WPD Sergeant tells Uber Driver/Attorney that recording him is illegal

[J R Green]

So a dog sitting and looking at the car is the alert? That's not easy? Give me an afternoon and a box of milkbones and I can teach any dog to sit on verbal command, hand gesture, click, finger snap, etc. You name it.

Whats to stop an officer from giving a silent 'sit' gesture to his dog, have the dog sit and look at the car? The dog gets his biscuit when he gets back in the patrol car. Nobody but the cop and the dog know their little trick, and no one is talking. Later, the officer can just say "well fido smelled drugs in the car. The perp must have had drugs in his car earlier that day, honest!" When his illegal search doesn't turn up anything he can turn into a case.

It can be done and most likely does. As I've said, I trust the dog, not so much the handler.

The reason it doesn't happen everywhere though is K-9 handlers have to do a report on every search they do complete with the results. Fake hits would blow their stats eventually causing them to loose their accreditation.

 

[RJT]

A few other points to think about. For those that think k-9s should be done away with. Dogs are used for many different things including explosive detection. Bombs are just as illegal or more illegal than drugs. Bomb dog sniffs a Uhaul Truck after a traffic stop and finds a bomb is that bad? The same argument could apply to bomb dogs that an officer makes his dog "false alert" just to get to do a search. Also, dogs can not cross trained to find explosives and drugs it is either one or the other. My point is k-9 are a proven valuable tool to military and LE for many years and have saved countless lives. They have helped locate lost kids and people, they have found evidence that solved a crime, they have found explosives that saved lives, they have found bodies, they have saved an officer and civilians by being able to track or take down a bad guy, and the list goes on. I am just saying a lot more good comes from k-9s than bad.

 

[The Green Heron]

Blah blah blah....I ain't reading all that. How bout we just stick with they said the dog alerted when he didn't. That one is pretty easy to do, and the most logical scenario.

 

[Jakerson9]

Nice honest people, geniuses, people with character and integrity, generous souls, idiots, liars, thieves and assholes all come in every shape, color, religion and line of work.

Some people fall into all of the categories on the same day. Or the same internet thread.

 

[Cowboy]

The one I really like is when the k-9 handler smells marijuana at a higher rate than his dog.

 

[JohnFreeman]

Cops can lie to you, intimidate you, and invent indications from a drug dog that you're carrying drugs. It's BS but the force of law is on their side and we're expected to suck it up.

I don't think they should be shot for this, but I do think they should he handed their pink slips and indicted a lot more often than they are.

 

[Wahoo95]

Just think, stops like that happen to some people all the time as in much more often than most others. It's not hard to see how some people can truly get fed up with having their rights trampled on. What I witnessed in that video is really much more common than many would choose to believe.

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[MacEntyre]

It ain't anti-Cop, it's anti-Thug. When a Cop lies and intimidates, calls a detainee names, makes up laws... he's a Thug. He oughta get what a Thug or a Bully deserves, but he won't, 'cause he's got a badge and the department always defends his actions, saying no laws were broken, yada yada.

 

[Wahoo95]

It ain't anti-Cop, it's anti-Thug. When a Cop lies and intimidates, calls a detainee names, makes up laws... he's a Thug. He oughta get what a Thug or a Bully deserves, but he won't, 'cause he's got a badge and the department always defends his actions, saying no laws were broken, yada yada.

Problem is the public has found this style of policing acceptable for some for far too long not realizing they eventually become victims of it as well. It's like the I support 2A BUT,.....guys and Fudd who will eventually find their rights getting squashed too.

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[Starkherz199]

What gets me is that multiple LEO'S from different departments stood around and didn't speak up. 1 bad video like this negates the influence of 100,000 good cops. The "thin blue line" culture is self defeating.

 

[noway2]

Problem is the public has found this style of policing acceptable for some for far too long not realizing they eventually become victims of it as well. It's like the I support 2A BUT,.....guys and Fudd who will eventually find their rights getting squashed too.

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Which is a lot of why I don't have faith in the system to self police and deal with thud sort of nonsense and suggested that a The People consider the option of dealing with it when it happens, as long as they recognize that freedom is sometimes messy.

The earlier post was correct. When cops act this way, they're no longer "officers" they're street thugs.

