HAM Technician.....Why do the nerds have to be in charge?

Tim said:
I'm going through a prep course (hamradioprep.com) for my Tech license test on Thursday. These test requirements were definitely made well before the popularity of cheap hand held radios. All I care about...hell, I don't actually care, is what the proper etiquette and procedures are for behaving on a 'net.

I don't give a rat's behind about Ohm's Law, resistors vs. transistors or the Ionosphere. I have zero plans to bounce waves off the space station. All I wanna do is use my $35 Baofeng to relay messages while hunting, or at a Run n Gun.
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This is why it's not called "CB radio". There's actually stuff to learn!

(It won't take long...stay with it) :)
 
Frack N Cylons said:
Then how would you track that signal down?
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SDR receiver and a doppler antenna array will guide me right to your location.

In the instance I mentioned above I used nothing more than a roof mounted 1/4 wave antenna, a laptop, and a SDRplay RSP2. I knew what area of the county my trouble maker was in (down to about 25 square miles anyway) so we hit main roads and just watched the signal strength on the spectrum scope and worked a search pattern in that area. Took me right to his front door.

Took no time at all, would have been slightly faster if I had a hand held yagi with me

If your familiar with the old school radio collars dog hunters use, the above method is very similar.
 
Hams are quite good at doing RF tracking / signal signature capture when motivated.

When I lived in NM, a local group had monthly "hidden transmitter hunts" which were really a lot of fun. We all left from the same parking lot at the same time, after the organizer recorded our odometer readings. Then we all left and the winner determined by some weighting of "fastest time to find + Fewest miles traveled" .

Some of the hidden locations were VERY creative with antennas hidden in shrubbery or small yagi antenna used to reflect the signal off a rock face a mile away in order to give a false directional reading.

The end result was, a lot of people trained in RF direction finding.
 
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Tim said:
They'd know because you wouldn't follow proper protocol....

"CQ CQ....this is NC4TAL"

Then they'd hunt you down using a direction finding antennae
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They use beam antennas, three stations in the area will triangulate the location and then mobile stations will narrow down the offending area.
 
Another reason to get your license, you can have a 50W mobile radio in the vehicle and use it as crossband repeater. (if equipped)
The mobile radio will receive your 5w handheld signal and transmits on another frequency to hit your repeater or other groups on the event.
 
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Yup ...That is an extremely quick way of finding a location with the fewest iterations yes. Even with only one or two (+ a little more time) it can be done pretty fast .

If you occasionally bootleg outside the ham bands, in all likelihood you'll never be pursued (unless you're on top of a commercial station, who WILL complain). If you bootleg on the ham bands, you're going to get some attention.

Hams are generally good people and most I know are pro 2A, but we're also fiercely protective of the allocations we've earned.

Why? Because they don't generally sound like, nor do we want them to become, the dumpster fire of Channel 19 etc.
 
Sigogglin said:
Years ago, I had a little handheld, found out when the local net was happening, and just hopped on to introduce myself. You'd think I had murdered a puppy by clubbing it with an infant and fed it to a kitten by how mad they got that I dared to get on their net and say "hey, new here, curious when your meetings are and if anyone can tell me when the next licensing test is."

At least it gave them something to talk about besides the weather for the next 4 or 5 weeks šŸ˜‚
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Listened to something like this when I was listening in on a local rag chew to see if the game was worth the entry price. Apparently anyone but the same half dozen old men wasn't very welcome.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
Listened to something like this when I was listening in on a local rag chew to see if the game was worth the entry price. Apparently anyone but the same half dozen old men wasn't very welcome.
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Keep in mind that 2M ham radio is largely populated by the same small subset of hams that only use 2M FM.

When on HF, you'll be conversing with hundreds of thousands of people in most every country in the world. I've got 15K or so contacts in my HF electronic log and I've probably been on 2M FM once in the past year. Not to say that I'm in any way a measure of normalcy! :)
 
JohnFreeman said:
Keep in mind that 2M ham radio is largely populated by the same small subset of hams that only use 2M FM.

When on HF, you'll be conversing with hundreds of thousands of people in most every country in the world. I've got 15K or so contacts in my HF electronic log and I've probably been on 2M FM once in the past year. Not to say that I'm in any way a measure of normalcy! :)
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Cool but I've decided against it at this point. I chirped the Baofengs to FRS bands and the few local emergency services I could listen in on and tossed them in a box for emergencies. I need another money sink hobby like I need a hole in my head.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
Cool but I've decided against it at this point. I chirped the Baofengs to FRS bands and the few local emergency services I could listen in on and tossed them in a box for emergencies. I need another money sink hobby like I need a hole in my head.
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stuffing g-strings is cheaper
 
Sigogglin said:
In the world we live in though, having a recourse against people that tape the ptt switch of a baofeng down and throw it into the woods just to tie up a repeater to be a dick, yeah, there needs to be some barrier to entry.
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How does the license prevent somebody from doing this?
 
