The 2-shot zero method…

BigWaylon

BigWaylon

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…is a beautiful thing when the firearm, optic and ammo cooperate.

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…but sometimes results in just putting the rifle back in the truck so you don’t keep wasting $$:

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🤣🤣🤣
 
I’ll post some more targets and explanations later…gonna have to work tonight, and again tomorrow.

In case you’ve never done it, just a few steps:

1. Bore sight the firearm so you’ll (hopefully) be on paper
2. Take one shot with reticle/dot on the bullseye
3. While keeping firearm completely still, start with the dot/reticle on the bullseye and adjust it so that it covers the previous impact
4. Take second shot to confirm it’s now sighted in
 
Bocephus said:
@JRHorne is well versed in the last method lol
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I had two of them today I quit on. Six successful. All eight were at least on paper to start.

I left two at home (failed to grab bag), so I skipped two I brought with me since those four would’ve been at a different distance than the eight I did.
 
BigWaylon said:
I’ll post some more targets and explanations later…gonna have to work tonight, and again tomorrow.

In case you’ve never done it, just a few steps:

1. Bore sight the firearm so you’ll (hopefully) be on paper
2. Take one shot with reticle/dot on the bullseye
3. While keeping firearm completely still, start with the dot/reticle on the bullseye and adjust it so that it covers the previous impact
4. Take second shot to confirm it’s now sighted in
Click to expand...

Or....

1. Bore sight to get on paper the 1st shot
2. Use your spotting scope or rifle scope's reticle to measure the MOA/MIL adjustment.
3. Adjust the turrets accordingly.
4. Done.
 
Tim said:
Or....

1. BOre sight to get on paper the 1st shot
2. Use your spotting scope or rifle scope's reticle to measure the MOA/MIL adjustment.
3. Adjust the turrets accordingly.
4. Done.
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Yep. But for me today, I had to use the other method. All prism sites with just a dot/circle. And opted to just use 10x binoculars with no reticle. While the background paper did have a grid, the 12” target didn’t…so I would’ve been guessing MOA/MILs needed. 😁
 
Rifle in focus:

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Targets in focus:

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A surprisingly decent shot of the reticle on target:

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ETA: there is a small dot in the very center that doesn’t show up in that pic, but it’s semi-visible in the original:

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I've used a similar method, only I remove the bolt and sight down the bore, then adjust the scope to the same sight picture. In most cases, it will bring the point of impact within a few inches of the bullseye.

Instead of firing just one round to zero, I'll shoot three, and use the center of that group as my point to adjust to, then shoot another to confirm.
 
RedneckFur said:
I've used a similar method, only I remove the bolt and sight down the bore, then adjust the scope to the same sight picture. In most cases, it will bring the point of impact within a few inches of the bullseye.
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That’s what I meant for my first step…in case it wasn’t clear. Except I did all of mine before hand using the corner of my neighbor’s gutter as my bullseye. 🤣
 
RedneckFur said:
I've used a similar method, only I remove the bolt and sight down the bore, then adjust the scope to the same sight picture. In most cases, it will bring the point of impact within a few inches of the bullseye.
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I'm pretty sure that's what the OP meant when he said "bore sight". At least that's what I thought when I read this:
BigWaylon said:
... just a few steps:

1. Bore sight the firearm so you’ll (hopefully) be on paper
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I guess you could use one of those laser cartridge gimmicks but I prefer your method re: removing the bolt & eyeballing.

ETA - I see OP beat me to it while I was typing.
 
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RetiredUSNChief said:
But I see THREE holes in that first target!
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Not three bullet holes. 😉

I did have one (maybe two?) with three, but haven’t taken pics of them yet.

On the one I remember, I was way down in the white at ~7 o’clock. Couldn’t even see the hole through the optic, so I just adjusted some in that direction. Next one got me on the black for the first shot of the 2-shot method. 😎
 
Correction…that first one is the target I was thinking about. Thought it was a different rifle. That one in the white is the one I described above. So yes, three shots on that one.
 
In fairness to @BigWaylon , my "use the reticle" method and his "adjust the crosshair to the POI" accomplish exactly the same thing. Using his method is actually far easier than mine IF you have a rock solid clamp style vise/bench rest holding your rifle in place between shots.
 
Tim said:
In fairness to @BigWaylon , my "use the reticle" method and his "adjust the crosshair to the POI" accomplish exactly the same thing. Using his method is actually far easier than mine IF you have a rock solid clamp style vise/bench rest holding your rifle in place between shots.
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…or if you have zero idea how a particular reticle works. 🤣🤣
 
BigWaylon said:
Correction…that first one is the target I was thinking about. Thought it was a different rifle. That one in the white is the one I described above. So yes, three shots on that one.
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DRAT! I was too slow! I was going to repost that picture with three fat circles around the holes!

:D
 
BigWaylon said:
Not three bullet holes. 😉

I did have one (maybe two?) with three, but haven’t taken pics of them yet.

On the one I remember, I was way down in the white at ~7 o’clock. Couldn’t even see the hole through the optic, so I just adjusted some in that direction. Next one got me on the black for the first shot of the 2-shot method. 😎
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Oh, its a bullet hole.
Lower left in the white paper. 0386F4A2-043F-4B98-9FA3-585A7A1512D0.jpeg
 
One funny/duh thing that happened was when I finished one gun/target and moved to the second one. I had two set up at a time to cut down on 50yd walks. Took the first shot, adjusted, took the second. Saw a bulls-eye and started down range. Got down there and one bulls-eye was untouched. I’d looked through the binoculars at the wrong target. 🙄
 
Tim said:
IF you have a rock solid clamp style vise/bench rest holding your rifle in place between shots.
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Ed Zachary why I have to do it your way - I'm usually just prone on a mat in the back yard with nothing but bags. That lead sled... woo doggie!

