why a 10mm PCC?

[Flashpoint]

This is just food for thought, and I realize we are getting way off track of the OP but I wouldn’t base my decision of what to use for HD on what’s going to cause the least hearing damage. That is beyond silly IMHO. Guns are loud, especially indoors…all of them will give you some degree of hearing damage, but if you are in a situation where you are firing a gun off in your house at someone, trust me, that is going to be the last thing you could possibly care about. And also trust me on this, you won’t even hear the shots.

A more important factor to consider when selecting a HD weapon IMO is penetration. Believe it or not, the fact is, 5.56 penetrates walls and other obstacles in a home a lot less than 9mm (or any other pistol cal.) does.

All this was to say, choose your weapon based on what fits your particular situation and needs. Whether that be a pistol/SBR/PCC/Shotgun/rifle, whatever it is “Hearing loss” should not even be on the criteria list. This is coming from someone who has had a pretty substantial hearing threshold shift since my initial baseline as a direct result of shooting indoors….a lot. But believe me, in the situations I was shooting indoors at lease….I would not have chosen a PCC given the choice.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Adrenalin, etc. protects only your perception at the moment and will not protect you from rupturing an ear drum.

Did you ever fire a 5.56 SBR in a hallway with nothing (not even a helmet) on your ears?

I expect no one would bat an eye if i said my HD weapon was a handgun. But a braced PCC (arguably better in every way)? Sacrilige!! Why in the world would you go to all the trouble to pick up something a little bigger than a pistol and not utilize maximum firepower! 🙄

 

[Dan0311]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Adrenalin, etc. protects only your perception at the moment and will not protect you from rupturing an ear drum.

Did you ever fire a 5.56 SBR in a hallway with nothing (not even a helmet) on your ears?

I expect no one would bat an eye if i said my HD weapon was a handgun. But a braced PCC (arguably better in every way)? Sacrilige!! Why in the world would you go to all the trouble to pick up something a little bigger than a pistol and not utilize maximum firepower! 🙄

I think you're overreacting.

I said 'you do you'. I personally don't care if you chose a .22 short for your defensive firearm as sound and recoil management would be better than a 5.56mm. I would just say I disagree.

My duty longarm for a couple of decades was an 11.5" select-fire AR. Between the Marine Corps and 32+ years in LE, I HAVE had rifle rounds - and bigger, go off near me without hearing protection. If you know about hearing loss, you know that an occasional very loud noise is less harmful than protracted lesser noise.

If YOU feel that when it comes time for your defensive shooting, that you rather protect your future hearing than getting the MUCH better round on target - that's cool with me, but we'll never be roommates.

 

[Flashpoint]

I think you're overreacting.

I said 'you do you'. I personally don't care if you chose a .22 short for your defensive firearm as sound and recoil management would be better than a 5.56mm. I would just say I disagree.

My duty longarm for a couple of decades was an 11.5" select-fire AR. Between the Marine Corps and 32+ years in LE, I HAVE had rifle rounds - and bigger, go off near me without hearing protection. If you know about hearing loss, you know that an occasional very loud noise is less harmful than protracted lesser noise.

If YOU feel that when it comes time for your defensive shooting, that you rather protect your future hearing than getting the MUCH better round on target - that's cool with me, but we'll never be roommates.

I think you're overreacting.

I said 'you do you'. I personally don't care if you chose a .22 short for your defensive firearm as sound and recoil management would be better than a 5.56mm. I would just say I disagree.

My duty longarm for a couple of decades was an 11.5" select-fire AR. Between the Marine Corps and 32+ years in LE, I HAVE had rifle rounds - and bigger, go off near me without hearing protection. If you know about hearing loss, you know that an occasional very loud noise is less harmful than protracted lesser noise.

If YOU feel that when it comes time for your defensive shooting, that you rather protect your future hearing than getting the MUCH better round on target - that's cool with me, but we'll never be roommates.

Thank you for your service and I respect your experience. However I noticed:
1. You didn't say you ever shot that 11.5" AR in a hallway with nothing over your ears. I've read that that can generate enough pressure to actually rupture an eardrum. If you know that to be untrue please say so.
2. Why wouldn't you use .308 or .270, etc? Aren't they more effective? You can get them in ARs as well.

