HAM Technician.....Why do the nerds have to be in charge?

[Jayne]

One of the main stated purposes of HAM is (or was) to create a group of regular people who were knowledgeable about electronics, radios and communications. Sorta like training kids to shoot so that if we needed a bunch of infantry types in a hurry we wouldn't have to start from scratch, so too if we needed a bunch of communications people in a hurry there would be some knowledge out there to draw from. Hard for the enemy to bomb every farmhouse in the country to stamp out comms.

Now wars aren't for winning and the .gov has their communications requirements squared away in ways never believed possible back when HAM was starting, so yea, it's just FUDDs making up stuff to keep the kids from getting on the air. Once the last HAM FUDD goes silent key, then the spectrum can be sold and another thing relegated to history.

edit: I should add that when studying for the tests I was shocked at actual .gov publications saying things like "you should experiment with different things and see what works". The .gov encouraging experimentation and learning instead of just strict adherence to rules made by bureaucrats? That was just crazy talk in 2002.

 

[hp468]

What is the actual harm in just using a handheld like the Baofungs and not becoming certified?

Aren’t they pretty low power? Is there real risk there? I understand it’s illegal, but does anyone actually look into such things?

I’m not advocating doing illegal stuff, genuinely curious.

ATV riders and hunters in the area around the Hatfield and McCoy trails have been causing all kinds of issues jamming repeaters and what not with their unlicensed communications. They likely have no idea they are doing it. Last I heard FCC was getting involved.

The biggest part of amateur radio is learning what NOT to do as much as it is learning what TO do.

Low power doesn’t matter. I can get into our local repeaters from the surrounding counties with a 5w handheld. I can also talk to the space station with that same hand held and a directional antenna.

In the hands of the uneducated (and even worse apathetic), those little handhelds can wreak all kinds of havoc.

 

[Car0linab0y]

Yup. Doesn't take a lot of power to do stuff.

At work for a contractor, we had a comms jammer system; 20 watts max power. It got left powered on in reactive mode; frequency agile and jammed any signal in a 20 degree arc. Luckily it was pointed out to sea; but for most of a day there was a cone of silence between ocraoke and portsmouth village.

We caught holy hell and it had to be manually powered on to be used from then on.

 

[mostly22lately]

As a citizen who tries to be responsible within society, I consider laws to be part of our civilization's lore and of rule within the present. For example, I do try to mind the speed limit, the vast majority of the time. It is unlikely I will burn down my neighbor's home even though I have a gripe with the guy. And I count on others to follow the law. All of them.

It saddens me to learn that people I solemnly trust with the responsibilities inherent in the 2nd Amendment would treat so casually violating communications laws, ignore the implications of doing so, attempt to rationalize this behavior by declaring it to be victimless, and who consider my technical knowledge and experience in amateur radio something to mock.

By the way, 'HAM' is not a word. 'Ham radio' is a phrase and it was once a pejorative, a hundred years ago, used to describe hobby-radio operators by professional railroad telegraphers who gained employment in the then-new commercial wireless industry. Hams got kicked off the radio bands they first discovered how to use, by the commercial firms that took over and all enabled by, you guessed it, the government. Hams were relegated to radio bands considered to be unfit for use and of no commercial value.

After it was later discovered ... again, by ham radio operators ... that these shortwave frequencies were in fact not useless at all but could provide global communications, the hobby garnered new respect. Air Force General Curtis LeMay (an avid ham radio operator) worked closely with Arthur Collins (probably the nation's biggest tech innovator of the day and also a ham) and together established communications networks modeled on amateur radio innovations to enable the Strategic Air Command. For decades, the US stayed a step ahead of the Soviets because we had a ready pool of communications experts in the general population.

Still today, we do have active amateur radio experimenters and innovative techniques being used and improved upon. These valuable contributions are unrelated to the cheap Chinese narrow band FM radios that just happen to operate on amateur radio frequencies. It's sad that people buy these electronically-horrible-quality devices, to be frank, and which are sold here in blatant violation of US laws, as is typical of the Chinese attitude towards this country.

If you've read this far, good. I could write more. But I won't as I think I've made my point.