GoWolfpack said:
How does the license prevent somebody from doing this?
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And why leave it somewhere static? Tape the switch and leave it under the seat of a bus or rideshare vehicle at least. Give those folks a real chase.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Me.
GoWolfpack said:
There's nothing we love quite like a spot of Gatekeeping.
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Those same old men will get mad when the FCC sells off their bands due to diminished licence holders, despite their ilk dissuading or running off countless folks who would have kept the numbers up. Pretty standard for any hobby that requires groups though, the Warhammer scene is even more toxic.
 
hp468 said:
ATV riders and hunters in the area around the Hatfield and McCoy trails have been causing all kinds of issues jamming repeaters and what not with their unlicensed communications. They likely have no idea they are doing it. Last I heard FCC was getting involved.

The biggest part of amateur radio is learning what NOT to do as much as it is learning what TO do.

Low power doesnā€™t matter. I can get into our local repeaters from the surrounding counties with a 5w handheld. I can also talk to the space station with that same hand held and a directional antenna.

In the hands of the uneducated (and even worse apathetic), those little handhelds can wreak all kinds of havoc.
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Serious question cause I honestly don't know. What is the difference between un licensed and licensed people using the airways. What's the difference when a licensed person broadcast the same message an unlicensed one does.

In simplified terms how do the airways(not other people) know whether you are licensed or not?

Apologies if I am not making myself clear.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
Those same old men will get mad when the FCC sells off their bands due to diminished licence holders, despite their ilk dissuading or running off countless folks who would have kept the numbers up. Pretty standard for any hobby that requires groups though, the Warhammer scene is even more toxic.
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Remember that old man that sent you a free new radio when you were interested and had no money?

Stereotypes are dangerous things.
 
JohnFreeman said:
Remember that old man that sent you a free new radio when you were interested and had no money?

Stereotypes are dangerous things.
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True, but after the half dozen or so (whatever the radio version of a Fudd is) tell you that your kind doesn't belong in the sacred order of radio dudes because you asked a question that was sort of obvious to someone with experience, or admitted you weren't planning on spending a ton on primo gear or explained that you just wanted to dabble a bit and have an alternate comms for backup, that's what sticks with you. I got lambasted as an unwanted type by a good few folks and I hadn't even keyed a mic yet. Since the goal of this was to talk to other folks, if that's the pool it's easy to see why folks just decide not to.

But you are right, I am stereotyping based on a portion of my experience, not the totality. But it's a bloody big portion mate. I do however apologise if I offended.
 
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Schattenreiter said:
Serious question cause I honestly don't know. What is the difference between un licensed and licensed people using the airways. What's the difference when a licensed person broadcast the same message an unlicensed one does.

In simplified terms how do the airways(not other people) know whether you are licensed or not?

Apologies if I am not making myself clear.
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I don't understand what your asking.

NCLivingBrit said:
True, but after the half dozen or so (whatever the radio version of a Fudd is) tell you that your kind doesn't belong in the sacred order of radio dudes because you asked a question that was sort of obvious to someone with experience, or admitted you weren't planning on spending a ton on primo gear or explained that you just wanted to dabble a bit and have an alternate comms for backup, that's what sticks with you. I got lambasted as an unwanted type by a good few folks and I hadn't even keyed a mic yet. Since the goal of this was to talk to other folks, if that's the pool it's easy to see why folks just decide not to.

But you are right, I am stereotyping based on a portion of my experience, not the totality. But it's a bloody big portion mate. I do however apologise if I offended.
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You went to a club meeting and were treated like that? Or you keyed up and talked on a local repeater without a license?
 
hp468 said:
Or you keyed up and talked on a local repeater without a license?
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Noooo, I like my dog. It's been a while but I joined a radio specific forum and just didn't enjoy the experience at all. I was even on my best behaviour!
 
GoWolfpack said:
I don't know why using CB radio is an insult. Could you elaborate please?
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Oh, heavens ... where can I start?

The CB band was taken away from ham operators in the later 1950s basically by force. Then, over the years, it became a haven for people who had an increasingly low regard for the actual purpose of the Citizen's Radio Service (the official name of CB) and more towards a very low-rent type of illegal pseudo-hobby activity coupled with no regard whatsoever for technical astuteness. Even worse, the televisions of the day were wholesale jammed by the illegal CBers, and the hams were blamed for it all.

I could go on. And on.

The average ham of the day viewed CB, and still views CB in many cases, with well-deserved disgust.
 
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NCLivingBrit said:
Noooo, I like my dog. It's been a while but I joined a radio specific forum and just didn't enjoy the experience at all. I was even on my best behaviour!
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Not even slightly representative of the actual radio amateur experience, and I apologize if some of the keyboard jockeys represented the hobby in that fashion.

HERE is what it REALLY is about:


The Radio Amateur is

CONSIDERATE...He/[She] never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL...He offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, the IARU Radio Society in his/[her] country, through which Amateur Radio in his/[her] country is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...He keeps his station up to date. It is well-built and efficient. His operating practice is above reproach.

