Swapping triggers…what’s the difference?

[BigWaylon]

I’ve built the lower for every AR I own. Let’s just say it’s more than a dozen, so I have at least a little experience to how they go together. I recently decided to swap out the triggers in most of them to match.

Ordered eight last week and got to work this morning. The first five were simply…pop the two FCG pins out, remove the trigger, install the new one. On the sixth one, the hammer came out as before, but the trigger wouldn’t come out. Every build I have used a PSA LBK, so the triggers I’m removing should all be the same. I had to remove the safety to get the trigger out. The last two had the same issue.

Not sure what the odds are I would pick 5 that worked one way, and then 3 after that that worked a different way. I know there are low shelf and high shelf lowers, but I wouldn’t think that’s the difference? I didn’t pull them back out of the safe to look once I had that thought.

Is there something different between lowers that would cause this? The three lowers were a PSA, a DPMS, and a Bushmaster. The five were a Spikes, a Mega, a Seekins, and two Aeros…so no overlap in the groups.

 

[Timfoilhat]

I'd bet there's less clearance under the safety in some lowers. Like they didn't mill it as deep so there's a thicker bottom to the lower.

 

[Bocephus]

Probably a slight difference in clearances. Obviously not true for every lower but I have had to remove the safety on each of my lowers when replacing the trigger. I’ve never had one (Aero, PWS, SOLGW, Spike’s, BPM, CMMG) where I could replace it with the safety still installed.

 

[BigWaylon]

maybe I’ll pull the old triggers back out (I put them back in the bags the new ones came in, and wrote which build they came out of on the label) and double-check they all are the same length…

 

[BigWaylon]

I'd bet there's less clearance under the safety in some lowers. Like they didn't mill it as deep so there's a thicker bottom to the lower.

Good theory, except the ones that came out pulled straight up between the front of the lower and the safety. If it got angled at all, it wouldn’t come out. On the ones that didn’t, I couldn’t pull them straight up or at an angle.

(or at least that’s what I think I remember trying)

 

[Timfoilhat]

You trying this with the safety on or off?

 

[Tim]

Same safety on all of them?

Like @Bocephus said, I've had to remove the safety on every trigger I've ever replaced.

 

[BigWaylon]

You trying this with the safety on or off?

I moved it back and forth on each one trying to get it out.

I don’t actually remember if it was on or off when the first ones came out. I do know I had to rotate it to off for the hammer pin to align with the holes.

 

[BigWaylon]

Same safety on all of them?

Like @Bocephus said, I've had to remove the safety on every trigger I've ever replaced.

Same PSA build kits, so I’d assume so…but no idea if they changed something. Maybe I’ll pull two out in the morning and look, at the same time I get the old triggers out.

I’ll post up what I find in case anybody wants to know.

I did figure out on the last two I could loosen the grip screw just enough that the safety detent no long engaged it, and slide the selector out without having to actually remove the grip screw. (Always hate trying to get that screw inserted again)

 

[beamernc]

What new triggers did you go with? Single stage or 2 stage?

 

[Get Off My Lawn]

I recently decided to swap out the triggers in most of them to match.

Every build I have used a PSA LBK, so the triggers I’m removing should all be the same.

Is there something different between lowers that would cause this? The three lowers were a PSA, a DPMS, and a Bushmaster. The five were a Spikes, a Mega, a Seekins, and two Aeros…so no overlap in the groups.

The CFF world wants to know- With the investment of all the NFA items and stamps, you went with PSA LPK triggers, even in Spikes, Mega, Seekins, and Aeros lowers?

 

[kcult]

Same safety on all of them?

Like @Bocephus said, I've had to remove the safety on every trigger I've ever replaced.

That's been my experience, as well.

 

[BigWaylon]

The CFF world wants to know- With the investment of all the NFA items and stamps, you went with PSA LPK triggers, even in Spikes, Mega, Seekins, and Aeros lowers?

Yep. Problem is I wanted everything to be the same as I got into ARs. So everything I built had the same trigger, stock, grip, even optic.

Didn’t matter if I picked up a 9mm, 5.56, 22LR, or even 50 Beowulf…they’d all feel the same. (Ok, so the 22 was a different trigger, but it was just the factory 15-22 piece).

I’ve since changed some of the optics and ditched some AFG2s….but haven’t gotten around to messing with triggers.

The reason I have the variety of lowers I do is I tried to never have two of the same design.

 

[Get Off My Lawn]

Yep. Problem is I wanted everything to be the same as I got into ARs. So everything I built had the same trigger, stock, grip, even optic.

