Sounds like someone is waking up.
http://www.eiscouncil.com/EarthEx
http://www.eiscouncil.com/EarthEx
We're actually preparing for an EMP?
- Thread starter Flashpoint
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EMP weapons are impractical and are not a threat. If they are large enough to actually do anything, they are simply an atomic weapon at that point.
OP
Well they ARE atomic weapons detonated high in the atmosphere so there is no blast damage. I think there are many experts in the field that would disagree with you, including a congressional report from 2008 that we never acted on.
Regardless, it doesn't have to come from a weapon. We're overdue for another Carrington event, and one just missed us in 2012.
backwoodsshooter
there’s always a method to the madness
Actually if detonated high enough up, the atmosphere will protect up from the radiation. But the neutrons ( I think thats the ones) then play hell with other electrons and what not thus creating an EMP. Think solar flare.
Saying that we never acted on it is a bit presumptuous. Just because no one told you what the response would be doesn't mean there isn't a plan.
Oh I'm absolutely sure the plan involves a certain "class" preparing giant bunkers being built with money stolen from the People in order to save themselves while saying eff you to everyone else.
Were you planning to distribute your "preps" among the masses after the "Day"?
Yeah , I read that book too.
Hopefully the Arks would be populated by the best and brightest, those who would be helpful in restoring us to civilization. but you may have a point.
You are right in that That was a good book. It really did open my eyes to a lot of things. I In fact would not be shocked As anything is possible.
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BurnedOutGeek
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Chdamn
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"The Story of O"? Never mind, she was usually nekkid in that book.
Hahaha my big fingers typing on an iPad lol
Long_Hunter
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For the fans of EMP...that acronym fell out of favor awhile ago, replaced by "HEMP", High-Altitude EMP (NOT the smokable-mind altering-make you eat a dozen frozen pizzas "potable" plant woven into strong as hell rope stuff hemp).
Both Russia and China (and I am sure we as well) have developed nuclear weapons that maximize the EMP produced...and by detonating at extreme altitude, you generate a cascading effect that increases the severity of the event. The congressional report was in to parts...the part most of you have read that was unclass, and then the other part that was classified.
Our adversaries only have to get it right one time...one time; our defense must get it right every single time...cannot miss, cannot fail.
If you can only get one shot at it, this is what you use...this is what you do. You don't need an accurate guidance system, your not hitting a city...just a geographical area...and you take down half the country or more (altitude dependent).
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You roll over in bed late one night, notice the alarm clock is not on...thats odd...you reach over and hit it once, nothing. You sit up on the edge of the bed...damn its quiet..the ceiling fan isn't running...is the power out? You get up and walk into the kitchen...yep, no power. You look out the window...no lights anywhere...your eyes flip down to your wrist, to the old wind up watch your grandfather gave you...still ticking away, and in the moonlight coming through the window, you see it is 3 in the morning...well at least that is working. You wander back to the bedroom and pick your cell phone up from the dresser...it won't come on...what the hell...you here gunfire in the distance...oh shit...it has hit the fan.
Both Russia and China (and I am sure we as well) have developed nuclear weapons that maximize the EMP produced...and by detonating at extreme altitude, you generate a cascading effect that increases the severity of the event. The congressional report was in to parts...the part most of you have read that was unclass, and then the other part that was classified.
Our adversaries only have to get it right one time...one time; our defense must get it right every single time...cannot miss, cannot fail.
If you can only get one shot at it, this is what you use...this is what you do. You don't need an accurate guidance system, your not hitting a city...just a geographical area...and you take down half the country or more (altitude dependent).
