The Harrier: the best CAS aircraft, ever...

To condense all this discussion, the Harrier and it's variants are the best close air support platform for the Marine Corps.

There's too much semantics in this thread, the only thing remotely relevant is that the Harrier accomplishes the mission as intended by the service that operates it.
 
I’ll go out on an u known limb and make a guess that it could be the maintenance hours creeping up that killed the Harrier.

That’s what did the Tomcat in. 40 hours of maintenance for every 1 hour flying. That’s not sustainable.

The Harrier’s flight dynamics—particularly, hovering and STOL—are hard on the engine. I haven’t read anything to support what I just said, but I’d bet a few chips that maintenance is part of its demise.
 
9outof10mms said:
I’ll go out on an u known limb and make a guess that it could be the maintenance hours creeping up that killed the Harrier.

That’s what did the Tomcat in. 40 hours of maintenance for every 1 hour flying. That’s not sustainable.

The Harrier’s flight dynamics—particularly, hovering and STOL—are hard on the engine. I haven’t read anything to support what I just said, but I’d bet a few chips that maintenance is part of its demise.
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That's only a part of it, compared to the types other operators, formerly the UK, presently Spain, and Italy, they baby their aircraft.
When the Brits retired theirs we bought them out, every aircraft, and all the spares. Then the feasibility of configuring those birds to our specs was tried, and it was found to be too complex and expensive.
Our birds are old and near worn out, the newest are pushing 30 years old, if they haven't passed that mark already.
Maintenance per flight hour is something I can't speak to, but no military aircraft is lite on wrench time.

One thing I wonder is how close the AV8 is in time on the clock as compared to the legacy F18. Those were so over utilized its damn near criminal.
 
well, i "heard" drones would take over all attack missions.
 
My kid fly's a Harrier. He graduated 2nd in primary and was pissed when he selected Harriers and didn't get the Hornet he wanted. Now he says he wouldn't trade the experience for anything. He's had 3 deployments with two different squadrons (231 and 542) in the past 14 years or so flying the Harrier. He's currently on a non flying tour in Oki but as base OPSO he gets to build time flying a Marine UC-35 as his side job. He just selected for Lt Col in this last board. He's hoping to get back in a fast jet cockpit (won't be a Harrier tho.....maybe and F35 instructor or F-5 aggressor pilot) on his next tour......There aren't too many seats for Majors and Lt Cols in any tactical jet much less a in a Harrier.. Below is a "proud dad" gratuitous pic of my kid, low level zorching around Idaho in his little scooter........ Eric 09 Low Level Mountain Home.jpg
 
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rocketman said:
My kid fly's a Harrier. He graduated 2nd in his class and was pissed when he selected Harriers and didn't get the Hornet he wanted. Now he says he wouldn't trade the experience for anything. He's had 3 deployments with two different squadrons (231 and 542) in the past 14 years or so flying the Harrier. He's currently on a non flying tour in Oki but as base OPSO he gets to build time flying a Marine UC-35 as his side job. He just selected for Lt Col in this last board. He's hoping to get back in a fast jet cockpit (won't be a Harrier tho.....maybe and F35 instructor or F-5 aggressor pilot) on his next tour......There aren't too many seats for Majors and Lt Cols in any tactical jet much less a in a Harrier.. Below is a "proud dad" gratuitous pic of my kid low level zorching around Idaho in his little scooter........ View attachment 707278
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What a picture! I saved that in my USMC folder.

I truly can't imagine how proud you are.

Semper Fidelis
 
rocketman said:
My kid fly's a Harrier. He graduated 2nd in his class and was pissed when he selected Harriers and didn't get the Hornet he wanted. Now he says he wouldn't trade the experience for anything. He's had 3 deployments with two different squadrons (231 and 542) in the past 14 years or so flying the Harrier. He's currently on a non flying tour in Oki but as base OPSO he gets to build time flying a Marine UC-35 as his side job. He just selected for Lt Col in this last board. He's hoping to get back in a fast jet cockpit (won't be a Harrier tho.....maybe and F35 instructor or F-5 aggressor pilot) on his next tour......There aren't too many seats for Majors and Lt Cols in any tactical jet much less a in a Harrier.. Below is a "proud dad" gratuitous pic of my kid low level zorching around Idaho in his little scooter........ View attachment 707278
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That's outstanding! What was his path to becoming a pilot?
 