 

[ChickenHawk]

View attachment 3861

What gets me is that multiple LEO'S from different departments stood around and didn't speak up. 1 bad video like this negates the influence of 100,000 good cops. The "thin blue line" culture is self defeating.

That is what bothered me more than anything. My first thought was "good thing all of those good cops standing around are telling the one bad apple to back off like we hear all of the time."

 

[Wahoo95]

View attachment 3861

What gets me is that multiple LEO'S from different departments stood around and didn't speak up. 1 bad video like this negates the influence of 100,000 good cops. The "thin blue line" culture is self defeating.

I've always said bad cops exist because good cops allow them to exist and work alongside them which makes it easier to understand why some people really see them as all the same.

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[J R Green]

I've always said bad cops exist because good cops allow them to exist and work alongside them which makes it easier to understand why some people really see them as all the same.

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Not trying to defend the behavior but when was the last time you called a co-workers dumb-assery in front of a customer? Do you, in the name of justice, open yourself and your agency to potential lawsuits with yourself as the star witness against yourself?

It's just not done in any industry so why would it be different here?

This is not to say that someone shouldn't have told a supervisor later though.

 

[Wahoo95]

Not trying to defend the behavior but when was the last time you called a co-workers dumb-assery in front of a customer? Do you, in the name of justice, open yourself and your agency to potential lawsuits with yourself as the star witness against yourself?

It's just not done in any industry so why would it be different here?

This is not to say that someone shouldn't have told a supervisor later though.

I get what you're saying but the reality is its not getting called out internally either. If it were we wouldn't see so many cases where some bad cop has multiple complaints for the same bad behavior and no actions taken. Had a conversation with CMPD brass about this topic and they showed the stats on the number of complaints filed by fellow officers in the department and it was actually impressive. I commended them on what they're doing with the department but pointed out they're the exception not the norm.

I realize that all cops are not bad people, however I don't trust any of them no more than they trust me. Having been subject to their BS myself I can see why some people really do lump them all in one basket as unfair as that may seem. I guess they're just treating them the way that they're being treated.

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[The Green Heron]

Just think, stops like that happen to some people all the time as in much more often than most others. It's not hard to see how some people can truly get fed up with having their rights trampled on. What I witnessed in that video is really much more common than many would choose to believe.

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Ok...You brought this up and played the race card with great subtlety.
My first comments were after reading the transcript of the traffic stop. I had no idea what color these people were until I watched the video, and that is where I made the comment about 6 cops.
I am glad to say I formed the right opinion before I knew anyone's color.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Not trying to defend the behavior but when was the last time you called a co-workers dumb-assery in front of a customer? Do you, in the name of justice, open yourself and your agency to potential lawsuits with yourself as the star witness against yourself?

It's just not done in any industry so why would it be different here?

This is not to say that someone shouldn't have told a supervisor later though.

The difference is that you aren't violating your customer's constitutional rights, and are also not a public servant like the police are. It'd be like watching a judge make up law from the bench, and waiting for afterwards to correct them. They were corrected, but the public perception wasn't helped and that person may still get boned by the system since no one stepped up when the violations were happening.

 

[11B CIB]

Not trying to defend the behavior but when was the last time you called a co-workers dumb-assery in front of a customer? Do you, in the name of justice, open yourself and your agency to potential lawsuits with yourself as the star witness against yourself?

It's just not done in any industry so why would it be different here?

This is not to say that someone shouldn't have told a supervisor later though.

Being a Drill Sergeant and having to deal with Soldiers in Training for several years, there is a regulation manual that deals with conduct of training cadre: TRADOC 350-6. It spells out basically everything you can and cannot do. Crossing the line from legal to illegal is VERY easy, and it can be as simple as smoking them too hard, or too little sleep (especially before live fire or whatever), and then you have the trainees that don't want to be there and buck up to the cadre, or opposite sex trainees trying to "show off" for a particular cadre member. There's an infinite number of things that could go wrong easily that started out right. We had a system that allowed the other cadre who could see the situation without blinders that allowed them to step in and correct the situation, because depending on the nature of the offense, the entire company, battalion, etc could be at risk. You don't tell them they're out of line right in front of the trainees; you tell them something like "You have a phone call in the commander's office". That way, they can be pulled offline, the trainee is none the wiser, and everyone goes home and not in handcuffs or with lower rank/pay.

