Toyota ups the ante
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Back in the 80s after the fuel crisis things changed and we bought a car that got 40mpg and everybody was chasing the 100 mpg car. Now with computerized engine management I dont imagine it is far fetched to get some pretty outrageous mpgs. So why is a hybrid car that gets the same mpg as a full gas car did in 1982 an achievement. Seems we could be getting high mpg and still be better off with gas without much investment. Like a 10 dollar computer chip or something. Ever been to a lithium mine? All these batteries will be an EPA new superfund project one day.
Everyone in the electric car realm still thinks electricty comes from dendelion puffs. I had an electric car. It was great around the farm and to two small towns near by. Otherwise couldnt go anywhere. If you stayed in town could save some gas for sure. I plugged mine into the 110 at night. Dont need any fancy charging stations. Still seems like a niche to me.
Everyone in the electric car realm still thinks electricty comes from dendelion puffs. I had an electric car. It was great around the farm and to two small towns near by. Otherwise couldnt go anywhere. If you stayed in town could save some gas for sure. I plugged mine into the 110 at night. Dont need any fancy charging stations. Still seems like a niche to me.
mellocollins
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They are not allowed to make a car as light and fragile as they did in 70’s and 80’s. Cost gas to move that extra weight.
The way the United States is regulated by the EPA has our hands tied.
We are regulated by how much pollution we create per gallon burned instead of how much pollution we create per distance travelled. This paired with current safety regulations means that we don't get a lot of gas sippers that already exist.
There are vehicles out there that might pollute twice as much per gallon burned but can go three times as far on a gallon of fuel. But because they pollute too much per amount burned we aren't allowed to have them. Regulating it the other way around would mean less over all pollution and less actual fuel being used. It's a win for everybody but the oil industry.
If this were changed we could be rolling around in flimsy tin cans that get 80+ mpg without all the hybrid garbage. Paired with the hybrid garbage I bet we could see some impressive numbers.
We are regulated by how much pollution we create per gallon burned instead of how much pollution we create per distance travelled. This paired with current safety regulations means that we don't get a lot of gas sippers that already exist.
There are vehicles out there that might pollute twice as much per gallon burned but can go three times as far on a gallon of fuel. But because they pollute too much per amount burned we aren't allowed to have them. Regulating it the other way around would mean less over all pollution and less actual fuel being used. It's a win for everybody but the oil industry.
If this were changed we could be rolling around in flimsy tin cans that get 80+ mpg without all the hybrid garbage. Paired with the hybrid garbage I bet we could see some impressive numbers.
If that were true they'd be shouting it from the rooftops. If it is true, then I agree.
Old School
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Current EVs are great in-town / local range commuters. If you never need the extra range or can afford an extra car that is limited to in-town use - then a current EV is great for you. A battery tech breakthrough could change all that, but I have my doubts about backwards compatibility.
When the battery goes on an old-tech car, can they simply swap out the old battery for a battery with all the new tech? Or will it be the situation where "we can replace the battery, but will also have to replace connectors, controllers, regulators, computers, ports, safety components, cooling unit, etc. You might as well buy a new car."
When the battery goes on an old-tech car, can they simply swap out the old battery for a battery with all the new tech? Or will it be the situation where "we can replace the battery, but will also have to replace connectors, controllers, regulators, computers, ports, safety components, cooling unit, etc. You might as well buy a new car."
Yeah, as we all know(and heard many many times), these things tend to be a bit.......lets go with optimistic
We'll see..
Toyota Touts Solid State EVs With 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027
The Japanese automaker says it has found a new material that will help commercialize the elusive, long-awaited solid state battery, but it's light on details.
I still havent seen where they are addressing the power grid itself to support the new demand for any of these new electric cars? Electric cars are nice if you can charge them but the grid can’t support you leaving your ac on at peak demand in parts of the country now how does it support adding more demand to charge cars?
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I’ll see if I can find it but I saw an interesting YT video that explained the unintended consequences of the CAFE standard.
Basically, the rule encourages larger vehicles since MPG targets are based on the area of wheel base (length) x track (width). Larger vehicles have a lower MPG target, and smaller vehicles have a sharply increasing target.
I’m guessing the creators of the CAFE rule assumed sizes of cars would stay roughly the same and therefore focusing on small vehicles would yield the most gains. However, we all know that vehicles have ballooned in size and weight (even less efficient) over the past couple decades.
