OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Wow. Just.... wow. He's got more invested in that overpriced wrench than he does the gun.
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So I'm getting a Russian MOSIN and I want to....(edit: pics added)
- Thread starter two fingers
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Yes, he can, and I appreciate the fact that he wants to do it to honor his uncle.
I can't help but be reminded of what happened after WWII, when surplus warbirds were being sold for next to nothing. Guys were buying them, trimming them down and modifying them to race. It was very impressive seeing the old birds flying the pylons at speeds well over 400 mph. But, today, those old warbirds are are becoming more rare, and are now worth more money in their original configurations. And for old guys like me that grew up reading about the Flying Tigers, 30 Seconds Over Tokyo, and the Mighty 8th Airforce, it gives me goosebumps to see and hear the heritage flights at the airshows now, with the old warbirds in their original shapes. I think about the men that flew them in the service to their countries.
When I hold my WWII Garand or M1 Carbine, or even a Mosin or Mauser, I have to wonder about the men behind them and their struggles.
I have no problem with modifications to the Mosin in question, but I do recommend that you don't do anything that can't easily be undone. Save all the old pieces so that it can be put back into its original configuration later.
I am generally in the "leave it alone" group when it comes to old military rifles. Especially if the donor rifle is something rare or special (which most Mosins are not). But I do have a soft spot for old, really nicely done professional (not Bubba) conversions that were done in the 50s and 60s when these old rifles were not seen as rare nor particularly historical - and were an economical alternative to purchasing a mass produced commercial hunting rifle.
A buddy of mine owns the Mosin in the picture below. It was a wedding gift he got from his father in law. His father in law was a custom gunsmith who first served as a machinist in the bowels of a Navy ship throughout WW2. At some point in the early 60's, he took a surplus Mosin, stripped it down, and built it into a nice custom hunting rifle. It is a very nice rifle now, and it is somewhat unique because most of those old custom conversions were done to Mauser actions rather than Mosins.
A buddy of mine owns the Mosin in the picture below. It was a wedding gift he got from his father in law. His father in law was a custom gunsmith who first served as a machinist in the bowels of a Navy ship throughout WW2. At some point in the early 60's, he took a surplus Mosin, stripped it down, and built it into a nice custom hunting rifle. It is a very nice rifle now, and it is somewhat unique because most of those old custom conversions were done to Mauser actions rather than Mosins.
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
The flamed maple on that stock is freakin beautiful. I would be proud to own that thing too.
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm probably going to put way too much into the gun. But I'm getting the gun, AND 980 rounds of ammo for free. So by the time a put (let's just say) $150 +/- into a stock, $150 +/- into a brass stacker scope mount (brilliant idea by the way), and some sort of optic for it, I'll have less than $500 into a good rifle and quite a bit of ammo. And all of it will be reversible for the milsurp purists.
Plus it belonged to my favorite uncle so there's that.
I remember when I got my Mosin, I considered the same "modernization" of it. Iraqvet88 or whatever his name is has a complete walk through vid on YouTube of the process. Dunhams, BTW, usually keeps the Archangel stock and some other parts. In the end, when it came to cutting the bolt handle and barrel. Then crowning the barrel, I decided to just keep it stock (I don't have access to the proper tools). I say go for it, IF you can totally modernize it like Iraqvet did. If it's just the stock and nothing more, I say leave it be. These rifles are undeniably going up in value, and they will be worth more in stock form than with a plastic stock. Good luck, and keep us posted!
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
What little reading I've done said the Archangel needed no mods for the existing bolt. And the brass stacker scope mount uses the same pins as the rear iron sight. So, hopefully, both require zero mods to the reciever/barrel. Just a drop-in with a couple screws from the old stock.
Am I way off on that?
I gotcha. That must be something new, or something I missed. The whole thing with the bolt handle was it would hit a scope that was mounted traditionally. I assume the brass stacker either mounts the scope way farther, or high enough that the handle doesn't make contact. The barrel cutting was because the barrel looked super long in the stock he used in the vids, but isn't necessary. I say go for it. If you aren't cutting anything, you can always just change it back to stock form. Keep us updated!
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Yep. Brass Stacker sets the scope high enough to miss the bolt. It ain't cheap. But I like it.
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Alright, update. Here are the markings on it amd some of the features.
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OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
So is it something "special"? Or is it Bubba worthy? (Again, I wouldn't do anything that isn't reversible.)
The numbers I can see are matching, what about the number on the magazines bottom?
One mod I do to my Mosins is install the M Carbo trigger kit. They’re easy to install, make a significant difference in trigger pull, and they’re only $20.
