmart……I mean really!!!
But my main question is if it gets back to a coin situation will all known coins be accepted? I wonder if there is still loyalty to only Buffaloes, Eagles, Maples, and Krugerrands? Seriously might get some from WallyWorld .
But my main question is if it gets back to a coin situation will all known coins be accepted? I wonder if there is still loyalty to only Buffaloes, Eagles, Maples, and Krugerrands? Seriously might get some from WallyWorld .
That bar in the pic my wife got me was direct from apmex. It was $25 but after taxes and shipping it came to $37. If Walmart does free shipping, it might be a better deal.
Walmart sells stuff from APMEX. They are THE most trusted vendor. When I checked, the premium over spot was the same as you get from Apmex direct. Good luck.
The thing I can't quite wrap my arms around is this: silver is silver but it seems some silver is more (for the want of a better word) "legitimate." So, it seems to me that a 1 ounce coin of U.S. Mint-made silver (i.e. "Silver eagles") would be more recognizable to someone "in the sticks" than say a regular silver round or a Mexican Libertad or a Canadian Maple Leaf or a UK Britannia or an Australian coin, etc. "Hell, that ain't even real silver! It's made in Mexico/Canada/the UK/Australian/etc.!"
Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems the safest bet is to buy 1 ounce U.S. Mint "Silver Eagles." Anything else may be perceived as being fake/counterfeit/"less good" than Silver Eagles in a SHTF scenario. Also, a 1 ounce coin is worth enough to where you can buy things of value (i.e. in calm times, 1 ounce of silver is the equivalent to $21.11 as I write this so a little bit of silver goes a long way). Also, good luck trying to convince "Bubba" during a SHTF event that a 1964 Kennedy 50-cent piece is 90% silver or that the later 1965-1970 Kennedy 50-cent piece is 40% silver - if he doesn't know already, to him it's a 50-cent piece and, therefore, is virtually worthless.
I certainly don't have the answers but I welcome opinions from the silver cognoscenti among you!
Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems the safest bet is to buy 1 ounce U.S. Mint "Silver Eagles." Anything else may be perceived as being fake/counterfeit/"less good" than Silver Eagles in a SHTF scenario. Also, a 1 ounce coin is worth enough to where you can buy things of value (i.e. in calm times, 1 ounce of silver is the equivalent to $21.11 as I write this so a little bit of silver goes a long way). Also, good luck trying to convince "Bubba" during a SHTF event that a 1964 Kennedy 50-cent piece is 90% silver or that the later 1965-1970 Kennedy 50-cent piece is 40% silver - if he doesn't know already, to him it's a 50-cent piece and, therefore, is virtually worthless.
I certainly don't have the answers but I welcome opinions from the silver cognoscenti among you!
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My thing has always been if it comes to the time where silver replaces money, you will most likely be trading it for food or bullets.
Even then that will have to be to somebody who thinks that having silver is more valuable than having food or bullets.
I'm very new to this... obviously.
Even then that will have to be to somebody who thinks that having silver is more valuable than having food or bullets.
I'm very new to this... obviously.
You have it right, the premium differs based on the level of trust or credibility. You wouldn’t pay the same for a random lump of silvery colored metal as you would for a silver coin that was minted, what you’re describing is just finer details of that.
As for selling in the sticks, that implies a SHTF scenario where someone in rural america will accept silver for something of his that you want, I think that scenario is unlikely.
Silver is not SHTF money for me as I'll likely be dead when that happens. But let's compare it with Savings Bonds:
I recently cashed in some 30-year EE bonds because they had fully matured. I then looked at the sale price of the bonds and the spot price of silver in 1992-1993 when the bonds were purchased. I figured out that buying silver instead would have yielded ~30% greater return over 30 years. AND, factor in the PIA of cashing the bonds, the taxes I'll have to pay on the interest, and the fact that they are worth ZERO to anyone until they've been processed by a bank and Silver becomes even more attractive.
I recently cashed in some 30-year EE bonds because they had fully matured. I then looked at the sale price of the bonds and the spot price of silver in 1992-1993 when the bonds were purchased. I figured out that buying silver instead would have yielded ~30% greater return over 30 years. AND, factor in the PIA of cashing the bonds, the taxes I'll have to pay on the interest, and the fact that they are worth ZERO to anyone until they've been processed by a bank and Silver becomes even more attractive.
I am thankful most every day for guys telling me about some dude named "Ron Paul" back in 1980. He had a chief of staff named "Gary North" and there was a whole school of scholars (sometimes abrasive, condescending and brutal in their reasoning) who told us over and over that our entire political, educational, and economic system was corrupt, built on lies, and doomed to collapse. That was over 40 years ago, and we have not collapsed. However, the fissures that cause collapse have gotten deeper, wider and the tremors have increased in intensity.... and the refusal to address those root issues have guaranteed that the correction -when it comes- will be more intense than we thought possible.
Silver is a good bet either way. Either we correct and prosper and avoid collapse or we collapse and correct and prosper. I think the former is no longer open to us. Maybe I am wrong. Hope so.
Webster1967
Well-Known Member
I actually heard Dave Ramsey say lead ( meaning ammo) was a better investment than gold or silver in a financial collapse!
Besides ammo I’ve been thinking seriously about buying Vodka and storing it for a form of financial revenue/ tradeable goods. 🤔
Besides ammo I’ve been thinking seriously about buying Vodka and storing it for a form of financial revenue/ tradeable goods. 🤔