Fudd-free Range Recommendations around Raleigh or Eastern NC

rbell2915 said:
It is the same because they are treating people like criminals until proven otherwise.

That is the equivalent of demanding to see someone's W2, 1099s, or tax returns.
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No. They are just covering their rear ends. People near ranges can be a real pain. They often go out of their way looking for something to get the range in trouble. Been there, done that, don't want to have that happen to me again. You may, unfortunately, run into such problems when you are lucky enough to get your own range. A stray bullet over your burm can really put you in hot water whether it hurt anything or not. The sound of automatic gunfire can cause people to call the LEO on you, and they probably will ask to see your stamp. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and lots of people out there are just looking to make trouble for a range owner.
 
Charlie said:
No. They are just covering their rear ends. People near ranges can be a real pain. They often go out of their way looking for something to get the range in trouble. Been there, done that, don't want to have that happen to me again. You may, unfortunately, run into such problems when you are lucky enough to get your own range. A stray bullet over your burm can really put you in hot water whether it hurt anything or not. The sound of automatic gunfire can cause people to call the LEO on you, and they probably will ask to see your stamp. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and lots of people out there are just looking to make trouble for a range owner.
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Hard disagree. Regardless, this range is in the middle of nowhere with no neighbors. The only people being a PITA are the fudd RSOs. You also do not need to show LEOs your stamps either. Only the ATF or IRS as this is tax related.
 
They don't ask at Triangle Shooting Academy in Raleigh or at Frontline Defense. I'm a member at both ranges and own suppressors and SBR.

www.triangleshootingacademy.com

Triangle Shooting Academy North Carolina’s firearm destination for all.

From beginner home defense classes to automatic range rentals, we’re certain to be a target you won’t want to miss. Stop by and check us out or make an afternoon of it. Our on-site cafe serves up casual cuisine that pairs perfectly with a day of shooting.
www.triangleshootingacademy.com www.triangleshootingacademy.com

www.frontlinedefenseusa.com

Rifle Range | Frontline Defense | North Carolina

Frontline Defense Firearms Training Center and Range. North Carolina’s fastest growing outdoor shooting range.
www.frontlinedefenseusa.com www.frontlinedefenseusa.com
 
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Charlie said:
Not the same thing at all. A can, full auto, or some other obvious piece of equipment that requires people to jump through those rediculous hoops to possess is very easily detected. A firearm that was stolen is not easily detected. A person running a range could have legal or insurance problems if he neglects to have some reason to think that the obvious equipment is legal. A stolen gun would not be likely to cause problems unless the person started bragging about stealing it or unless someone recognized it as a stolen firearm.
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Nonsense. Unless they’re also checking vehicle registrations and driver’s licenses, they aren’t checking my paperwork. But I also walked past the lady at Walmart today that asked to see my receipt. 😎


And the RSO has no legal right to check it. They may have a company policy, but zero statutory right.
 
BigWaylon said:
Nonsense. Unless they’re also checking vehicle registrations and driver’s licenses, they aren’t checking my paperwork. But I also walked past the lady at Walmart today that asked to see my receipt. 😎


And the RSO has no legal right to check it. They may have a company policy, but zero statutory right.
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They may not have the legal right to check it but they do have the right, as mentioned above, to tell you to leave if you do not.
 
Charlie said:
They may not have the legal right to check it but they do have the right, as mentioned above, to tell you to leave if you do not.
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…which I’d gladly do, as I’ve done before.

They’re also assuming I’d even carry them with me. A majority of people I know…don’t.

It’s just nonsense. And most of them don’t even know what they’re looking for/at. They just want you to pull out a piece of paper of some kind. Just another CYA policy that doesn’t cover anybody’s A. It’s up to the end user to be compliant with the law.

Stamps checkers are no different than BoSers. 🤓
 
BigWaylon said:
…which I’d gladly do, as I’ve done before.

They’re also assuming I’d even carry them with me. A majority of people I know…don’t.

It’s just nonsense. And most of them don’t even know what they’re looking for/at. They just want you to pull out a piece of paper of some kind. Just another CYA policy that doesn’t cover anybody’s A. It’s up to the end user to be compliant with the law.

Stamps checkers are no different than BoSers. 🤓
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A little feisty tonight aren’t we?
 
Tailhunter said:
A little feisty tonight aren’t we?
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Nah. I’m pretty consistent on this topic. 😉

ETA: I guess I should actually say “yes”. But it’s the same level of feisty as normal when this comes up. 🤣
 
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BigWaylon said:
…which I’d gladly do, as I’ve done before.

They’re also assuming I’d even carry them with me. A majority of people I know…don’t.

It’s just nonsense. And most of them don’t even know what they’re looking for/at. They just want you to pull out a piece of paper of some kind. Just another CYA policy that doesn’t cover anybody’s A. It’s up to the end user to be compliant with the law.

Stamps checkers are no different than BoSers. 🤓
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I could not agree more.
 
When TSA first opened, they wanted to see my tax stamp, I have PDF of all of them on my phone, the young guy at the counter insisted he see the original. Told him it is inside my safe at home, he finally accepted my PDF. Shortly after that they no longer ask to see the paperwork.
 