 

[noway2]

As a citizen who tries to be responsible within society, I consider laws to be part of our civilization's lore and of rule within the present. For example, I do try to mind the speed limit, the vast majority of the time. It is unlikely I will burn down my neighbor's home even though I have a gripe with the guy. And I count on others to follow the law. All of them.

Remember, this is predominantly a 2A forum. Thankfully, the relationship between ham radio operators and the FCC is no where near as toxic as that between firearm owners and the ATF.

As I’ve said before, ham radio operators have great privilege and often times the proverbial benefit of the doubt, because as a whole they’ve proven to be self governing and responsible. You aren’t kidding when you say a guy with a baofeng can shut down whole systems, be it air traffic or emergency responders. The radio spectrum is an area where everyone has to play nice or nobody plays at all. Hence band plans, allocation by the FCC and frequency coordination by SERA. It literally can transcend global, not just state borders (and most nations will recognize your status as a ham and allow you to operate from their territory). . It is one of the few areas where I do recognize that a fed gov. entity has legitimacy in orcgestrating.

 

[CZfool68]

I so wish I was a bigger dork as a kid when Dad was mounting that huge ass antenna on the roof and talking to dude‘s around the world. Maybe I’d have time and patience for the BS now. But at least we shot together at the club. 👻

 

[CZfool68]

As a citizen who tries to be responsible within society, I consider laws to be part of our civilization's lore and of rule within the present. For example, I do try to mind the speed limit, the vast majority of the time. It is unlikely I will burn down my neighbor's home even though I have a gripe with the guy. And I count on others to follow the law. All of them.

It saddens me to learn that people I solemnly trust with the responsibilities inherent in the 2nd Amendment would treat so casually violating communications laws, ignore the implications of doing so, attempt to rationalize this behavior by declaring it to be victimless, and who consider my technical knowledge and experience in amateur radio something to mock.

By the way, 'HAM' is not a word. 'Ham radio' is a phrase and it was once a pejorative, a hundred years ago, used to describe hobby-radio operators by professional railroad telegraphers who gained employment in the then-new commercial wireless industry. Hams got kicked off the radio bands they first discovered how to use, by the commercial firms that took over and all enabled by, you guessed it, the government. Hams were relegated to radio bands considered to be unfit for use and of no commercial value.

After it was later discovered ... again, by ham radio operators ... that these shortwave frequencies were in fact not useless at all but could provide global communications, the hobby garnered new respect. Air Force General Curtis LeMay (an avid ham radio operator) worked closely with Arthur Collins (probably the nation's biggest tech innovator of the day and also a ham) and together established communications networks modeled on amateur radio innovations to enable the Strategic Air Command. For decades, the US stayed a step ahead of the Soviets because we had a ready pool of communications experts in the general population.

Still today, we do have active amateur radio experimenters and innovative techniques being used and improved upon. These valuable contributions are unrelated to the cheap Chinese narrow band FM radios that just happen to operate on amateur radio frequencies. It's sad that people buy these electronically-horrible-quality devices, to be frank, and which are sold here in blatant violation of US laws, as is typical of the Chinese attitude towards this country.

If you've read this far, good. I could write more. But I won't as I think I've made my point.

I have no clue what the answer is, but which of the 19 enumerated powers, if I remember correctly, given by Constitution, gives the Federal Gov’t power over radio waves? I’m not a HAM guy or radio expert so have no clue what the rational is. Can you educate me? Why is there even a license?

 

[hp468]

You aren’t kidding when you say a guy with a baofeng can shut down whole systems, be it air traffic or emergency responders.

The worst I’ve personally dealt with was one that had cross band repeat accidentally turned on, with two repeaters being “monitored.” 🙄

Took myself and a couple others a couple days to narrow down the area of the county and took the wife and I about 30 mins to locate it on a “busy” night.

The first thing the fella said was, “So THATS why that thing was so hot every time I turned it on.” 🙄😂

 

[Barbie]

I didn’t find the technician test to be bad, passing extra was the challenge.

 

[noway2]

I have no clue what the answer is, but which of the 19 enumerated powers, if I remember correctly, given by Constitution, gives the Federal Gov’t power over radio waves?

Honestly, this is probably one of the few areas where try couldn’t have envisioned. Their understanding of electricity was limited at best. The idea that you could induce a small amount of electricity, I mean a few watts - led light levels of energy - and someone could detect it on the other side of the planet would not cross their minds.