I don't know if it's a cultural thing in the law enforcement world, where you can't correct another officer PERIOD, but they really should work it out and understand that one officer can do a lot of bad for a whole lot of them if they are left unchecked.

When one cop shouts "Gun!", the others instinctively trust the initial officer, and react accordingly. Maybe I need to give the 2nd officer in the video the benefit of the doubt in that he heard the first officer mention a law having changed and he put his trust in that claim as well. Who knows.

I do disagree with the one officer towards the end of the video when the driver is mentioning something he was told, and the officer says "Did I say that? Did those words come out of my mouth?" Dude...if there are six of you in the same traffic stop, and one officer tells him something, ALL of you told him. If one cop says "Keep your hands there", it sort of applies as if everyone said it, so the "I didn't say that" remark doesn't hold water for me. Someone in a position of authority "went there", and the driver was reacting to it.

 

[J R Green]

@11B CIB "You don't tell them they're out of line right in front of the trainees;" That's all I was saying here.

"I do disagree with the one officer towards the end of the video when the driver is mentioning something he was told, and the officer says "Did I say that? Did those words come out of my mouth?" Dude...if there are six of you in the same traffic stop, and one officer tells him something, ALL of you told him." No one can be held accountable for someone else's words I't doesn't matter the circumstances.

 

[11B CIB]

"I do disagree with the one officer towards the end of the video when the driver is mentioning something he was told, and the officer says "Did I say that? Did those words come out of my mouth?" Dude...if there are six of you in the same traffic stop, and one officer tells him something, ALL of you told him." No one can be held accountable for someone else's words I't doesn't matter the circumstances.

I mean that the driver doesn't (and can't) distinguish between any of the officers when given an instruction or told something is a certain way. If a different officer comes to the window, he is still under the initial instruction/set of circumstances/opinion/whatever. It's sort of like one officer telling him to freeze and another officer telling him hands up at different times without knowing what the other one said.

 

[SPST]

If you want to find a profession that holds your life in their hands but will never report wrongdoing or testify against one of their own, look no farther than the medical profession.
Any person in any profession should face consequences for wrongdoing. Reality is that that doesn't always happen.

 

[Cowboy]

If you want to find a profession that holds your life in their hands but will never report wrongdoing or testify against one of their own, look no farther than the medical profession.
Any person in any profession should face consequences for wrongdoing. Reality is that that doesn't always happen.

Way worse than anything the police do for sure. My mom was killed by a inexperianced doctor that screwed up a stitch in her stomach during surgery. It slowly poisoned her system and she died 7 days later swollen up like a basketball from becoming toxic. But you see the general public is not smart enough to understand how Doctors screw up. Police officers on the other hand have a very public job with what should be easily understood rules.

 

[noway2]

Police officers on the other hand have a very public job with what should be easily understood rules.

Do not make up "the law" by the seat of your pants and then threaten to throw somebody in jail and subject them to physical harassment when they still refuse for refusing to obey said made up "law" should pretty a pretty simple and obvious rule.

Like I an others have said, that his brothers in blue would stand by and tacitly support said activity says a lot.

 

[11B CIB]

Way worse than anything the police do for sure. My mom was killed by a inexperianced doctor that screwed up a stitch in her stomach during surgery. It slowly poisoned her system and she died 7 days later swollen up like a basketball from becoming toxic. But you see the general public is not smart enough to understand how Doctors screw up. Police officers on the other hand have a very public job with what should be easily understood rules.

I saw something amazing at my local VA recently.

Guy in his mid 50s went in for a stent, and was in the Cath Lab for the procedure. The doctor, who, during following conversations I gleaned to be a very experienced and "old hand" at the task, punctured an artery in the patient. A medical team was growing larger with personnel joining in the mad dash pushing the gurney from the Cath Lab to surgery with clean up crews wiping up the river of blood following the gurney, as blood was literally jettisoning onto the floor from the patient. A friend who works there told me they put 15 units of blood into him, meaning he lost his entire blood volume TWO TIMES over. Was in surgery for 8 hours to save his life.