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Attachments
Looks like the magazine # doesn't match (force matched when re-arsenaled, maybe), but that's not too bad. It's much better that the bolt & receiver #'s match - much better chancce that the headspacing is good.
As for the top of the receiver - you have bracketed the part I wanted to see! The top of the receiver in front of the bolt/ejection port and behind the rear sight has several markings, including the arsenal (Tula & Ishevsk are most common) & date it was cranked off the line. For example, in this pic:
it looks like an arrow in a triangle -- Ishevsk arsenal. (If it were Tula, it would be a star) This is fine, but some consider the Tulas to be "better." If the date is during WWII, it's going to be less precise (fit & finish, not necessarily accuracy) than a pre-war model because they were cranking them out as fast as possible.
So, from what I can see, I'd say you're leaning towards nothin' too special. Purists will prolly continue to shout you down, but if you're not carving your initials in the stock & welding a Swiss Army knife to the muzzle, a few temporary mods won't change its value (IMO).
As for the top of the receiver - you have bracketed the part I wanted to see!
The top of the receiver in front of the bolt/ejection port and behind the rear sight has several markings, including the arsenal (Tula & Ishevsk are most common) & date it was cranked off the line. For example, in this pic:it looks like an arrow in a triangle -- Ishevsk arsenal. (If it were Tula, it would be a star) This is fine, but some consider the Tulas to be "better." If the date is during WWII, it's going to be less precise (fit & finish, not necessarily accuracy) than a pre-war model because they were cranking them out as fast as possible.
So, from what I can see, I'd say you're leaning towards nothin' too special. Purists will prolly continue to shout you down, but if you're not carving your initials in the stock & welding a Swiss Army knife to the muzzle, a few temporary mods won't change its value (IMO).
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Looks like the magazine # doesn't match (force matched when re-arsenaled, maybe), but that's not too bad. It's much better that the bolt & receiver #'s match - much better chancce that the headspacing is good.
As for the top of the receiver - you have bracketed the part I wanted to see!
View attachment 304051
it looks like an arrow in a triangle -- Ishevsk arsenal. (If it were Tula, it would be a star) This is fine, but some consider the Tulas to be "better." If the date is during WWII, it's going to be less precise (fit & finish, not necessarily accuracy) than a pre-war model because they were cranking them out as fast as possible.
So, from what I can see, I'd say you're leaning towards nothin' too special. Purists will prolly continue to shout you down, but if you're not carving your initials in the stock & welding a Swiss Army knife to the muzzle, a few temporary mods won't change its value (IMO).
Ah. Sorry. I thought I had one of these in the first batch.
Ooh, that's kinda nice! Tula! And pre-war. And receiver # matches bolt & butt plate. Only the magazine bottom cover has been replaced. Definitely don't make permanent mods, IMO.
7.62x54r.net is a good place for info:
7.62x54r.net is a good place for info:
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I have some reading to do.
One thing I know is that my late uncle shot this rifle a bit as it sits. He usually made more ergonomic stocks for his milsurp guns. But I don't have his woodworking talents. What to do...
They are fun guns to shoot, at least the 91/30’s. They have enough weight to reduce the 7.62x54 recoil. I’ve got a couple M44’s that’ll rattle your eye teeth!
There's a Century imported faked PU on the shelf at a local shop. Comes with a spam can for $450. I'm kinda tempted. The action and the trigger on it are the best I've ever felt on a Mosin, but part of me wants to kick myself for even considering spending $450 on a Mosin.
You wouldn't be. The spam can is worth half that.
@two fingers the big star means it was made at the Tula Arsenal, The square with an X in it is the re-arsenal stamp from 2nd GRAU Arsenal in Kiev.
That's a really clean example and not the most common variety but not rare either. The stock looks refinished to me but it's hard to tell from the photos. And the CAI billboard is very unfortunate.
I have improved the trigger on a couple just by polishing the machine marks out of them. They're stupid simple and hard to mess up. Have at it with a little 600 grit and see if you can improve it from 'Rusty Truck Spring with sand in it' to 'smooth but mushy'.
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OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
What does "CIA billboard" mean?
It's that abomination of a rollmark Century stamped into the left side of the receiver. Very unfortunate. Older imports had discreet light stamps at the end of the barrel.
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
Ah. So it doesn't mean something is wrong with the rifle, just that the stamp is the ugly version.