I also use 3-round groups ala @RedneckFur 's post above
 
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Ok, here’s the other four targets from a week ago. First up was the 16” AR that was built for my son. I didn’t hold it still on the windage adjustment, so had to take another shot before correcting the elevation.

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Nothing precision about pulling the PS90 trigger. Can’t remember what I messed up adjusting after the first shot, so I took both the 2nd & 3rd before making a final adjustment. Might couldn’t done better, but that close at 50yd ought to be good enough.


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Optic was 3x on this one, and first time I’d shot with it. Ended up usually shooting two at a time to make sure I was seeing things correctly.

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And here’s the other failed one. Not sure if it was a mag problem, or something else, but I had several instances of the empty case extracting but not ejecting and a second round trying to chamber. Destroyed several of the tips of the ammo:

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Might need to double check the gas block is aligned (had that problem on this build one other time), clean the bolt (that suppressed ammo is nasty dirty), and also eliminate that mag as an issue.
 
It is truly beautiful when rifle and scope “play well” together.
Back in my gun shop days, I told my customers I needed 5 cartridges to produce a 3 shot 100 yard group when sighting in their new rifle and scope.
Used equipment was a different story.
Sadly as rifles and especially scopes age, the dial in process becomes not as well defined.
I have one such combination with a 30-30 Marlin 336 and a vintage Redfield 3x9 wide field scope. No issues with rifle but scope is no longer adjustment consistent.
So once I finally got it sighted in close, I just left as is and recheck each year. It’s still holding it’s cold shot poi so all’s well.
 
BigWaylon said:
I’ll post some more targets and explanations later…gonna have to work tonight, and again tomorrow.

In case you’ve never done it, just a few steps:

1. Bore sight the firearm so you’ll (hopefully) be on paper
2. Take one shot with reticle/dot on the bullseye
3. While keeping firearm completely still, start with the dot/reticle on the bullseye and adjust it so that it covers the previous impact
4. Take second shot to confirm it’s now sighted in
Click to expand...
Thank you, just bought a new rifle I will try this.
 
Acar0938 said:
Thank you, just bought a new rifle I will try this.
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The important thing to remember for this method is point 3a: While keeping firearm completely still. If you don't have a way to anchor the rifle firm enough so that it doesn't move AT ALL under recoil, you're better off doing the old-school shoot three for an average POI center, measure and adjust accordingly. If you are able to immobilize the rifle then carry on and enjoy this awesome 2-shot method.
 
Cape Fear said:
The important thing to remember for this method is point 3a: While keeping firearm completely still. If you don't have a way to anchor the rifle firm enough so that it doesn't move AT ALL under recoil, you're better off doing the old-school shoot three for an average POI center, measure and adjust accordingly. If you are able to immobilize the rifle then carry on and enjoy this awesome 2-shot method.
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I can use the back of a chair arm and get on a knee. Last time I sighted in a rifle the sight was loose and didn’t realize. I will never make that mistake again lmao.
 
Some of you may have played the PC game Police Quest SWAT back in the 90s. I think I played on my sweet Pentium 120 with 8MB RAM. (RAM was super expensive then) Honestly the game kind of stank, but I remember the sniper part being cool. They had you dial DOPE, but I had no real concept of what I was doing.

I did discover that if I held my reticle still and dialed over to my first shot, that my next shot would be dead on. So I suppose in a bit of simultaneous invention, I discovered the 2 shot zero method almost 30 years ago! 😎😄

Daryl_F._Gates'_Police_Quest_-_SWAT_Coverart.png
 
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Acar0938 said:
I can use the back of a chair arm and get on a knee.
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Yeah, no. I mean the rifle can't move throughout the entire process. Look at Big Waylon's photos of the rifle itself, he has it strapped into a Caldwell Lead Sled to immobilize it. It is technically possible to do the 2-shot method if you move the rifle but you have to find and hold the exact same POA from the first shot before you start adjusting.

Now if I misunderstood and you intend to strap the rifle to a chair arm (especially if the chair is bolted to concrete) this might work. But you must immobilize the rifle throughout the entire shooting/adjusting process.
 
Cape Fear said:
Yeah, no. I mean the rifle can't move throughout the entire process. Look at Big Waylon's photos of the rifle itself, he has it strapped into a Caldwell Lead Sled to immobilize it. It is technically possible to do the 2-shot method if you move the rifle but you have to find and hold the exact same POA from the first shot before you start adjusting.

Now if I misunderstood and you intend to strap the rifle to a chair arm (especially if the chair is bolted to concrete) this might work. But you must immobilize the rifle throughout the entire shooting/adjusting process.
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I see what you mean now, I will find something to solid mount it to. Thank you.
 
@Acar0938 I know we're a good ways apart but I have a lead sled you can borrow if you want to come get it.
 
When I belonged to a gun club I was at the range one day and two guys were sighting in a .408 CheyTac. Then it was $5, maybe $6, a round. I think they shot about 30 rounds before they got the optic zeroed. I offered to help but they weren't interested. They had no idea how to best zero the scope.
 
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