********************************
You roll over in bed late one night, notice the alarm clock is not on...thats odd...you reach over and hit it once, nothing. You sit up on the edge of the bed...damn its quiet..the ceiling fan isn't running...is the power out? You get up and walk into the kitchen...yep, no power. You look out the window...no lights anywhere...your eyes flip down to your wrist, to the old wind up watch your grandfather gave you...still ticking away, and in the moonlight coming through the window, you see it is 3 in the morning...well at least that is working. You wander back to the bedroom and pick your cell phone up from the dresser...it won't come on...what the hell...you here gunfire in the distance...oh shit...it has hit the fan.
georgel
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There won't be for long. I don't remember the intermediate numbers, but in the first 3 months there will be a significant reduction in the population, something on the order of 30%?? But, I do remember the numbers for the end of 1 year, 98%.
That's 98% loss. The projections say only 2% of the population will survive the first year. Estimated time to repair grid, 2 years.
With components we have to source from China.
You also have to factor in, how will these elites be found, with no power for vehicles, gas, electronics, etc.
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Dale Gribble
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Really sad...what we've come to.
There was a time in this country when no one had electricity and folks managed to make it just fine.
I'm sure those were difficult times, with a ton of hard work to be done just to live from day to day, but folks did it and they did it independent of a power grid.
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georgel
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Yeah, the point is they did and some still do. I joke about an Amish guy rolling up in his horse drawn carriage after a HEMP and asking if something happened.
Unfortunately, most of society is now dependent on others doing things for them, including farming for food.
A good chunk of the initial attrition numbers are medical related, people on life saving equipment first, then people dependent on life saving medications over the next 30-90 days as they run out. Food will be the big one and clean drinking water. They give that 72hrs. The average grocery has 3 days worth of food in stock under normal circumstances. Then hungry people will start turning mean and desperate without their milk and bread. If it's winter, you have to factor that in, as well as the heat of summer. Then disease and the lack of ability to treat. No meds.
It will be hell on Earth. Of course, China could swoop in and save the day.
And some wonder why I've moved 50miles out.
Unfortunately, most of society is now dependent on others doing things for them, including farming for food.
A good chunk of the initial attrition numbers are medical related, people on life saving equipment first, then people dependent on life saving medications over the next 30-90 days as they run out. Food will be the big one and clean drinking water. They give that 72hrs. The average grocery has 3 days worth of food in stock under normal circumstances. Then hungry people will start turning mean and desperate without their milk and bread. If it's winter, you have to factor that in, as well as the heat of summer. Then disease and the lack of ability to treat. No meds.
It will be hell on Earth. Of course, China could swoop in and save the day.
And some wonder why I've moved 50miles out.
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georgel
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Report of the Commission to Assess the
Threat to the United States from
Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack
ABSTRACT
Several potential adversaries have or can acquire the capability to attack the
United States with a high-altitude nuclear weapon-generated electromagnetic pulse
(EMP). A determined adversary can achieve an EMP attack capability without having a
high level of sophistication.
EMP is one of a small number of threats that can hold our society at risk of
catastrophic consequences. EMP will cover the wide geographic region within line of
sight to the nuclear weapon. It has the capability to produce significant damage to critical
infrastructures and thus to the very fabric of US society, as well as to the ability of the
United States and Western nations to project influence and military power.
The common element that can produce such an impact from EMP is primarily
electronics, so pervasive in all aspects of our society and military, coupled through
critical infrastructures. Our vulnerability is increasing daily as our use of and dependence
on electronics continues to grow. The impact of EMP is asymmetric in relation to
potential protagonists who are not as dependent on modern electronics.
The current vulnerability of our critical infrastructures can both invite and reward
attack if not corrected. Correction is feasible and well within the Nation's means and
resources to accomplish.
http://empcommission.org/reports.php
From the executive summary...
It is possible for the functional outages to become mutually reinforcing until at some point the degradation of infrastructure could have irreversible effects on the country’s ability to support its population.
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Alllll righty, now...
Not that I'm an expert on EMP weapons, mind you, but there are several factors that have to be gotten just right in order to produce an EMP sufficient to actually affect electrical and electronic systems on the ground.
Also, while low yield fission weapons can produce a significant EMP when compared to thermonuclear (fusion) weapons, their effect is much more localized than larger fusion weapons. So the use of low yield fission weapons would not affect nearly as large of an area. So the overall debilitating effect to the country as a whole would be dramatically reduced.