Years ago I got the bug and bought a piece of history.. It was in really nice shape with a clean bore, the bluing was mostly intact and the stock had obviously been refinished because it was just too shiny to be original. Bought my self a spam can of old ammo and brought it out to the range. The first thing I noticed was that the bolt was hard to operate and figured that some polishing might help make it a bit smoother and loaded up some rounds. Set up a paper plate at 100 yards and squeezed off the first shot.. HOLY SHOOT, this thing kicks like a mule. Took another and the pain started, one more and I was done and I mean done. Now,, I did have a torn rotator cuff in that shoulder but my 7.62x39 didnt bother it ? I then realized that I was never going to shoot this rifle ever again. Man, I was bummed so I sold it. Paid $75 and sold it for $100 and that's what they were going for then. Thinking back, I should have kept it. It was a good looking rifle and like I said , a piece of history and would have made a good looking wall hanger. Just in case anyone is wondering, no paper plates were harmed in that outing.
The $20 slip on recoil pads from Walmart make these old war horses very tolerable to shoot. I’ve had rotator cuff surgery and neck fusion, and these pads are GTG.
mikehrl
Well-Known Member
A 1937 Tula may shoot good for a Mosin, especially since the bolt and receiver match. It may be even older than 1937 but you would have to look under the tang. As far as Mosins go, it would be a good one to keep intact. I would definitely shoot it first, start at 25 or 50 yards. It will probably shoot high (4-8 inches) at that range. Some of them shoot better than you can hold because of the recoil. Because it's a prewar Tula it is one of the more desirable ones, you can only guess where that rifle has been, how many patriots of the motherland carried it and what action it saw. Let us know how it shoots after you range test it.
OP
two fingers
Well-Known Member
I like the explanation of your perspective. “Do way more to it than I should”
Most have responded and already covered all sides and opinions. I spent a ton of effort and cash trying to “make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear”. I actually did it twice! I like the Mosins because of the history, price, and still “relatively” low cost to shoot. I’m not afraid to shoot corrosive surplus ammo. I know how to neutralize the “salts” with warm ammonia water scrubbed down the bore and then clean and oil like normal. I openly admit that I could have had a nice heavy barrel 308, 30-06, or 6.5 etc for the money I ended up spending. But to your point, I did it my way and enjoyed putting it together to see if I could. Neither were “special” (more valuable) models like a Fin M39 etc. Both were drilled and tapped for the “rock solid industries” scope mount base, both had the bolt handles cut off and welded on low profile bolt handles that will clear the scope. One also has a nice “D” ring welded to the back of the bolt to allow ease of applying the safety or for deco king. The other has the Timney trigger so it has its own conventional safety lever. One is mounted in an archangel stock and one is in a nice montecarlo style wood stock from Boyd’s that I fitted and finished to my liking. I put a Timney trigger on one and just polished and improved the original trigger on the other. I shortened the barrels to 24” and had them recrowned. One with a muzzle brake fitted. If it’s a run of the mill 91/30 model, the standard loooong barrel looks pretty silly in a sporty stock and the potential harmonics of a really long unsupported barrel don’t do any favors to accuracy. Obviously, like others have said, make sure the bore and rifling is good before doing anything. As well as the head spacing of the bolt face/chamber. My completed “project rifles” will typically shoot 3.5” groups at 100 yards with surplus ammo and a best of 2” groups with match ammo. So not terrible but not tack drivers either. Every time I look at them, I know a Remington, Savage or perhaps even a Bergara could sit there in their place. But “anybody can have that.” Right?
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@two fingers
carolinafirearmsforum.com
You could get one already dolled up, and leave this unchanged. Or, change stocks, and play around with it.
SOLD - WTS - Mosin Nagant Scout Rifle Project
So I was building up an inexpensive Scout rifle using a Mosin action and never got around to shortening/re-threading the barrel. Thinning out the herd so this is up for sale. Mosin Nagant in Promag Archangel stock, scout scope mount, Weaver Scout scope, extra mags. All for $450. Priced to sell...
carolinafirearmsforum.com
You could get one already dolled up, and leave this unchanged. Or, change stocks, and play around with it.
Zal
Active Member
Nyet, rifle is fine. To improve it slightly I'd just do what this guy does
If you do do any mods keep the original parts, makes the rifle keep its value if you sell it. I've got a big heavy turk mauser and although some part of me wants to shave a pound off, the other takes comfort in the bayoneting and bashing ability
If you do do any mods keep the original parts, makes the rifle keep its value if you sell it. I've got a big heavy turk mauser and although some part of me wants to shave a pound off, the other takes comfort in the bayoneting and bashing ability
Zal
Active Member
Bolshevik tomato stake is my new favorite name for a mosin