Tungsten

[NJSC]

Last year I was in the bowshop and happened to fall into a conversation about loading tungsten shot for turkeys. Because it's heavier than lead the guys were talking about shooting 8 shot for turkey. This is a bit shocking for me, but also very intriguing. Do any of you guys load with tungsten at all? If so, is 8ish actually good for turning a head to jelly?
I'm considering starting to start loading for waterfowl just because of the price of steel shot being crazy. Any of you shoot tungsten for ducks and geese?

 

[Bailey Boat]

I had a client leave me a box of Tungsten at the end of the trip and I've shot 4 or 5 but can't tell any difference between it and steel as far as killing a duck. With that said I limit my shots to <40 yards.

 

[NJSC]

What size shot are you using to compare it to? I guess it would take a lot of hunting to justify the time and money spent going with tungsten when Rio #2 does just about anything that I want it to for cheap.

 

[11B CIB]

Would this wear out a barrel quicker?

 

[Bailey Boat]

Would this wear out a barrel quicker?

Negative, the shot cup insulates the shot itself from the barrel. That is assuming the reloader uses the proper wad. Most problems come with the choke, lead will compress and pass even a full choke whereas steel and Tungsten won't compress as much and could split a tight choke.
When I shoot steel or tungsten I never go any tighter than improved cylinder which actually yields modified patterns....

 

[spittinfire]

I don’t have any experience in loading tungsten so maybe I’m stepping out of line but I have killed turkeys. 8 shot seems awfully small for a turkey but maybe the added weight and density make up for it. If so, the decrease in shot size would make up for the reduces amount of shot needed and keep a dense pattern. The smaller size would help aid penetration. I guess it could work but for hunting NC where lead is perfectly acceptable, why switch?

 

[Bailey Boat]

would help aid penetration.

Negative, smaller shot sheds velocity and energy faster than a larger shot size. The standing reason for smaller shot is increased pattern density and more hits (even though they don't carry as much energy) in the fatal zone.
I don't personally hunt turkey but do take clients to hunt them and the first thing I ask is if they have patterned their gun and the overwhelming answer is "I'm sure it's fine"....... Your money, your trip, waste it anyway you choose.....

 

[spittinfire]

Negative, smaller shot sheds velocity and energy faster than a larger shot size. The standing reason for smaller shot is increased pattern density and more hits (even though they don't carry as much energy) in the fatal zone.
I don't personally hunt turkey but do take clients to hunt them and the first thing I ask is if they have patterned their gun and the overwhelming answer is "I'm sure it's fine"....... Your money, your trip, waste it anyway you choose.....

Even if the shot weight and density is the same? Weight is still shed faster?

 

[NCFubar]

Even if the shot weight and density is the same? Weight is still shed faster?

Think of it as if you throw a rock or a hand full of sand weighing the same as a rock ... that rock is gonna do way more hurt.

 

[spittinfire]

Think of it as if you throw a rock or a hand full of sand weighing the same as a rock ... that rock is gonna do way more hurt.

Take two single pieces of shot and say they both way 20gr. One is 0.250” diameter and the other is 0.125” diameter. It’s moving the same weight, at the same speed but has less surface area for resistance. If they are both traveling at the same speed, would the smaller piece of shot not penetrate deeper?

 

[NCFubar]

Take two single pieces of shot and say they both way 20gr. One is 0.250” diameter and the other is 0.125” diameter. It’s moving the same weight, at the same speed but has less surface area for resistance. If they are both traveling at the same speed, would the smaller piece of shot not penetrate deeper?

Problem is you're going not gonna load twice the weight of shot in a shell and still be able to push it at the same velocity. A regular 3" turkey #4 load is 1 1/4oz of shot moving at 1250-1300ish fps ... which should be about 160-170 pellets if I remember the loads. If you fill the same number of tungsten pellets you'll be pushing about about 2oz of tungsten and unless you hop up the powder charge you'll lose velocity. Conversely if you maintain the 1 1/4oz payload you'll only have roughly 95-100 pellets. Now if you want to push it there's the 3 1/2" shoulder beater shells ... more payload and more power more down range.

Now what really would be nice for handloading for turkey would be for Federal to sell their "Flight Control" wads! Those things tighten up patterns nicely and put more pellets in your "ten inch ring" so you can run more managble loads and not beat up your shoulder.

 

[spittinfire]

Problem is you're going not gonna load twice the weight of shot in a shell and still be able to push it at the same velocity. A regular 3" turkey #4 load is 1 1/4oz of shot moving at 1250-1300ish fps ... which should be about 160-170 pellets if I remember the loads. If you fill the same number of tungsten pellets you'll be pushing about about 2oz of tungsten and unless you hop up the powder charge you'll lose velocity. Conversely if you maintain the 1 1/4oz payload you'll only have roughly 95-100 pellets. Now if you want to push it there's the 3 1/2" shoulder beater shells ... more payload and more power more down range.

Now what really would be nice for handloading for turkey would be for Federal to sell their "Flight Control" wads! Those things tighten up patterns nicely and put more pellets in your "ten inch ring" so you can run more managble loads and not beat up your shoulder.

You and I are on the same page.

I also agree with you on the Federal Flight control wads, they work really well. You know what? I happen to know a guy who is in the wad making business, I'm going to ask him. I'll report back with what I learn.

 

[z7elkhunter]

I load tungsten super shot for turkeys and here's the deal. This stuff is not regular tungsten that you can buy from any shotshell manufacturer out there. The tungsten loaded in factory available loads runs somewhere around 13g per cc in weight compared to less than 10g for lead, with the heaviest being Federal Heavyweight at 15g per cc. The TSS that us turkey hunters use is 18g per cc. This means a #9 TSS pellet is the same weight as a #5 lead pellet. Shotgun shells are loaded by weight, not by pellet count, doesn't matter what material is loaded, an ounce is an ounce. A better comparison than the rock and sand would be if you had a softball that weighed 2oz and a golf ball that weighed the same, which could you throw farther.

Most of us use 9 shot for our turkey loads. So say we have a recipe that calls for 2oz of shot, we will have 762 pellets in that shell vs a 2oz load of #5 lead that will only have 364 pellets. The number 9s will have the same energy per pellet as the number 5s per pellet with twice the pellet count. Not only is there the same energy, the shot we use is highly polished like chrome and has the same weight and size consistency pellet to pellet unlike lead. This gives us better patterns and a lot more penetration due to the pellets having a smaller surface area going thru feathers, meat and bone.

Here is a 40 yard pattern I shot a few days ago. That is 361 pellets in a 10" circle which is pretty typical out of my gun/choke/load combo.

Advantages are better penetration and higher shot count.

Disadvantages are very expensive and must be hand loaded. You have to buy this shot from individuals that have it shipped in from China and they are the ones you will get your load data from when you purchase the shot. There is no commercially available load data for this stuff.

 

[trcubed]

Remember basic physics...mass and weight are not interchangeable terms. Mass, not weight, is used in calculating momentum and energy.

Two equal masses traveling at the same velocity will deliver equal energies to the target. A smaller, more dense pellet with the same mass as a larger, less dense pellet, but with a higher velocity, will deliver more energy to the target.