Spark plug wear
- Thread starter Diablos
- Start date
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OP
Pretty sure honda calls for a 100 interval
OP
At the cost of those babies, it's good that there are only four.
Yea no kidding, they're like 8 bucks a pop
Teacher
Well-Known Member
Can you take some pics of the tips? The threads shouldn't be black like that. Looks like oil. Did they smell like oil or gas when you took them out?
Here's a pic of a NGK Iridium that I took out of my car after 35.000 miles. This was after my car overheated due to a coolant problem. As you can see they don't look nearly as bad as your's so something is definitely wrong.
Here's a pic of a NGK Iridium that I took out of my car after 35.000 miles. This was after my car overheated due to a coolant problem. As you can see they don't look nearly as bad as your's so something is definitely wrong.
- What year make model and engine size? Did you change them or have someone else do it last time. If you did it did you adjust the gap? What grade of gas do you use?
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Teacher
Well-Known Member
Another question... have you checked the oil? If the car is consuming oil then it could be due to cylinder deactivation and variable valve timing. Honda has released Technical Service Bulletins that address this problem.
I've been reading about this problem & here's a quote from an article I found:
"GM, Toyota, Honda and other manufacturers have issued Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) concerning excessive oil consumption. Most of these problems relate to cylinder deactivation and variable valve timing.
The main culprit in these problems is vacuum generated in the cylinders sucking engine oil past the rings and into the combustion chamber. On vehicles with cylinder deactivation, the deactivated cylinder has a negative pressure and would draw oil droplets in the crankcase past the ring and eventually into the converter. This has happened on some GM and Honda engines.
On some vehicles with variable valve timing (typically on the exhaust and intake cams), the valve timing could produce higher than normal vacuum pressures that could suck oil past the rings. This was the case for some recent Toyota, Honda and GM models. The customer would report increased oil consumption that exceeded a quart every 1,000 miles.
While the oil getting past the rings is bad enough, the oil trapped in the rings can become carbonized and cause damage to the cylinder walls. This can lead to even more damage and more oil consumption. In some cases, the oil consumption would result in a low-oil condition that would cause damage to the bearing surfaces.
The oil consumption problem must be solved first before the spark plugs are replaced, and in some cases, the converter will need to be replaced. The most common fix is new engine management software that needs to be reflashed onto the ECM/PCM, which is designed to reduce negative cylinder pressures. Some manufacturers have also released special splash shields and oil valves to alleviate the issue. These problems may occur on vehicles with as little as 20,000 miles."
I've been reading about this problem & here's a quote from an article I found:
"GM, Toyota, Honda and other manufacturers have issued Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) concerning excessive oil consumption. Most of these problems relate to cylinder deactivation and variable valve timing.
The main culprit in these problems is vacuum generated in the cylinders sucking engine oil past the rings and into the combustion chamber. On vehicles with cylinder deactivation, the deactivated cylinder has a negative pressure and would draw oil droplets in the crankcase past the ring and eventually into the converter. This has happened on some GM and Honda engines.
On some vehicles with variable valve timing (typically on the exhaust and intake cams), the valve timing could produce higher than normal vacuum pressures that could suck oil past the rings. This was the case for some recent Toyota, Honda and GM models. The customer would report increased oil consumption that exceeded a quart every 1,000 miles.
While the oil getting past the rings is bad enough, the oil trapped in the rings can become carbonized and cause damage to the cylinder walls. This can lead to even more damage and more oil consumption. In some cases, the oil consumption would result in a low-oil condition that would cause damage to the bearing surfaces.
The oil consumption problem must be solved first before the spark plugs are replaced, and in some cases, the converter will need to be replaced. The most common fix is new engine management software that needs to be reflashed onto the ECM/PCM, which is designed to reduce negative cylinder pressures. Some manufacturers have also released special splash shields and oil valves to alleviate the issue. These problems may occur on vehicles with as little as 20,000 miles."
jmccracken1214
Well-Known Member
My 2012 Honda calls for the super iridium's or whatever they are. $18 a piece is the cheapest. After shipping it cost me $82 to change my own plugs. In a civic.
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Yada, yada, yada... look up NGK marine plugs and get back to me (4+4+6 is all it takes)...