Their range, their rules. Same way I look at my property lines. You may have all the rights and liberties that God and country has conveyed on you but once you cross that line the only rights and liberties you have are the one's I say you have. :)
 
Downeast said:
Their range, their rules. Same way I look at my property lines. You may have all the rights and liberties that God and country has conveyed on you but once you cross that line the only rights and liberties you have are the one's I say you have. :)
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That's the fudd mentality though. Private property isn't a god and we shouldn't elevate it as such. There's 0 reason to demand to see someone else's tax stamp, especially if it's because the administration is caving to the left. My rights don't end where the property line begins (sounds familiar huh?).

I went through the exact same thing when my private club decided to ban chest rigs and "battle belts". Citing fear of what other people might think. I just kept doing my thing and cooly and calmly explaining why it was a bad rule. Eventually they dropped the issues.

People on the 2A side need to stop caving to people who hate you.
 
Cole_McD said:
People on the 2A side need to stop caving to people who hate you.
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Absolutely this. They will always hate people who own guns no matter how many hoops we jump through. If we don’t fight for our rights, even the disfavored ones, they’ll keep taking. I used to live in NY and I’m directly aware that they will never stop infringing. It will only get worse if we let them normalize it. There’s a reason why the Firearms Policy Coaltion always responds to politicians wanting to limit rights with Screw you, no. It’s not just no, it’s “we’re not even going to let you get to the point where you can take the step after this one.”
 
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Cole_McD said:
That's the fudd mentality though. Private property isn't a god and we shouldn't elevate it as such. There's 0 reason to demand to see someone else's tax stamp, especially if it's because the administration is caving to the left. My rights don't end where the property line begins (sounds familiar huh?).

I went through the exact same thing when my private club decided to ban chest rigs and "battle belts". Citing fear of what other people might think. I just kept doing my thing and cooly and calmly explaining why it was a bad rule. Eventually they dropped the issues.

People on the 2A side need to stop caving to people who hate you.
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Says the man who owns nothing.
 
rbell2915 said:
Hard disagree. Regardless, this range is in the middle of nowhere with no neighbors. The only people being a PITA are the fudd RSOs. You also do not need to show LEOs your stamps either. Only the ATF or IRS as this is tax related.
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Check your local/state regs. In MI, we had to keep papers with our stuff when we went out. The law was written such that all NFA toys were illegal, unless approved by the ATF, and any LEO had the power to demand to see your papers please.
1666010358828.png
Easy to miss, but it's right there in the law.
I made 1/4 size copies, rolled them up, and stuffed them inside of grips, inside of shell holders, between the stock and the rubber pad, etc.

EDIT - keep in mind that the laws up in MI were a little different. they measured OAL in the shortest operable condition rather than with stock extended. So if you had a law folder on a 10" AR, your OAL was about 17". unless the wanted to measure it with the stock extended... the laws were terrible and people were always getting in trouble for what local jurisdictions "interpreted" the law to be (raises hand)
 
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DrScaryGuy said:
Check your local/state regs. In MI, we had to keep papers with our stuff when we went out. The law was written such that all NFA toys were illegal, unless approved by the ATF, and any LEO had the power to demand to see your papers please.
View attachment 536021
Easy to miss, but it's right there in the law.
I made 1/4 size copies, rolled them up, and stuffed them inside of grips, inside of shell holders, between the stock and the rubber pad, etc.
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NC has no such law so this is irrelevant.
 
rbell2915 said:
NC has no such law so this is irrelevant.
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Go ahead and argue what the law AKSHUALLY says when you have 3 cops around you looking to confiscate and maybe arrest you.
I already know how that works out for people like us.
If i can offset that by showing proof and they radio to their supervisor, and he tells them to back off, that's the best outcome
I've seen that happen a time or two as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping for a big payout for wrongful arrest just like the rest of you guys... but that's a big gamble if it's found lawful.
So yeah, totally irrelevant, until having that one sheet of paper becomes your get out of jail free card.
 
Tailhunter said:
Says the man who owns nothing.
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Own plenty including a house. Private property especially held by institutions or holding groups doesn't get to violate human rights.

This is why Facebook and other social media giants have so much power. Once you enter the public sphere "private property" rights become a completely different animal.

Don't be the type that cries "don't like it? Make your own!" As the powers that be mobilize to crush you.

Edit: I don't think it's a great leap to move from this example and apply it to any transactional or seni-public institution.
 
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DrScaryGuy said:
Go ahead and argue what the law AKSHUALLY says when you have 3 cops around you looking to confiscate and maybe arrest you.
I already know how that works out for people like us.
If i can offset that by showing proof and they radio to their supervisor, and he tells them to back off, that's the best outcome
I've seen that happen a time or two as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping for a big payout for wrongful arrest just like the rest of you guys... but that's a big gamble if it's found lawful.
So yeah, totally irrelevant, until having that one sheet of paper becomes your get out of jail free card.
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I have it on me in case of ATF agents, but keep bending the knee, man. You do you.
 
DPRC is pretty cool for that, by virtue of the club usually being empty enough you generally get a range to yourself. I could in theory slap a stock on one of my braced pistols and nobody be any the wiser. Not that I do that of course.