Didn’t matter if I picked up a 9mm, 5.56, 22LR, or even 50 Beowulf…they’d all feel the same. (Ok, so the 22 was a different trigger, but it was just the factory 15-22 piece).

I’ve since changed some of the optics and ditched some AFG2s….but haven’t gotten around to messing with triggers.

The reason I have the variety of lowers I do is I tried to never have two of the same design.

What trigger won the Waylon lottery?
I put a Geissele National Match in my 6.5 Grendel Mega Arms build, two others have Geissele SSA-E, a CMC, KMC, and an "I don't remember".

 

[barf]

Same safety on all of them?

Like @Bocephus said, I've had to remove the safety on every trigger I've ever replaced.

This is what I was going to ask. I had the same issue with a KAC safety and a Timney drop in.

 

[BigWaylon]

What trigger won the Waylon lottery?
I put a Geissele National Match in my 6.5 Grendel Mega Arms build, two others have Geissele SSA-E, a CMC, KMC, and an "I don't remember".

Nothing fancy. I’ve never tried one of the high dollar triggers, because I didn’t want to buy as many as I’d need. So I grabbed the EPT (Enhanced Polished Trigger) from PSA.



The good news is some (maybe 6?) of the kits I bought over the last few years actually included that trigger, so I didn’t even have to buy new ones for those builds. Still need a few more for some ARs, and two for my 15-22 SBR and pistol.

 

[Average Joe]

I’ve ran into this at work. Never got a straight answer from the manufacture. So I chalked it up to some parts were made on Monday mornings and others were made on Friday afternoons and they just didn’t fit the same. I mean they are the lowest bidder for a reason. Sorry I meant they were the lowest bidder for a reason. Now we are using Barnes Precision Machine rifles and couldn’t be happier. Way better than the company beginning with S and W.

 

[CZfool68]

The triggers I’ve changed have all been done on mil-spec lowers from the same manufacturer. Zero issues. I’m either lucky or picked a good product. But my quantity of lowers and triggers is probably lower than most. 😒

 

[BigWaylon]

The triggers I’ve changed have all been done on mil-spec lowers from the same manufacturer. Zero issues. I’m either lucky or picked a good product. But my quantity of lowers and triggers is probably lower than most. 😒

Could you change any of them without removed the safety selector? Or did you not even try?

 

[CZfool68]

Could you change any of them without removed the safety selector? Or did you not even try?

I’ve always removed the safety selector as that is what the instructions told me to do on the first one I ever did. So that is just how I’ve done it. Not being an expert by any means I try to follow directions.

 

[BigWaylon]

I see no obvious differences…

 

[BigWaylon]

But proof it can be done…I went ahead and removed the hammer, as well as backing the second pin out enough to remove the disconnector, just so the video was shorter.

 

[BigWaylon]

Lo and behold…the trigger came out of the second one just fine today. Maybe I wasn’t pushing it forward yesterday. I paid close attention to how I got it out of the first one (video above) and made sure to do that on the second. Weird. But not weird enough I’m going to get the other two out that didn’t work. However, I did try to put the old trigger back in this one and had no problems.

So I think the issue was my method. Cartridge type triggers (or whatever the term is) might not work. But standard triggers seem to be removable with the safety in place. At least that’s now my experience over the last 24 hours.

 

[BigWaylon]

And for anybody that cares…

PSA AR15/PA10 Enhanced Polished Trigger. We start with our standard single-stage government-style fire control group, finely polish the contact surfaces and then coat the hammer and trigger in a super slick nickel finish. The result is a trigger that is substantially smoother than mil-spec. A great economical upgrade.

 

[Timfoilhat]

Lo and behold…the trigger came out of the second one just fine today. Maybe I wasn’t pushing it forward yesterday. I paid close attention to how I got it out of the first one (video above) and made sure to do that on the second. Weird. But not weird enough I’m going to get the other two out that didn’t work. However, I did try to put the old trigger back in this one and had no problems.

So I think the issue was my method. Cartridge type triggers (or whatever the term is) might not work. But standard triggers seem to be removable with the safety in place. At least that’s now my experience over the last 24 hours.

I've both had success and failed doing this with POF triggers (cartridges). I always assumed it was a variation due to the lower.

 

[BigWaylon]

Two more done today. The 10.5” Beowulf (Aero lower) and 16.5” Beowulf (Seekins lower). Safety selector stayed in place.

 

[Timfoilhat]

That's a large hammer you use for the pins.