Also, because low yield fission weapons would produce a smaller effect on the geomagnetic field itself, it's ability to cause damage by current induction in transmission lines is much less pronounced.
Now, when you consider the geographically large nature of the continental United States, the effects of the kinds of weapons North Korea has will not be nearly so wide spread as alarmists would have us fear. Not by a long shot.
Add to this the practicalities of attempting a nuclear EMP attack and there are other significant uncertainties which North Korea would have to overcome. Not saying they can't, but they would have one h*ll of a time doing so and being in any way successful. To be able to most effectively determine all the factors required for a successful EMP attack would require a bit of actual testing of many systems and strategies designed to perfect this kind of attack. And those are easily monitored.
First, they have to get a weapon launched over the United States, at the proper altitude to maximize the effect, under naturally varying conditions. They have to be able to target the weapon's point of detonation to be able to "aim" the EMP effect...because it's not something where the EMP effect is felt immediately under the point of detonation. The EMP pulse is conducted along the geomagnetic field, and given the geographical location of the United States within that magnetic field, that means the area of "EMP impact" would be largely to the South of the point of detonation. So they have to get the weapon at the right altitude under the current natural conditions at that time for the weapon design and type of yield, placed in the right location to correctly "aim" the EMP to their intended target in order to cause maximum damage.
And absolutely NONE of this in any way prevents our ability to take on North Korea in the military conflict that would ensue immediately following the attack. None of our forces are going to be located anywhere near a continental target area, and our major military assets are designed and built with EMP protection. So an EMP attack won't "save" North Korea at all. Pretty much, it'll be the stick poking the hornet's nest.
Not that I'm an expert on EMP weapons, mind you, but there are several factors that have to be gotten just right in order to produce an EMP sufficient to actually affect electrical and electronic systems on the ground.
Also, while low yield fission weapons can produce a significant EMP when compared to thermonuclear (fusion) weapons, their effect is much more localized than larger fusion weapons. So the use of low yield fission weapons would not affect nearly as large of an area. So the overall debilitating effect to the country as a whole would be dramatically reduced.
Also, because low yield fission weapons would produce a smaller effect on the geomagnetic field itself, it's ability to cause damage by current induction in transmission lines is much less pronounced.
Now, when you consider the geographically large nature of the continental United States, the effects of the kinds of weapons North Korea has will not be nearly so wide spread as alarmists would have us fear. Not by a long shot.
Add to this the practicalities of attempting a nuclear EMP attack and there are other significant uncertainties which North Korea would have to overcome. Not saying they can't, but they would have one h*ll of a time doing so and being in any way successful. To be able to most effectively determine all the factors required for a successful EMP attack would require a bit of actual testing of many systems and strategies designed to perfect this kind of attack. And those are easily monitored.
First, they have to get a weapon launched over the United States, at the proper altitude to maximize the effect, under naturally varying conditions. They have to be able to target the weapon's point of detonation to be able to "aim" the EMP effect...because it's not something where the EMP effect is felt immediately under the point of detonation. The EMP pulse is conducted along the geomagnetic field, and given the geographical location of the United States within that magnetic field, that means the area of "EMP impact" would be largely to the South of the point of detonation. So they have to get the weapon at the right altitude under the current natural conditions at that time for the weapon design and type of yield, placed in the right location to correctly "aim" the EMP to their intended target in order to cause maximum damage.
And absolutely NONE of this in any way prevents our ability to take on North Korea in the military conflict that would ensue immediately following the attack. None of our forces are going to be located anywhere near a continental target area, and our major military assets are designed and built with EMP protection. So an EMP attack won't "save" North Korea at all. Pretty much, it'll be the stick poking the hornet's nest.
EMP is for the far right what global warming is to the far left. There is a factual basis for belief in both, but there is also a thick layer of self-serving bullspit on top.
