HAM Technician.....Why do the nerds have to be in charge?

hp468 said:
A licensed individual should have the knowledge needed to keep them from interfering with other systems and/or transmitting in areas of the radio spectrum where they are not authorized.

An effort to keep mess like this from happening.....

www.wired.com

The Cheap Radio Hack That Disrupted Poland’s Railway System

The sabotage of more than 20 trains in Poland by apparent supporters of Russia was carried out with a simple “radio-stop” command anyone could broadcast with $30 in equipment.
www.wired.com www.wired.com
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That is easy enuff to understand. In the case of the OP and his needs it seems like one licensed individual could instruct the others what and how to do it. Other than the obvious legal ramifications is there something else that would make this a no go in terms of jamming up the airways and has been stated?

Just trying to learn here, not trying to be difficult.
 
Schattenreiter said:
That is easy enuff to understand. In the case of the OP and his needs it seems like one licensed individual could instruct the others what and how to do it. Other than the obvious legal ramifications is there something else that would make this a no go in terms of jamming up the airways and has been stated?

Just trying to learn here, not trying to be difficult.
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Let's say you have six people; one with some awareness, and five others who can fog a glass and get handed a radio and told 'press here and speak.'

The six disperse to different physical areas. As they disperse, two find they can only communicate with one each of the other five, and, one of them keeps asking if anyone else can hear them. Yet another find that their radio's antenna has somehow fallen off but they try to talk anyway.

The one that keeps asking if anyone can hear is actually jamming the transmissions of two others but has no idea, and the one with the antenna that fell off burns out the transmitter because that is what happens when you do that.

The one 'licensed' person cannot be running around to the other locations to see why the communications 'system' has no chance of working as planned.

So, tell me again how this is a good idea?

Answer: get FRS radios. They do not have removable antennas, and they are always low power so they can't get far enough apart so only some can hear while others cannot. And nobody is breaking any laws.
 
mostly22lately said:
Let's say you have six people; one with some awareness, and five others who can fog a glass and get handed a radio and told 'press here and speak.'

The six disperse to different physical areas. As they disperse, two find they can only communicate with one each of the other five, and, one of them keeps asking if anyone else can hear them. Yet another find that their radio's antenna has somehow fallen off but they try to talk anyway.

The one that keeps asking if anyone can hear is actually jamming the transmissions of two others but has no idea, and the one with the antenna that fell off burns out the transmitter because that is what happens when you do that.

The one 'licensed' person cannot be running around to the other locations to see why the communications 'system' has no chance of working as planned.

So, tell me again how this is a good idea?

Answer: get FRS radios. They do not have removable antennas, and they are always low power so they can't get far enough apart so only some can hear while others cannot. And nobody is breaking any laws.
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Never said anything was a good idea. Just trying to learn. Don't know about you but asking questions is how I do it.
 
Schattenreiter said:
Not really my question. I understand how easy it is to spot a newbie or a wannabe. The question is more to do with how having a license keeps from jamming up the airways as someone mentioned.
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As a practical answer to your question, look at the state of CB, relatively low power, channelized comms, on a few bands (actually a really good DX band, but they can’t utilize it as such). Compare to ham with multiple bands, various modes, on a wide range of frequencies and much higher power (1,500 watts on HF). One of these is a free for all. The other is a group of people who self police for bad behavior.
 
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GoWolfpack said:
The actual answer is, it doesn't.
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Correct; by itself, the license just gets you a globally-unique call sign.

The license does not prevent any communications anomaly from occurring any more than getting a driver's license prevents one from having a wreck, or getting a concealed handgun permit makes you a marksman.

And there are plenty of people who drive with no license (or insurance) and who carry concealed with no permit (or training).
 
mostly22lately said:
And there are plenty of people who drive with no license (or insurance) and who carry concealed with no permit (or training).
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And 99% of the time they do so without issue and get away with it, and then there is the 1% of the time they don’t. For example. Jerk in front of us stopped on the ramp to I 40, why I don’t know, we’re sitting behind him and I said to my wife, “he’s going to cause a crash”. Seconds later car clips us from behind and they both take off. Never caught. Insurance company said it may have been an attempt at fraud, but covered my repairs, no damage to my policy.

Contrary example. Leaving UNC campus, started pulling onto HWY 54 I stopped as traffic was coming. Coco, a Chinese national, thought I was going and hit me from behind. She had insurance and they covered the repairs and rental.