That being said, there are also certain frequencies where this “magic” happens and underertain conditions thst said colonials were not likely to recognize.

Like I said, this is one of those rare exceptions where everyone, globally, lays nice or nobody plays at all.

I put a wire up in my back yard ad hooked a handheld radio to it. I picked up a Chinese rap station from western China.

I didn’t find the technician test to be bad, passing extra was the challenge.

I studied for tech and general and passed both at 100%. On a whim, as an EE I tried the extra and almost go it, but when I studied it there were things I didn’t comprehend. I scored 49 out of 50. took the extra because I was already VE but as a general could only score techs.

 

[Barbie]

I studied for tech and general and passed both at 100%. On a whim, as an EE I tried the extra and almost go it, but when I studied tgerecweethingsthat I didn’t comprehend. I scored 49 out of 50. took the extra because I was already VE but as a general could only score techs.

I only studied for tech when we took tech. When we took general I studied some for extra but not as much as I wished I would have, missed it by 2 questions. For extra I didn’t care how I did as long as I scored higher than @hp468 and I accomplished that.

 

[hp468]

Anything over passing is wasted effort.

And it was only by 1 question.

 

[noway2]

I only studied for tech when we took tech. When we took general I studied some for extra but not as much as I wished I would have, missed it by 2 questions. For extra I didn’t care how I did as long as I scored higher than @hp468 and I accomplished that.

There are two reasons, I can think of to go extra. One, not worrying about whether your in your allocation or not. Two, to do VE testing.

I have a friend, Lacey, KN4JOX, who is an HF nut. She got the bug on field day a few years ago when I scribed and she ran the radio. OK. per “field day rules”, i shouldn’t have but her husband has a hearing disability.

I helped her set up her first antenna and that afternoon got on the radio. We found a rag chew and I broke in and then handed her the mic. It was an extra band and at the ti she was a general, but ok, I was station operator as an extra,

Shes now an extra and a VE.

I will also say, that in my experience, it is a hobby that is very welcoming of women. I was admittedly surprised by this, but on both my initial and upgrade forms, I have a female VE’s approval.

 

[Barbie]

There are two reasons, I can think of to go extra. One, not worrying about whether your in your allocation or not. Two, to do VE testing.

I have a friend, Lacey, KN4JOX, who is an HF nut. She got the bug on field day a few years ago when I scribed and she ran the radio. OK. per “field day rules”, i shouldn’t have but her husband has a hearing disability.

I helped her set up her first antenna and that afternoon got on the radio. We found a rag chew and I broke in and then handed her the mic. It was an extra band and at the ti she was a general, but ok, I was station operator as an extra,

Shes now an extra and a VE.

I will also say, that in my experience, it is a hobby that is very welcoming of women. I was admittedly surprised by this, but on both my initial and upgrade forms, I have a female VE’s approval.

I have come to learn 3 things will always cause a pile up on the radio. A special event station, a female, or a little kid in the radio.

Also one other reason to become an extra…repeater trustees.

 

[hp468]

Yep, can’t be a repeater trustee of a club with an extra class call if your not an extra.

 

[mostly22lately]

which of the 19 enumerated powers, if I remember correctly, given by Constitution, gives the Federal Gov’t power over radio waves? I’m not a HAM guy or radio expert so have no clue what the rational is. Can you educate me? Why is there even a license?

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, together with the US 'effective treaty' agreements with the International Telecommunications Union (part of the UN)

 

[noway2]

I have come to learn 3 things will always cause a pile up on the radio. A special event station, a female, or a little kid in the radio.

It was great watching Lacey turn on the not only the XYL voice, but that Wilmington coastal accent. The number of pile ups that would go through was astounding.

Year before last I did field day from my parents porch. I found I did above average in getting through pile ups. However, I was using a Hiel stand mic that tuned to the mid band (same as Lacey was using) which basically means a lot of the power was tuned to voice band. High frequency carries nuance and differentiation, low frequency is bass. The mid band is where the voice is.

edit to add, as a comedy, as I said,I scribed. She got the call sign N0FUK. I showed that to her, she turned red, covered her mouth, and said, that’s what his wife says“. We also,picked up N2BJ on a few bands.