 

[Cowboy]

I saw something amazing at my local VA recently.

Guy in his mid 50s went in for a stent, and was in the Cath Lab for the procedure. The doctor, who, during following conversations I gleaned to be a very experienced and "old hand" at the task, punctured an artery in the patient. A medical team was growing larger with personnel joining in the mad dash pushing the gurney from the Cath Lab to surgery with clean up crews wiping up the river of blood following the gurney, as blood was literally jettisoning onto the floor from the patient. A friend who works there told me they put 15 units of blood into him, meaning he lost his entire blood volume TWO TIMES over. Was in surgery for 8 hours to save his life.

This kind of stuff happens multiple times a day as well if you believe the statistics. Truth is it's probably twice whatever their statistics say.

 

[Cowboy]

Do not make up "the law" by the seat of your pants and then threaten to throw somebody in jail and subject them to physical harassment when they still refuse for refusing to obey said made up "law" should pretty a pretty simple and obvious rule.

Like I an others have said, that his brothers in blue would stand by and tacitly support said activity says a lot.

OK I wasn't disagreeing with you I was just making a point. You must be on edge today.

 

[noway2]

OK I wasn't disagreeing with you I was just making a point. You must be on edge today.

No, I'm not on edge and in all fairness your point is valid and I can appreciate the frustration to your side too.

 

[Cowboy]

No, I'm not on edge and in all fairness your point is valid and I can appreciate the frustration to your side too.

My side?

 

[J R Green]

My side?

Yeah... PIG.

 

[noway2]

My side?

I wouldn't have put it as crassly as J R did. Despite what you might think, I'm not anti-police. I am anti police-state and I am very opposed to much of what the government has been imposing on people and the police get the shitty job of enforcing it. I've also been severly let down by the so called "justice" system which makes me no fan if it. At the same time I can also appreciate dealing with the worst that society had to offer on a daily basis in what I'm sure is often times a thankless job for poor pay, but there is no excuse for this type of behavior which is all too common, meaning it is not being dealt with properly. It is highly offensive to me that the common man has no legitimate recourse other than to file a complaint after the fact while the any attempt to stand up to said officer is guaranteed to result in violence. It wrong and it needs to change.

 

[Cowboy]

I wouldn't have put it as crassly as J R did. Despite what you might think, I'm not anti-police. I am anti police-state and I am very opposed to much of what the government has been imposing on people and the police get the shitty job of enforcing it. I've also been severly let down by the so called "justice" system which makes me no fan if it. At the same time I can also appreciate dealing with the worst that society had to offer on a daily basis in what I'm sure is often times a thankless job for poor pay, but there is no excuse for this type of behavior which is all too common, meaning it is not being dealt with properly. It is highly offensive to me that the common man has no legitimate recourse other than to file a complaint after the fact while the any attempt to stand up to said officer is guaranteed to result in violence. It wrong and it needs to change.

Ok I'm not a police officer and never have been. Sometimes people hear and think what they want.
I wonder how many times you have seen something and taken it to the proper authorities to have it stopped. I on the other hand have stopped multiple situations in thier tracks in real life. Filed complaints against departments and specific officers with good results. I also understand officers are human and make honest mistakes and that is different than flat out dishonesty. I don't expect anyone to believe anything I say on the internet. But I am very neutral to what an officer does that is right,wrong or how they are taught in training. While I am NOT a police officer I do see lots of thier every day functions and probably understand more than a lay person.

 

[J R Green]

Ok I'm not a police officer and never have been. Sometimes people hear and think what they want.
I wonder how many times you have seen something and taken it to the proper authorities to have it stopped. I on the other hand have stopped multiple situations in thier tracks in real life. Filed complaints against departments and specific officers with good results. I also understand officers are human and make honest mistakes and that is different than flat out dishonesty. I don't expect anyone to believe anything I say on the internet. But I am very neutral to what an officer does that is right,wrong or how they are taught in training. While I am NOT a police officer I do see lots of thier every day functions and probably understand more than a lay person.

And I knew that. My point was to illustrate the us vs them mind set that prevails here. And it's coming from our side!

You think that everyone has to be in agreement with you or they must be one of them.

 

[Cowboy]

And I knew that. My point was to illustrate the us vs them mind set that prevails here. And it's coming from our side!