One of the examples used in the video was why no one makes a compact, single cab pickup anymore, like the old Toyotas (prior to the Tacoma). It would need to get something like 40mpg and that’s simply not possible.
Basically, the rule encourages larger vehicles since MPG targets are based on the area of wheel base (length) x track (width). Larger vehicles have a lower MPG target, and smaller vehicles have a sharply increasing target.
I’m guessing the creators of the CAFE rule assumed sizes of cars would stay roughly the same and therefore focusing on small vehicles would yield the most gains. However, we all know that vehicles have ballooned in size and weight (even less efficient) over the past couple decades.
One of the examples used in the video was why no one makes a compact, single cab pickup anymore, like the old Toyotas (prior to the Tacoma). It would need to get something like 40mpg and that’s simply not possible.
Found it!
Comically enough, almost all orders/interest for full sized and small modular/micro nuclear reactors are coming from outside the US - Canada and the EU, primarily.
I also saw that a while back. It makes total sense on the math side why things are they way there are, but absolutely no sense otherwise if your goal is more fuel efficient vehicles.
come on, you know the answer to that! It's the ultimate in planned obsolescence. even if the tech to do it is there, it won't take but a few bribes to the right lawmakers to make it so they "can't" retrofit new batteries into old cars for "reasons".
The country doesn't have the electricity infrastructure to support electric cars for all.
Where is the energy going to come from to charge these things? We don't have anywhere near enough power on the grid for these to replace the gas vehicles.
Everyone will need to install their own diesel or propane powered generators to charge them.
"A Well regulated auto industry, being necessary to the security of a dependent state, the right of the people to keep and drive autos should they be able to afford them, shall not be infringed".
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Why does it not occur to the governor to give All NC Companies incentives to locate here? Hundreds of millions in incentives for Toyota and other big companies, and to hail with the little guys but pay yer taxes first.
Chdamn
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Tax incentives are a way to put small businesses out of business.
And EV cars will eventually destroy this country.
And EV cars will eventually destroy this country.
Unbelievable you don't understand. It's FREE, don't you listen to the current administration? jeez.............................
Measuring pollution by distance traveled would make it easier to calculate the pollution from EV cars as well. It drives me nuts when idiots claim they’re emission free. They’re not, it’s just been pushed to the power plant, which is no more efficient than an IC engine.
You believe that the engine in your 1974 ford bronco, or even your 2023 nissan thingamambob is as efficient as a gas, coal, or nuclear power plant? Do tell, what metric are you considering?
There has already been a lot of grid updates to allow for transmission of renewable energy across regions. Currently uderway is a 748-megawatt power line carrying renewable energy from New Mexico to Arizona, a 1,200-megawatt line bringing Canadian hydropower to Vermont and New Hampshire and a 1,500-megawatt line linking Utah and Nevada.
Fortunately, the adoption of EVs is going to scale similarly to how air conditioning rolled out to houses. Most adoption will be from new vehicle purchases with a gradual replacement of ICE vehicles, not an instant demand on the grid today compared to what the demand will be in 2030-2050.
The same people telling me that I can't have drinking straws or plastic bags are driving around in completely disposable cars. Cars that are made out of plastic, kobalt and lithium.
Pretty sure that having to produce five Tesla's to match the lifetime of one Honda Civic is far worse than whatever emissions the civic will produce in its entire lifetime.
Pretty sure that having to produce five Tesla's to match the lifetime of one Honda Civic is far worse than whatever emissions the civic will produce in its entire lifetime.
If you accept that EVs will gradually replace ICE vehicles, then you are also "re-deploying" the energy used to refine/pump/transport gasoline. The math has so many variables, but at the most basic form the amount of electricity to refine 1 gal of gasoline would power an EV for 20 miles. Obviously it matters what vehicle is using the gas and what EV is using the electricity. But it is not as big of a lift as one might think. The bigger concern to me is rolling out nuclear energy so we have consistent baselines and also reliable ability to ramp up production for peak usage.
The push for renewable energy is a bigger risk than EVs since green energy production is limited by geography and we lack a way of transmitting it to other geographies where it is needed.
We’ve had the discussion before. Absent some form of cogeneration, a power plant is upwards of maybe 40% efficient and when efficiency comes at a cost, you know an entity like Duke is going to go cheap.