 

[hp468]

I still regret not grabbing K4FJB when it was available a year or so ago.😂

Looks like dude only kept it for a year before dumping it for a 2x2. 😡

 

[Barbie]

It was great watching Lacey turn on the not only the XYL voice, but that Wilmington coastal accent. The number of pile ups that would go through was astounding.

Year before last I did field day from my parents porch. I found I did above average in getting through pile ups. However, I was using a Hiel stand mic that tuned to the mid band (same as Lacey was using) which basically means a lot of the power was tuned to voice band. High frequency carries nuance and differentiation, low frequency is bass. The mid band is where the voice is.

edit to add, as a comedy, as I said,I scribed. She got the call sign N0FUK. I showed that to her, she turned red, covered her mouth, and said, that’s what his wife says“. We also,picked up N2BJ on a few bands.

Our club always loved when we showed up to QSO party or field day. I got happy when we had a few more females to come along.

 

[pinkbunny]

I'm going through a prep course (hamradioprep.com) for my Tech license test on Thursday. These test requirements were definitely made well before the popularity of cheap hand held radios. All I care about...hell, I don't actually care, is what the proper etiquette and procedures are for behaving on a 'net.

I don't give a rat's behind about Ohm's Law, resistors vs. transistors or the Ionosphere. I have zero plans to bounce waves off the space station. All I wanna do is use my $35 Baofeng to relay messages while hunting, or at a Run n Gun.

Inside the $usnjrnl, there is a critical alternate data stream, $J. $J stores both the $Standard_Information and the $File_Name attribute of the file name as well as metadata information. This is especially useful if there is concern that a malicious user might have timestomped(changed the metadata MACB times) or deleted/renamed the file. In this case, close comparison of the two should be able to find these discrepancies. Here's a simple example:

 

[georgel]

Its nice to see radio-active people here. Now, if I can just see about getting the new antenna up.

Anyone doing DMR? I did for a while. Talked all over the world on a handheld. I think it's kinda getting away from the core of amateur radio, but it has its place.

 

[georgel]

Inside the $usnjrnl, there is a critical alternate data stream, $J. $J stores both the $Standard_Information and the $File_Name attribute of the file name as well as metadata information. This is especially useful if there is concern that a malicious user might have timestomped(changed the metadata MACB times) or deleted/renamed the file. In this case, close comparison of the two should be able to find these discrepancies. Here's a simple example:

View attachment 664216

Now you're just picking on him.

 

[hp468]

Anyone doing DMR? I did for a while.

Yea, we have hotspots and a few HTs. Used to participate in a few nets here and there.

To be honest, I find DMR audio to be exhausting to listen to. I don't know if its the digital compression or what, but it absolutely kills my ears.

The fact that its practically VOIP doesn't bother me much, not much different than utilizing an internet linked repeater or Echolink, etc.

 

[noway2]

Anyone doing DMR? I did for a while. Talked all over the world on a handheld. I think it's kinda getting away from the core of amateur radio, but it has its place.

Its VERY popular with our auxcomm group, while I have stayed away from it, almost as a decision because of that fact.

 

[Button Pusher]

Mayday's are broadcast on channel 16 which is the emergency marine channel. Coast guard has channel 21 and 22 set aside for them. Iirc 12 is for bridge to bridge. So if you aren't on one of those you would be fine. 6 is used to but don't remember what for. And we don't have large enough lakes in this area

Any frequency can be used to call mayday.

 

[DrScaryGuy]

It saddens me to learn that people I solemnly trust with the responsibilities inherent in the 2nd Amendment would treat so casually violating communications laws, ignore the implications of doing so, attempt to rationalize this behavior by declaring it to be victimless, and who consider my technical knowledge and experience in amateur radio something to mock.

you're making an awfully large assumption that we don't also casually violate gun laws, and mock fudds who follow them so rigidly.
I'm not saying that I would ever do such a thing, of course... but I guarantee you that we're all breaking some federal law, probably about 3 times a day.

 

[CZfool68]

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, together with the US 'effective treaty' agreements with the International Telecommunications Union (part of the UN)

F the UN. 😆

Edit - I’ll just use my fire pit and blanket for smoke signals. Limited range I know.

 

[Geezer]

Well, well, look at Brit speaking Nerd to us po's.