FRIENDLY...He operates slowly and patiently when requested; offers friendly advice and counsel to beginners; kind assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the marks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED...Radio is a hobby, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC...His station and skills are always ready for service to country and community.
 
mostly22lately said:
Oh, heavens ... where can I start?

The CB band was taken away from ham operators in the later 1950s basically by force. Then, over the years, it became a haven for people who had an increasingly low regard for the actual purpose of the Citizen's Radio Service (the official name of CB) and more towards a very low-rent type of illegal pseudo-hobby activity coupled with no regard whatsoever for technical astuteness. Even worse, the televisions of the day were wholesale jammed by the illegal CBers, and the hams were blamed for it all.

I could go on. And on.

The average ham of the day viewed CB, and still views CB in many cases, with well-dervered disgust.
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I remember as a kid you could pick up a local illegal cb radio station on our old black and white TV.
 
hp468 said:
I don't understand what your asking.



You went to a club meeting and were treated like that? Or you keyed up and talked on a local repeater without a license?
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Ok let me try it like this. The op wants to use a radio in a match because those running it want licensed folks he seeks to get a license. Other than the obvious answer that more people using the airways jams them up, how would say 10 unlicensed people jam it up more than 10 licensed people would?

Likely the op's message that he transmits will not change much if he is licensed as opposed to unlicensed. His message is going to have something to do with the match he is working. So how is the license going to change anything other than complying to the regs.

Not trying to be a smart*** here. It is just that I simply don't know.
 
Schattenreiter said:
Serious question cause I honestly don't know. What is the difference between un licensed and licensed people using the airways. What's the difference when a licensed person broadcast the same message an unlicensed one does.

In simplified terms how do the airways(not other people) know whether you are licensed or not?

Apologies if I am not making myself clear.
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There are numerous on-line indexes of licensed hams operators across the world. And people also buy subscriptions to the database if they are not on line.

It is required that one identify one's transmissions on a very predictable basis.

It's very common (and in more than a few cases, automatically done by logging programs) (and yes, most hams keep a log of all HF contacts as it used to be a legal requirement) to immediately look up the globally-unique radio callsign of the person who is trying to contact you.

You will know instantly if you're talking to a legitimate operator.
 
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mostly22lately said:
There are numerous on-line indexes of licensed hams operators across the world. And people also buy subscriptions to the database if they are not on line.

It is required that one identify one's transmissions on a very predictable basis.

It's very common (and in more than a few cases, automatically done by logging programs) (and yes, most hams keep a log of all HF contacts as it used to be a legal requirement) to immediately look up the globally-unique radio callsign of the person who is trying to contact you.

You will know instantly if you're talking to a legitimate operator.
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Not really my question. I understand how easy it is to spot a newbie or a wannabe. The question is more to do with how having a license keeps from jamming up the airways as someone mentioned.
 
Schattenreiter said:
Not really my question. I understand how easy it is to spot a newbie or a wannabe. The question is more to do with how having a license keeps from jamming up the airways as someone mentioned.
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A licensed individual should have the knowledge needed to keep them from interfering with other systems and/or transmitting in areas of the radio spectrum where they are not authorized.

An effort to keep mess like this from happening.....

www.wired.com

The Cheap Radio Hack That Disrupted Polandā€™s Railway System

The sabotage of more than 20 trains in Poland by apparent supporters of Russia was carried out with a simple ā€œradio-stopā€ command anyone could broadcast with $30 in equipment.
www.wired.com www.wired.com
 
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Schattenreiter said:
Not really my question. I understand how easy it is to spot a newbie or a wannabe. The question is more to do with how having a license keeps from jamming up the airways as someone mentioned.
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"jamming up the airways" can mean a lot of things, so, I will presume it either means using proper transmitting etiquette so as not to be 'on' more than exactly as needed and at the right time, or, it means that a licensed person (by dint of the training they supposedly got in order to get the license) could reasonably be expected to have some technical awareness of how their radio actually operates so they'd know when something was amiss and they could be causing interference when they should not be
 
hp468 said:
A licensed individual should have the knowledge needed to keep them from interfering with other systems and/or transmitting in areas of the radio spectrum where they are not authorized.

An effort to keep mess like this from happening.....

www.wired.com

The Cheap Radio Hack That Disrupted Polandā€™s Railway System

The sabotage of more than 20 trains in Poland by apparent supporters of Russia was carried out with a simple ā€œradio-stopā€ command anyone could broadcast with $30 in equipment.
www.wired.com www.wired.com
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That is easy enuff to understand. In the case of the OP and his needs it seems like one licensed individual could instruct the others what and how to do it. Other than the obvious legal ramifications is there something else that would make this a no go in terms of jamming up the airways and has been stated?

Just trying to learn here, not trying to be difficult.
 
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