Good Morning Gents............
Yes Jim I did indeed try faster powders not only with the 9mms but with the 45 ACPs as well with these Lighter for Caliber bullets. Bullseye and Unique primarily. You are not thinking incorrectly, conventional logic and reason would dictate that the faster powder would yield the higher velocity. But the other factor is this, the faster powders reach high peak pressure faster as well, and sometimes beats the velocity to the punch so to speak. Or at least that is one theory I have concerning this.
In all rifle cartridges I have worked with, and especially all big bore cartridges. If you go light for caliber, you run faster powders, and in most of these big bores that is H-4198 and or RL 7, which is much faster than the powders used for the heavier bullets. Put in simple terms as possible you can't run enough slow powders in the bore to build velocity that can be achieved, so you have to run faster powders with faster peaks, at least to a point. Regardless of cartridge, this has been the case, whether it is B&Ms or the more traditional 458 Winchester, 458 Lott and so forth.
When I decided to run pressures in 45 ACP to work with the 150 Raptors, I had been using Unique and Bullseye, what I would call max loads just doing case study. I was shooting for +P pressures with the 150 Raptor, which as I recall is 22000-23000 PSI. My loads with the Unique and Bullseye were indeed Max, a little too max at 25000 PSI, and I did not like the extremes I was getting either. These Max Loads gave me 1273 fps in 5 inch guns with the 150 Raptors.
I then started trying a variety of other powders, most slower than Bullseye and Unique. I had several promising powders, but one stood out and that was Winchester WSF. I started running tests with WSF and found that I reached 1255 fps in a 5 inch gun with the 150 Raptor at just under 21000 PSI, extremes were much better as well. Gun and brass taking less beating as well.
Moving this same load down to the Ultras with the shorter barrels I actually was getting more velocity with the WSF than the faster peak Bullseye and Unique loads. With WSF I get 1090 fps in the Ultras, and with the Unique and Bullseye 1060 fps.
In 2017 when I discovered the 120 Lehigh Extremes in 45 ACP, I reverted back to my old ways, and went with a heavy dose of Bullseye for 1320 fps and called it a day. I did not really dive into a research project with it.
It was only 2019 when I decided to investigate matters a bit further with several powders, but not doing pressures. Again, WSF seemed to come out, and when I got to top end I was now hitting 1450 fps in 5 inch guns with the same bullet, and brass and guns taking less of a beating than with the faster peak of Bullseye. I dropped down to test in the Shield and the Bullseye load gave me 1166 fps and the WSF load 1330.........
These two lighter bullets gave much better performance in both standard barrels and much shorter barrels with the slower WSF than they did with the Faster Bullseye and Unique. One load proven with pressure equipment, the other to experience and case study.
Moving on to 9mm............
First, I have never tested pressures in 9mm. I don't have a 9mm barrel for a Contender, or any other firearm that is capable of using a strain gage. Like most of us I load some stuff up and go about my business, based on prior loads or other data.
In 2014 I started loading the 90 CEB Raptors, and of course back to basics with Bullseye. When the 90 Lehighs came about I used the same loads of Bullseye with it and went about my business........
Late 2019
@BatteryOaksBilly asked for a heavy load with 147 gr FMJ bullets. I decided to do a "Case Study", in which I took several different Factory rounds and got a case head expansion average on fired cases of several different brands I had on hand. In this way, I would work loads up to meet that case expansion maximums, therefore coming close to those pressures. There are some faults to this, such as brass, I had to use whatever new brass I had on hand, and not the exact factory brass measured. But life is not always perfect, so we go with what we have and use our better judgment and experience to move things forward.
There is a lot of difference in 147 and 90 gr in 9mm. One does not expect the heavier bullet to perform with the same powders that a 90 will perform at. With the 147s primary I looked at several powders, some where along the line someone suggested or I saw somewhere that V- 3N38 gave good results with the 147s. At that time I was fortunate to find a couple of lbs, and while I was shopping for powders, I looked at V- 3N37, and that appeared to be dandy for lighter bullets in 9mm..... I got both to try.
I worked with WSF, Power Pistol, BlueDot, and V-3N38 with the 147s and all gave some promising results, some would duplicate with V-3N38 which is what I ended up going with for that load.
Then I went to work with the V-3N37 and the 90 gr bullets. I had the Bullseye load I was using, and it had already exceeded the Benchmark case expansion. I worked up loads with the V-3N37 to equal factory benchmark expansion and ended up equal to and exceeding Bullseye velocity, but with much less case expansion. So off we go................
With the 90 Raptor in a BHP velocity ran 1364 with the V and 1346 with the Bullseye. With the 90 Lehigh the same load of V-3N37 run 1422 fps in the BHP.
Now, for the Sig 938 and the 90 Lehigh with Bullseye load I hit 1233 fps and with the V-3N37 load 1265 fps.................
@JimB yes this does in many ways defy our conventional logic, I agree. And I really do not have a definitive answer simply because I have not studied the various handgun pressures and anomaly's that I have with rifle cartridges. It is my theory that we reach PEAK pressures with the faster powders before we hit max velocities. The slightly slower powders allow that peak to stretch out a bit, and get to a bit higher velocity than the higher pressure peak allows.
When we move to the heavier bullets 115s in particular I still use the Bullseye. I don't care for the 147s much, except in sub-sonic mode, and there again for that, I am using Bullseye in that capacity as well........ Moving to higher end velocities I would look for something else........
Yeah, I know, I can never just do it with a few words............ Long winded, its why
@BatteryOaksBilly takes naps while I do this................