Yeah, this..
OP
Threads could be due to anti-seize, I always put a litte on.
Vehicle is a 2010 honda civic 1.8l
Gap was good when installed and 30 thousandths out on the bad ones
Usually use regular grade, but thinking its time to put mid-grade in it
Have never noticed oil consumption and I've only ever used full synthetic, usually penzoil
The insulators do not show ash deposits, which it would if it was consuming oil.
What I see is excessive gap, and discoloration that indicates that the plugs have been overheated. The insulators at the tip look about right though, which would not indicate a lean mixture.
Any chance that the engine overheated at some point since the last plug change?
What I see is excessive gap, and discoloration that indicates that the plugs have been overheated. The insulators at the tip look about right though, which would not indicate a lean mixture.
Any chance that the engine overheated at some point since the last plug change?
Did you put a gap gauge on them before installing?
https://www.densoproducts.com/learning-center/article/192/should-i-gap-my-plugs
Fine Wire Plugs
Spark Plug manufacturers typically warn against gapping fine wire spark plugs due to the fragile nature of their electrodes. They say a fine wire plug will outperform a Standard spark plug, even if not properly gapped. However, Denso understands a plug can only operate to its optimum potential if properly gapped. Proper gapping technique should be followed with any spark plug, but special care should be taken with Fine Wire plugs. Denso will not warranty a plug who’s Center Electrode is snapped during gapping.
https://www.densoproducts.com/learning-center/article/192/should-i-gap-my-plugs
Fine Wire Plugs
Spark Plug manufacturers typically warn against gapping fine wire spark plugs due to the fragile nature of their electrodes. They say a fine wire plug will outperform a Standard spark plug, even if not properly gapped. However, Denso understands a plug can only operate to its optimum potential if properly gapped. Proper gapping technique should be followed with any spark plug, but special care should be taken with Fine Wire plugs. Denso will not warranty a plug who’s Center Electrode is snapped during gapping.
What type of tool?
Possible to have broken the wire off and made them look like copper core plugs.
It awefully hard to have normal running conditions and fuel to wear down just the wire tip like the pic is suggesting when all else looks absolutely normal.
I happen to have a Honda van with 184,000 miles on it here in the shop. The plugs are close to 70,000 mile straight out of the box, dont bother with the gap. Just make sure the prong isnt closed in.
Dang near the same heat range plug
Dang near the same heat range plug
OP
Just one of those cheap tools, loOKs like a 50 cent piece. Maybe cracked them and didn't know it? Guess I won't check them going forward.
This sounds like the issue, that type of gaper is a no no on those plugs. There are long straight ones avalible that have a slot in them that grabs the lower electrode to bend it without touching the wire. Ngk plugs come with a plastic sleave over the end to protect the factory set gap from changing if dropped or mishandled. If you ever drop a plug on concrete just go ahead and throw it away and buy another, I have seen engines ruined when cracked plugs come apart and drop a piece of ceramic in the cylinder bore.
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OP
They must be pretty sensitive, I only use it like a feeler gauge. But thanks for the tip
fellers, won't check em that way any more.
Diablos,, Ive been a Honda tech for the past 38 years and I gotta tell you, those plugs you threw up a photo look like they have had close to 100K miles on them.. The black carbon tracks on the threads, the worn down center and side electrodes and the heat discoloration on the ceramic insulator look just like all other hundreds of plugs Ive removed at 100K miles..
Member Mike Overlay's photo of a 70 K mile plug, looks pretty close to what its supposed to. It was probably a little shy of the 70 k mark due to lack of discoloration on the ceramic. Either way,, that one looks right..
Member Teacher's photo is typical of a plug that's been overheated due to lack of coolant like he admitted. Notice that the electrodes are the proper shape and size, its just been baked clean.
Member Mike Overlay's photo of a 70 K mile plug, looks pretty close to what its supposed to. It was probably a little shy of the 70 k mark due to lack of discoloration on the ceramic. Either way,, that one looks right..
Member Teacher's photo is typical of a plug that's been overheated due to lack of coolant like he admitted. Notice that the electrodes are the proper shape and size, its just been baked clean.