I have some Baofengs, but no idea how they work, need to get on yTube and start figuring that out.

I have the Baofeng and I charged it up and I know how to turn it on. I probably should learn a little, too.

 

[Button Pusher]

Many radio clubs offer no cost training, you just buy the textbook and no cost testing, unfortunately the FCC now charges a $35 fee for the 10 year license.

Search for ARRL Affiliated Clubs

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) is the national association for amateur radio, connecting hams around the U.S. with news, information and resources.

www.arrl.org

 

[Car0linab0y]

Most hand-held radios are going to max out at no more than a mile in average terrain. Get your ticket and get hooked into a repeater; with a baofeng and repeater usage I can hit most of the county.

 

[LeeMajors]

Around here. YES. There is a ham nazi between me and you ( and that ain't far) that will report faster than a cat will lick its ass

What is the actual harm in just using a handheld like the Baofungs and not becoming certified?

Aren’t they pretty low power? Is there real risk there? I understand it’s illegal, but does anyone actually look into such things?

I’m not advocating doing illegal stuff, genuinely curious.

 

[Frack N Cylons]

Again, not advocating breaking laws...just curious about the "how".

Let's say I was using one without certification, how would one know that was the case? Then how would you track that signal down?

 

[Tim]

Again, not advocating breaking laws...just curious about the "how".

Let's say I was using one without certification, how would one know that was the case? Then how would you track that signal down?

They'd know because you wouldn't follow proper protocol....

"CQ CQ....this is NC4TAL"

Then they'd hunt you down using a direction finding antennae

 

[YeeHaa]

Then they'd hunt you down using a direction finding antennae

 

[noway2]

They'd know because you wouldn't follow proper protocol....

This is usually the first and a good indication. I have seen where they will try to make up a call sign and mimic the protocols, but its easy enough to look them up. Also, a lot of the ham community in an area tend to know whose who and newbies stand out.

 

[Sigogglin]

I've got my tech, but really for two reasons...I'm heavily involved in rally racing, and we use the ham bands for course car comms, timing, control work, and all sorts of other related stuff on race day. Can't really move up in the pecking order there without being a ham. Also, the range I frequent is unmanned and deep in the woods without cell service, and it's nice to be able to hit the local repeater in an emergency. I have one radio and it's mounted in my truck.

The test is definitely antiquated, I probably couldn't pass it now, but I know how to work my radio and not be a total moron on the air.

In a world of responsible people, yeah, sure, the test/license wouldn't be required. In the world we live in though, having a recourse against people that tape the ptt switch of a baofeng down and throw it into the woods just to tie up a repeater to be a dick, yeah, there needs to be some barrier to entry.

In your shoes, I'd just use FRS radios, but like you said, the event you're going to has a ham on staff and he's decided that he wants hams for comms, so yeah, their rules.

 

[Sigogglin]

Again, not advocating breaking laws...just curious about the "how".

Let's say I was using one without certification, how would one know that was the case? Then how would you track that signal down?

Years ago, I had a little handheld, found out when the local net was happening, and just hopped on to introduce myself. You'd think I had murdered a puppy by clubbing it with an infant and fed it to a kitten by how mad they got that I dared to get on their net and say "hey, new here, curious when your meetings are and if anyone can tell me when the next licensing test is."

At least it gave them something to talk about besides the weather for the next 4 or 5 weeks 😂

 

[Tim]

In a world of responsible people, yeah, sure, the test/license wouldn't be required. In the world we live in though, having a recourse against people that tape the ptt switch of a baofeng down and throw it into the woods just to tie up a repeater to be a dick, yeah, there needs to be some barrier to entry.

just playing Devil's Advocate here...but isn't your argument the same one used by Anti-Gunners in defense of "Gun Free Zones"?

 

[Sigogglin]

just playing Devil's Advocate here...but isn't your argument the same one used by Anti-Gunners in defense of "Gun Free Zones"?

Does the first amendment guarantee access to a privately owned repeater network? I don't know. Is freedom of speech the same thing as freedom of use of communication systems?

 

[Tim]

Does the first amendment guarantee access to RADIO WAVES a privately owned repeater network? I don't know. Is freedom of speech the same thing as freedom of use of communication systems?

Of course the 1A does not give access to anything privately owned. But RF signals are physics, not products.