OP
NC emerging as a clean energy hub: Governor’s take on EVs, Toyota, VinFast, lithium mining | WRAL TechWire
More expansion news from Toyota about its growing lithium battery complex gave Gov. Roy Cooper a chance to talk about North Carolina's growing clean energy economy. He talked with WRAL News Capitol Bureau Chief Laura Leslie about Toyota, what's going on with VinFast, the electric vehicle sector...
wraltechwire.com
Used to be a Lithium mine near Charlotte. Went out of business overnight when mines in SA cut the world mkt price in half. Some trespassers found a body there a few years ago. I dont know if this mine has reopened or if there is a new one.
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NC emerging as a clean energy hub: Governor’s take on EVs, Toyota, VinFast, lithium mining | WRAL TechWire
More expansion news from Toyota about its growing lithium battery complex gave Gov. Roy Cooper a chance to talk about North Carolina's growing clean energy economy. He talked with WRAL News Capitol Bureau Chief Laura Leslie about Toyota, what's going on with VinFast, the electric vehicle sector...
Used to be a Lithium mine near Charlotte. Went out of business overnight when mines in SA cut the world mkt price in half. Some trespassers found a body there a few years ago. I dont know if this mine has reopened or if there is a new one.
Some history / background on the NC Lithium mine:
Piedmont Lithium Project — an open-pit mine in North Carolina, US
The Piedmont lithium project is an open-pit spodumene mine along with a lithium hydroxide chemical plant proposed to be developed in North Carolina, US.
www.nsenergybusiness.com
Piedmont Lithium still facing intense skepticism over new Gaston County mine
Piedmont Lithium officials faced tough questions from Gaston County commissioners Tuesday night during the first public meeting in two years about the company's plans for a mine and processing plant.
www.wunc.org
What's the efficiency of a ICE vehicle doing the same? Do we know how to compare the two? Would be an interesting stat.
Here’s an article from the EIA: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=44436 (May need to scroll the window to read it, I did)
The difference between gas and coal efficiency is said to be due to the difference in typical plant age. As to cars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency
There are some other blurbs about diesel being able to go up to about 54% efficiency and steam turbines also being about 40%.
TLDR; both power plant and IC engine are around 30%-40% efficient. Also not commonly considered are the transmission losses for electric and the losses from the power conversion in the chargers.
Be really curious to see how this chart changes by 2025 or so, once all those EVs are out there. Or will it get wrapped up in 'residential' since they're being charged at home?
That was Toyota. Solid state ie semiconductor battery. Still in laboratory. Estimated availability late 20's early 30's
Of course it would take a really large electrical grid source to move that much energy that fast. Not any time soon.
Great in theory, in practice not so much.
Stop it with the facts already, you're going to make the eco fascists cry lol
Duke will be Duke, but if a utility could produce electricity more efficiently by hooking up a gasoline or diesel engine, someone would be doing it. Nobody is doing that, I mean nobody, really nobody. I have maybe 25 large diesel generators, and maybe they could theoretically be more efficient than the power plant, but it costs me more to produce a kwh than to buy one so when you consider all inputs it seems highly unlikely.
You’re talking about radically different economies of scale and making a false equivalence. A couple hundred horsepower engine is not the same as a multiple megawatt generation plant. It doesn't makes sense to string together a bunch of gasoline engines to generate bulk electricity, but this doesn’t mean that bulk electricity is the most efficient choice to replace a bunch of small engines either. Regardless, the energy in / out for an IC engine is comparable to that of a coal or gas electric plant. The idea that electric cars are emission free, more efficient, or even “green“ is total BS and propaganda.
While nobody is stringing large diesel generators together to produce electricity they are using fuel burning turbines. This is fairly common, especially in peak capacity scenarios. Univ. Texas in Austin has a few turbine plants to produce something like up to 60 MW of power for their campus.
There’s also the conversion factor. It’s simpler to go from heat energy to mechanical rotation than to go from burning solid fuel to steam to AC electricity, to stored DC charge to drive a motor.
There is also another, semi related paradigm, that of what is commonly called district energy. SMUD Sacramento Municipal Utility District is a pretty well known example. A lot of universities use this model too, as it is more efficient to produce steam and chilled water in a large central plant than to have every building have a boiler and chiller; but the infrastructure costs are enormous. You can get better efficiencies and reliability on smaller to medium scales than a national one. Where things really get interesting is finding ways to utilize waste heat.