It’s called being a responsible adult and doing the right thing. It’s a concept that is independent of “law” despite the best attempts of the politicians.
 
Gatekeepers are going to kill the hobby. According to the internet there's expert radio operators with single finding vehicles all over the country who will track down and report anyone mis using a radio. These same people claim the FCC has a Crack team of Top Men ready to go at a moments notice with judges on hold ready to write warrants and arrest people. Apparently it's 10 years in federal prison and $100,000 fine.

Reality is that you have to be seriously disrupting commercial or government frequencies to even get the FCC to show up.

Even if you do get reported and an FCC agent knocks on your door they aren't going to ticket you or fine you or seize your radio provided you weren't bbeing deliberately malicious. They are going to hand you some pamphlets about radio use, the relevant laws, ask you to do the right thing and then leave.
 
Cocked & Locked said:
Kinda like the Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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Pretty much. Someone in my family got a visit after they left their handheld ham radio on when they put it away after hunting. Something in the bin was pressing the button. He'd been using those radios for decades while hunting and never got in trouble, didn't even know it was illegal. He didn't stop using them either, just made sure to take the batteries out when done.
 
Prudii said:
Pretty much. Someone in my family got a visit after they left their handheld ham radio on when they put it away after hunting. Something in the bin was pressing the button. He'd been using those radios for decades while hunting and never got in trouble, didn't even know it was illegal. He didn't stop using them either, just made sure to take the batteries out when done.
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Somewhere in my dad's stuff from way back when he started in radio is a letter from another operator communicating their concern he might be operating on bands he wasn't licensed for and could he please stop. They had apparently looked him up by call sign and found his address to send the letter.


The license is a cool thing to get. It buys you entrance into a community that could potentially be really interesting but is highly variable in quality.
 
I got an official observer letter after I got licensed, it was for operating on 6 meters, 50Mhz, I did not have a radio for that band, sent it back.
 
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Tim said:
I'm going through a prep course (hamradioprep.com) for my Tech license test on Thursday. These test requirements were definitely made well before the popularity of cheap hand held radios. All I care about...hell, I don't actually care, is what the proper etiquette and procedures are for behaving on a 'net.

I don't give a rat's behind about Ohm's Law, resistors vs. transistors or the Ionosphere. I have zero plans to bounce waves off the space station. All I wanna do is use my $35 Baofeng to relay messages while hunting, or at a Run n Gun.
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Get your GMRS license then. $35 no test.
 
mostly22lately said:
The old OO corps is gone now ... vastly upgraded:
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Only had one contact with an OO. I was talking to W4AYO, as I usually did every morning and one came on loudly and claimed that Roger hadn't ID'd in 40 minutes, which was NOT true. Made him angry enough that he went out and got a 10-minute hourglass timer and kept it by his radio.
 
g19 said:
Get your GMRS license then. $35 no test.
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If you look at the transmitter specs for most GMRS radios, you will see that they configure them to be in compliance with the FRS allocations. So, while you're paying for GMRS and have a license, you're mostly getting FRS functionality.
 
But with a GMRS license, you can set up your own repeater, IIRC.
 
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I believe getting a GMRS license gets you more power and repeater capability. Somewhere around here I have a Motorola handheld that does repeater offset and tone, just like regular UHF/VHF. Looks just like a modern FRS/GMRS radio. And someone in Charlotte has/had an active GMRS repeater running.

What the OP @Tim should look at is MURS business class radios. No license, 2watt 5 channel. Just stay off channel 5, because that's the channel Walmart uses in their stores. But, if your more than a couple miles away from a store, it doesn't matter. I'll post my specific radio recommendation after I look up a link. FRS/GMRS is inundated with kids and jerks who will interfere with comms.

Technically, you can configure Baofengs for these bands, at least the old ones. I hear new ones are restricted. But, Baofengs are outside the legal specs for the band, due to power and antenna.
 
I appreciate everyone’s input, but let me reset the conversation regarding my specific use case.


- Other folks I play with are HAM licensed
- At our events, we run a tactical net manned by licensed individuals at each station.
- I want to do more to help out at these specific events, therefore I’m getting a license.
- With very few exceptions, we set these networks up on 146.xxx
- I already own a couple Baofeng radios
- my interest in radios does not extend beyond this use case
 
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Ok. Here are the radios I recommend for short range comms. They are part of an overall comms plan I have yet to post.
We've been using these daily on the farm for over a year now and I like them. Simple, easy to use and so far, durable. Just 2 dials, one for On/Off and volume, the other for channel selection. It verbally notifies you of the channel you're on, so you know if it gets bumped. It also verbally notifies you when the battery is low. They are available individually, but the pack seems to be the best buy. I would have a couple extra on standby for quick swaps.