There are a lot of people who *look* like Fudds there, but in my experience they're not really Fudds. I've never had any of my shortie boys batted an eye at.

Just please don't destroy the steel targets through improper use, and staple your targets to the center of the cardboard, not to the frames. That's all I'm asking.
 
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I've never met or seen an ATF agent. Do they routinely show up at public ranges?
 
Downeast said:
I've never met or seen an ATF agent. Do they routinely show up at public ranges?
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No, they only have about 2600 special agents. You mostly need to worry about fudds and bootlickers reporting you for imaginary victimless crimes.

If everyone would practice noncompliance then the NFA would have no teeth.
 
rbell2915 said:
NC has no such law so this is irrelevant.
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You might want to read NC law again.

I’m 100% against showing to range employees.

But all NFA categories of firearms are illegal in NC and considered weapons of mass death and destruction. One of the exceptions to the law is to have them properly registered. So while at a federal level, you’re perfectly legal to refuse to show them to LEO…at the state level they’d be allowed to haul you to jail and sort it out later.
 
BigWaylon said:
You might want to read NC law again.

I’m 100% against showing to range employees.

But all NFA categories of firearms are illegal in NC and considered weapons of mass death and destruction. One of the exceptions to the law is to have them properly registered. So while at a federal level, you’re perfectly legal to refuse to show them to LEO…at the state level they’d be allowed to haul you to jail and sort it out later.
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(5) Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c)
of this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801-5871.
Nothing in this subdivision shall limit the discretion of the sheriff in
executing the paperwork required by the United States Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco and Firearms for such person to obtain the weapon.

I read that as to be as long as you are in compliance with federal law, of which I am, I am within my right now not show anything to a state LEO.
 
BigWaylon said:
You might want to read NC law again.

I’m 100% against showing to range employees.

But all NFA categories of firearms are illegal in NC and considered weapons of mass death and destruction. One of the exceptions to the law is to have them properly registered. So while at a federal level, you’re perfectly legal to refuse to show them to LEO…at the state level they’d be allowed to haul you to jail and sort it out later.
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That's one of those reasons I keep copies of my papers handy. It's bad enough having to argue with cops when you're 100% in the right. Giving them any ability to flex their authoritah over you is just a bad idea in my mind.
I actually know what a pain in the butt it is to get a gun back from the state after winning a long fight in court. I'm in no hurry to do it again if I can easily avoid it.
 
I always kept copies in the rifle cases when I was working, even though the firearms were owned by the government (but assigned to me). I figured some LEO who barely graduated HS and BLET would have a brain aneurism when I swamped him with official looking paperwork. :)
 
Downeast said:
I've never met or seen an ATF agent. Do they routinely show up at public ranges?
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i've had them show up to my house twice. it's an eye opening experience. last time was in 2014. it was best thing that happened for my marriage as the wife came to understand the meaning of authoritarianism. and if range fudds seek to support same agenda then to me there's no difference.
 
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rbell2915 said:
(5) Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c) of this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801-5871.
Nothing in this subdivision shall limit the discretion of the sheriff in executing the paperwork required by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for such person to obtain the weapon.

I read that as to be as long as you are in compliance with federal law, of which I am, I am within my right now not show anything to a state LEO.
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That’s the exception to them being illegal. How do you prove they’re in compliance without showing the stamp? Not saying LEO would even know what they’re looking at, or wouldn’t take your word for it if you included certain words in your explanation, but the “receipt” is proof they’re in compliance.

(For anybody that doesn’t know, the referenced US Code is the Internal Revenue Code which is the National Firearms Act)
 
our local outdoor range is run pretty good. The current managers and officers are all retired individuals. You rarely find someone that still works a full time job that will have the time and dedication to manage such an operation. unfortunately, you get a couple of the guys who's life long ambition has been to be in charge of something(think HOA's). Some of these guys mean well, but go overboard, mainly because "they are in charge". Every range has a couple of range nazis that will tell you everything you're doing wrong, whether you asked or not. When I joined, the guy checking credentials and memberships made a big deal about my NRA membership being expired, loudly saying "we have a problem here" while tapping his finger on my membership card, making quite a spectacle about it. I asked him if he needed to use my glasses, pointing out my membership was valid, and far from being out of date. He was looking at the date my last card was issued. I had the same guy for our safety meeting, he went on and on about calling out people sweeping with a muzzle. He was demonstrating with a blue gun, and every time he swept someone demonstrating, someone would call out "muzzle". I went along once or twice along with everyone else during the initial demonstration. He continued on with other safety instructions, blabbering on and on about something, after about the 10th time he swept me with the blue gun, I finally got up and moved to another seat. He asked why I moved, I told him if you cant take the hint after the first few times, I didn't want to be anywhere near him with any type of weapon, whether it was a "blue gun" or actual firearm. This guy is an officer on the club board, has been there for many years, runs a lot of the matches and the main reason I don't got to the range on a weekend. Its part of the deal, if I don't like it, I can find another club, if someone else runs against him as a club officer, I will vote against him. About all I can do about it.
 
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