The OP can correct me if im wrong, but i think this discussion is exactly on topic and we're all here to learn.

 

[Derek8404]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Adrenalin, etc. protects only your perception at the moment and will not protect you from rupturing an ear drum.

Did you ever fire a 5.56 SBR in a hallway with nothing (not even a helmet) on your ears?

I expect no one would bat an eye if i said my HD weapon was a handgun. But a braced PCC (arguably better in every way)? Sacrilige!! Why in the world would you go to all the trouble to pick up something a little bigger than a pistol and not utilize maximum firepower! 🙄

Not sure why 5.56 SBR in a hallway is your go to (also not sure why you think a helmet provides any kind of ear protection…..) but to answer that specific question, no, I have not specifically shot that specific setup in a hallway…..that being said, I have however fired a 14.5 M4 from inside a house out a window (many times) while several of my closet friends did as well and another buddy was kind enough to fire off his SAW right next to my face. Buddy, you don’t know the definition of loud until you feel that going off around your face.

I think you are confused. I know am not, and I’m pretty sure @Dan0311 is not trying to tell you, your choice is right or wrong, only you can decide that. All I’m saying, is choosing based off how “loud” you think a gun will be if you have to use it is makes no sense.

 

[Flashpoint]

A typical barrel length for a braced pistol/SBR is 10". At least that's what mine is.

I'll just leave these here:

 

[Derek8404]

A typical barrel length for a braced pistol/SBR is 10". At least that's what mine is.

I'll just leave these here:
View attachment 370854
View attachment 370855

What point is this supposed to make?

 

[thrillhill]

If restricted to an 8-10 inch barrel I would MUCH rather shoot deer, hog and black bear (or any other flesh and bone based critter) with a 10mm PCC than a 5.56 "pistol". But only from 0-75 yards. Past 75 yards I'd switch my choice back to the 5.56 especially if it was at least a 10 or 10+ inch barrel.

There is a night and day difference between the results of those two on the flesh I have "autopsied" over the years. Night and day. But there are obvious distance restrictions in play there.

 

[Dan0311]

Thank you for your service and I respect your experience. However I noticed:
1. You didn't say you ever shot that 11.5" AR in a hallway with nothing over your ears. I've read that that can generate enough pressure to actually rupture an eardrum. If you know that to be untrue please say so.
2. Why wouldn't you use .308 or .270, etc? Aren't they more effective? You can get them in ARs as well.

The OP can correct me if im wrong, but i think this discussion is exactly on topic and we're all here to learn.

1. Not that I recall; flashbangs, yes, but a short-barreled carbine in a hallway - not sure. But like I posted, I've been around louder w/o ear pro, including belt-feds and other things that go boom.
2. If I thought I was about to, or had a good chance of a gunfight - you bet your ass I'd want a good, magazine-fed .308 over just about anything - most definitely over a PCC. "Bring enough gun" comes to mind.

I've seen more than my share of people shot and I've seen what bullets do. "Shot placement" that I read all over the virtual gun rags is cute. But it's not always a reality when both people are scared, shooting, running, ducking, squirming, etc. What I'm much more interested in is what bullets do when they don't hit 'center mass' - like 98% of street shootings.

I was under the impression we were talking about PISTOL CALIBER CARBINES, not short-barreled, AR pistols using shouldered arm braces. This is something you introduced into this conversation, not me and not the OP.

Lastly, I do not know the true ballistics of a short-barreled 5.56 vs. a short-barreled 10mm, but I think your chart shows the .223 with slightly more energy if both through 11.5" barrels. Did you accidentally lose the argument that I wasn't having?

 

[NKD]

That’s it. Totally convinced.
I’m giving up the guns and going with a broadsword to save my hearing.

 

[thrillhill]

That’s it. Totally convinced.
I’m giving up the guns and going with a broadsword to save my hearing.

Keep coming at it from the perspective of paper range and competitions as the only factors and maybe one day I'll ride a bike down a paved road out here. See. We can all learn.

 

[NKD]

Keep coming at it from the perspective of paper range and competitions as the only factors and maybe one day I'll ride a bike down a paved road out here. See. We can all learn.

Joust is going to be a better option for bicycles.

But a lot of truth in there.