You think that everyone has to be in agreement with you or they must be one of them.

I can agree with lots of things from different people but it's always which side are you on. The fact is that there needs to be people working to fix both sides of the conversation not just screaming to burn the other side down.

 

[MacEntyre]

I've always said bad cops exist because good cops allow them to exist and work alongside them which makes it easier to understand why some people really see them as all the same.

If good cops allow bad cops to exist, then they are all the same.

Criminals and accessories to a crime are both criminals.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I kind of lost track here, so I don't know if the issue has been addressed in a posting where the sheriff made his comments on this. I'm smelling a law suit in the near future:


http://www.starnewsonline.com/news/...-can-be-recorded-after-uber-drivers-complaint

Sheriff, chief confirm police can be recorded after Uber driver’s complaint

Wilmington Police Chief Ralph Evangelous said his department has launched an internal investigation into the matter and the conduct of the police sergeant at the call.

By F.T. Norton StarNews Staff

WILMINGTON -- After a traffic stop last month in which an Uber driver captured video of officers telling him it was illegal to film police, New Hanover County Sheriff Ed McMahon and Wilmington Police Chief Ralph Evangelous issued statements Wednesday saying that information is incorrect.

Evangelous additionally said in his statement that his department has launched an internal investigation into the matter and the conduct of the police sergeant at the call. Evangelous did not identify the sergeant.

On Feb. 26, part-time Uber driver and criminal defense attorney Jesse Bright was stopped by police after leaving with a passenger from a house on Thrasher Court, Bright said. After removing the passenger from the car and searching him, the officers -- members of the Mobile Field Force, a joint operation between the WPD and sheriff's office -- turned their attention back to Bright, who was recording the incident on his cellphone, he said.

“The police said they were going to search my vehicle, to which I refused,” Bright wrote in a message to the StarNews. “One of the officers told me that it was against the law to film the police, and told me to stop recording. When I refused, he came to my side of the vehicle and ordered me to get out, because he was taking me to jail for filming the police. I refused, and locked the door.”

Bright said the Wilmington Police Department officer attempted to open the door and then told Bright he “better hope they don’t find anything in his car.”

“At that time he stepped away and asked dispatch to send a K-9 unit. When he did that, I asked the New Hanover Sheriff’s (deputy) that was standing there if there was really a law against filming the police, and he confirmed that it was illegal to film the police and said it was recently passed," Bright wrote.

Eventually, Bright said, he and his vehicle were searched under his protests -- all of which he captured in three videos of the incident. Nothing was found and neither Bright nor his passenger were arrested.

 

[SPM]

Nothing was found and neither Bright nor his passenger were arrested.

So all this puffing of chests, threats of violence, flexing of authority and subsequent PR nightmare results in nothing?

I'm smelling a law suit in the near future:

Unfortunately, I don't think most officers really care about this aspect, as they don't pay any settlements. Ultimately, our fellow taxpayers are on the hook for monetary damages due to malfeasance and malice.

They really don't have any skin in the game....

 

[11B CIB]

So all this puffing of chests, threats of violence, flexing of authority and subsequent PR nightmare results in nothing?

No, they now have a story to tell about pulling over an Uber driver who was, you'll never guess, an attorney! Now I've seen everything! C'mon, who's next? I wanna hear a good one

 

[SPM]

No, they now have a story to tell about pulling over an Uber driver who was, you'll never guess, an attorney! Now I've seen everything! C'mon, who's next? I wanna hear a good one

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So all this puffing of chests, threats of violence, flexing of authority and subsequent PR nightmare results in nothing?

Keep in mind...I am not the one who made that statement...it came from the article I copy/pasted into my post after the link.

If you read MY actual comment, just prior to the link I posted, you'll see that I believe a law suit is coming. And, in my opinion, rightfully so.

 

[SPM]

Keep in mind...I am not the one who made that statement...it came from the article I copy/pasted into my post after the link.

If you read MY actual comment, just prior to the link I posted, you'll see that I believe a law suit is coming. And, in my opinion, rightfully so.

I realize that.....I wasn't attributing the quote to you, though I can see how the quote function may have made it seem that way.

Apologies for the inference, 'twas not the intent.