Part of the reality is that it wouldn't take an EMP to bring the electric grid down and into a state it would take at least months to fix. There is a fairly recent book out by Ted Kopel called Lights Out that discusses this. It was recommended by a coworker. If I ever finish it, I'll put it in the CFF book club for pay it forward.
Well placed bullets could have the same effect. Not sure if anything came of those sub stations that were fired on out in California in one week. Some were saying that it was a test.
Yes, it could. One of the key premises is that there are just a few critical switches or stations and especially transformers that if you take those out, you will disable a large part of the national system and with no spares and manufacturing all overseas, it would be devastating and take a long time to recover.
georgel
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Funny how that story never made the mainstream. It was classified as vandalism. Very orchestrated and we'll timed vandalism, with an AK.
There was another probe at another power plant that same week.
georgel
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I appreciate this information. But, it makes me think of an article I saw that compared American weapons philosophies with Russia. American's are carefully thought out, precise and sophisticated. Russia's are crude and functional.
So, this comment from the abstract of the commission report above is misguided?
"A determined adversary can achieve an EMP attack capability without having a
high level of sophistication."
Also, the report references known testing by America and Russia that created EMP effects
even though that was not the intended design.
ETA
The other danger is if a third party, with the capability and sophistication, were to launch an effective attack and then mask the source of the attack. Thus leaving the US with an uncertain target to counterstrike.
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There is a lot to be said for that...but remember, what the Soviet Union lacked in high level sophistication, they made up for in quantity and power.
North Korea is not "dumb" in their weapons programs. You don't get the results they're getting by being dumb. But each milestone has significant hurdles to pass, and then being able to pull off a successful attack such as an EMP attack, is yet another significant hurdle in and of itself.
Can't say they can't do it...but it would be a significant challenge, and the mechanisms required to design, build, and test such weapons are easily detectable and monitored. So we'd pretty much know their capabilities as they're being developed...and that's at least half the battle in being able to counter such things.
People bring up some good points here.
You don't need an EMP weapon to cause widespread, and horribly expensive, damage to our electrical power distribution system.
Terrorists have already demonstrated the ability to plan and carry out coordinated attacks using minimal expenses which cause serious damage and loss of life.
Say a dozen people get together...or a hundred. It wouldn't be THAT difficult for these people. All they need are decent, high powered bolt action rifles, say 30-06. Assuming they can actually shoot a rifle straight (not that difficult, especially for people who may have been raised to contribute to armed conflict), pretty much all they have to do is map out the locations of a number of sub stations in a region of the country. Scope the areas out, then stage personnel at pre-determined dates and times to take action all at the same time. All they have to do is shoot the transformers at these substations.
Or imagine floating underwater high explosives down Lake Mead to the Hoover Dam. Don't have to take out the dam itself, though that would be horrific. A few bombs successively sucked up into the turbine intakes and the facility is out for the count.
You don't need an EMP weapon to cause widespread, and horribly expensive, damage to our electrical power distribution system.
Terrorists have already demonstrated the ability to plan and carry out coordinated attacks using minimal expenses which cause serious damage and loss of life.
Say a dozen people get together...or a hundred. It wouldn't be THAT difficult for these people. All they need are decent, high powered bolt action rifles, say 30-06. Assuming they can actually shoot a rifle straight (not that difficult, especially for people who may have been raised to contribute to armed conflict), pretty much all they have to do is map out the locations of a number of sub stations in a region of the country. Scope the areas out, then stage personnel at pre-determined dates and times to take action all at the same time. All they have to do is shoot the transformers at these substations.
Or imagine floating underwater high explosives down Lake Mead to the Hoover Dam. Don't have to take out the dam itself, though that would be horrific. A few bombs successively sucked up into the turbine intakes and the facility is out for the count.
OP
An EMP doesn't have to come from an enemy, a sufficient solar flare would generate an EMP just as devastating as weapons designed for the task. The event in 2012 would have done so if it had hit us, and it doesn't take fake science and a globalist conspiracy to prove it.
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