USMC6094 said:
That's only a part of it, compared to the types other operators, formerly the UK, presently Spain, and Italy, they baby their aircraft.
When the Brits retired theirs we bought them out, every aircraft, and all the spares. Then the feasibility of configuring those birds to our specs was tried, and it was found to be too complex and expensive.
Our birds are old and near worn out, the newest are pushing 30 years old, if they haven't passed that mark already.
Maintenance per flight hour is something I can't speak to, but no military aircraft is lite on wrench time.

One thing I wonder is how close the AV8 is in time on the clock as compared to the legacy F18. Those were so over utilized its damn near criminal.
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The over utilized is a direct result of making be-all do-all aircraft. Makes sense on paper, but it’s shortsighted in terms of aircraft life. If you have only one pair of shoes and you wear them for walking, hiking, playing sports, working in the yard, they’re gonna wear out quickly. Look at the flight deck of a carrier from the 70’s-2000’s. Many airframes for specific roles. Now look at the deck—super bugs and 35’s. The only ones still role specific are the prop jobs that they couldn’t combine into the Hornet or Lightning to do.
 

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Triggernosis said:
That's outstanding! What was his path to becoming a pilot?
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He went thru the PLC program out of App State. His vision wasn't good enough so he paid for surgery on one eye and I paid for the other. After finally passing the flight physical he was accepted in the flight program. OCS and TBS at Quantico of course. Primary at Pensacola in the T-6B (soloing off the same runway that his grandfather did 50 years before.) Carrier Qual in the T-45 on the USS Bush off of Key West. Then on to Meridian for jet advanced in the T-45C. VMA-203 at Cherry Point for the Harrier Rag then fleet tours with VMA-231 and later VMA-542.
 
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rocketman said:

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He went thru the PLC program out of App State. His vision wasn't good enough so he paid for surgery on one eye and I paid for the other. After finally passing the flight physical he was accepted in the flight program. OCS and TBS at Quantico of course. Primary at Pensacola in the T-6B (soloing off the same runway that his grandfather did 50 years before.) Carrier Qual in the T-45 on the USS Bush off of Key Then on to Meridian for jet advanced in the T-45C. VMA-203 at Cherry Point for the Harrier Rag then fleet tours with VMA-231 and later VMA-542.
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IMG_0515.jpeg
 
rocketman said:

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He went thru the PLC program out of App State. His vision wasn't good enough so he paid for surgery on one eye and I paid for the other. After finally passing the flight physical he was accepted in the flight program. OCS and TBS at Quantico of course. Primary at Pensacola in the T-6B (soloing off the same runway that his grandfather did 50 years before.) Carrier Qual in the T-45 on the USS Bush off of Key Then on to Meridian for jet advanced in the T-45C. VMA-203 at Cherry Point for the Harrier Rag then fleet tours with VMA-231 and later VMA-542.
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As a corpsman I did some med support at TBS. I love that the Marines send all officers to TBS.

231 and 542 are storied squadrons, a lot of rich history. I do not know any active pilots anymore; I have been out way too long. The ones I knew and with whom I keep in touch are sad to see the Harrier going away but understand why. Yeah, at O5 a lot of his flying times are behind him.
 
9outof10mms said:
The over utilized is a direct result of making be-all do-all aircraft. Makes sense on paper, but it’s shortsighted in terms of aircraft life. If you have only one pair of shoes and you wear them for walking, hiking, playing sports, working in the yard, they’re gonna wear out quickly. Look at the flight deck of a carrier from the 70’s-2000’s. Many airframes for specific roles. Now look at the deck—super bugs and 35’s. The only ones still role specific are the prop jobs that they couldn’t combine into the Hornet or Lightning to do.
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The only Navy AC that are role-specific is the Growler. Of course there is the E2, but as far as jets, the F-18 and F-35 are the only games in town. I miss the days of the F-18, F-14, S-3, E-6, EA-6B....
 
rocketman said:

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He went thru the PLC program out of App State. His vision wasn't good enough so he paid for surgery on one eye and I paid for the other. After finally passing the flight physical he was accepted in the flight program. OCS and TBS at Quantico of course. Primary at Pensacola in the T-6B (soloing off the same runway that his grandfather did 50 years before.) Carrier Qual in the T-45 on the USS Bush off of Key Then on to Meridian for jet advanced in the T-45C. VMA-203 at Cherry Point for the Harrier Rag then fleet tours with VMA-231 and later VMA-542.
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Cool!
So he didn't go through ROTC - just PLC after graduation?
I regret not doing that myself. I was hung up on Air Force or Navy and never thought of Marine aviation.
Ended up going to West Point instead. 🤷‍♂️ No airplanes there.😄
 
Chuckman said:
A-10s starting to go to the boneyard:

www.airandspaceforces.com

Davis-Monthan Begins Sending A-10s to the Boneyard

Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz., bid farewell to one of its A-10s as the base prepares for a new mission.
www.airandspaceforces.com www.airandspaceforces.com

Cherry Point MCAS F-35 squadron now operational:

www.marinecorpstimes.com

East Coast Marine F-35 squadron reaches initial operational status

When the unit reaches fully operational capability, it will contain six squadrons with 10 planes per squadron.
www.marinecorpstimes.com www.marinecorpstimes.com
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Can I have one?
There is space in the backyard.
 
VMA 231 Harriers Downing Houthi Drones.

231 currently has a det attached to the 26th MEU and the amphibious assault ship USS Bataan. They have one kid who has shot down 7 drones already. I believe they are using AIM 120's and not AIM-9 Sidwinders as the drones evidently have more of a radar signature than a heat signature. Not the most inexpensive trade off (AIM-120's for a suicide drone) but the Marines are making it work with very little notice.
 
rocketman said:
My kid fly's a Harrier. He graduated 2nd in primary and was pissed when he selected Harriers and didn't get the Hornet he wanted. Now he says he wouldn't trade the experience for anything. He's had 3 deployments with two different squadrons (231 and 542) in the past 14 years or so flying the Harrier. He's currently on a non flying tour in Oki but as base OPSO he gets to build time flying a Marine UC-35 as his side job. He just selected for Lt Col in this last board. He's hoping to get back in a fast jet cockpit (won't be a Harrier tho.....maybe and F35 instructor or F-5 aggressor pilot) on his next tour......There aren't too many seats for Majors and Lt Cols in any tactical jet much less a in a Harrier.. Below is a "proud dad" gratuitous pic of my kid, low level zorching around Idaho in his little scooter........ View attachment 707278
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Awesome photo, right there…

I’d be hanging that one on the wall.👍
 
RN Harriers had an outstanding kill ratio in the Falklands war. The Harrier is a very unconventional dogfighter in a close engagement
 
rufrdr said:
RN Harriers had an outstanding kill ratio in the Falklands war. The Harrier is a very unconventional dogfighter in a close engagement
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I'd love to see the first Mirage pilots face as he tried to get a lock and the Harriet VIFFed away to get a kill shot lol
 
"the Harrier is three times more likely to crash than the F/A-18 and five times more likely than the A-10. " That just tells me that if you want to make it home, You should be in the A-10.
 
Elenaidan said:
"the Harrier is three times more likely to crash than the F/A-18 and five times more likely than the A-10. " That just tells me that if you want to make it home, You should be in the A-10.
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All VSTOL aircraft are harder to fly and have a higher crash rate. That said, the A-10 was built for resilience. It was built to be a tank killer, not a CAS AC, so it was designed to be survivable.
 
Chuckman said:
All VSTOL aircraft are harder to fly and have a higher crash rate. That said, the A-10 was built for resilience. It was built to be a tank killer, not a CAS AC, so it was designed to be survivable.
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Plus I recall hearing once that the Harrier is absolutely stuffed with gubbins, so wherever you take a hit, something important is there.
 
Can I say F*** in this thread.

WTF is a fish pairing?

Ya know, I was married to a Brit 45 years ago.

Little filly from Plymouth in Devon.

Divorce court fixed that…
 
Ben Jefferson said:
Can I say F*** in this thread.

WTF is a fish pairing?

Ya know, I was married to a Brit 45 years ago.

Little filly from Plymouth in Devon.

Divorce court fixed that…
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Screenshot_20240214-092448-605.png

It's not even English slang, it's a word in common usage lol
 
I also have this on DCS, every switch and button modeled, if anyone wants to go for a ride in screen share lol.
 
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