Retevis MURS radio
 
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Tim said:
I appreciate everyone’s input, but let me reset the conversation regarding my specific use case.


- Other folks I play with are HAM licensed
- At our events, we run a tactical net manned by licensed individuals at each station.
- I want to do more to help out at these specific events, therefore I’m getting a license.
- With very few exceptions, we set these networks up on 146.xxx
- I already own a couple Baofeng radios
- my interest in radios does not extend beyond this use case
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So, you're just whining about taking a test.
 
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mostly22lately said:
Not even slightly representative of the actual radio amateur experience, and I apologize if some of the keyboard jockeys represented the hobby in that fashion.

HERE is what it REALLY is about:


The Radio Amateur is

CONSIDERATE...He/[She] never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL...He offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, the IARU Radio Society in his/[her] country, through which Amateur Radio in his/[her] country is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...He keeps his station up to date. It is well-built and efficient. His operating practice is above reproach.

FRIENDLY...He operates slowly and patiently when requested; offers friendly advice and counsel to beginners; kind assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the marks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED...Radio is a hobby, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC...His station and skills are always ready for service to country and community.
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And this right here is one of the guys I listen to when it comes to communications. And a bunch of other things come to think of it.

One of the things a fellow learns as he gets older is that he can't know it all. So, the best thing to do is have buddies who have areas of expertise. As trusted advisors, you listen and then (and here's the important part) you actually act according to their advice.

This approach has saved me a lot of time, money, and aggravation.
 
JohnFreeman said:
"we demand free stuffs. Learning skills and regulations is so old fashioned...."
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Proving the point.


If a new person showed some interest in getting involved, would that attitude be the thing that pulled them in to the hobby? After you gatekeep the hobby so tightly that nobody new ever joins and the rest of the old farts die from inhaling solder fumes, what's going to happen to amateur radio?
 
NCLivingBrit said:
I remember as a kid you could pick up a local illegal cb radio station on our old black and white TV.
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This is likely because someone hooked a cheap splat-o-matic amplifier that didn't comply with those old fashioned gate keeping type acceptance regulations, and was amplifying everything that came out of the CB from DC to light.

Most CB amps have zero output filtering, just a matching network from the PA to the nominal 50 ohm antenna jack, even today.

To be fair, TV back prior to the now-ubiquitous cable feed, was much more prone to accepting the interference .
 
JohnFreeman said:
This is likely because someone hooked a cheap splat-o-matic amplifier that didn't comply with those old fashioned gate keeping type acceptance regulations, and was amplifying everything that came out of the CB from DC to light.

Most CB amps have zero output filtering, just a matching network from the PA to the nominal 50 ohm antenna jack, even today.

To be fair, TV back prior to the now-ubiquitous cable feed, was much more prone to accepting the interference .
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Yeah we would get garbled police transmissions sometimes too. It was not a quality TV.
 
GoWolfpack said:
If a new person showed some interest in getting involved, would that attitude be the thing that pulled them in to the hobby?
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It has been my personal experience, and I have seen the same on multiple occasions with new hams that the community is quite welcoming, including of girls / women. The stipulation being that you actually have a ham license and don't act like a jerk on the air. Ham radio operators enjoy great privilege with little oversight, and this is largely due to a long-earned reputation for acting responsibly.
NCLivingBrit said:
Yeah we would get garbled police transmissions sometimes too. It was not a quality TV.
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I remember back in the 80s, a friend built a good sized Tesla coil in his basement and liked to turn it on during prime time because it would take out the neighbor's TV. I imagine even back then, intentional interference causing disruption would get you in some hot water.
 
GoWolfpack said:
Proving the point.


If a new person showed some interest in getting involved, would that attitude be the thing that pulled them in to the hobby? After you gatekeep the hobby so tightly that nobody new ever joins and the rest of the old farts die from inhaling solder fumes, what's going to happen to amateur radio?
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Not at all.

As several here can attest to, I'm more than ready to help anyone get into the hobby. If you view the requirement of exerting some effort and initiative as "gate keeping" that's fine too.

The hobby has been around for 100 yrs and people have complained since day one.

If anyone is interested in getting a license and needs help, PM me.
 
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I really had no idea there was so much contempt toward our little hobby. I get it though, the instant gratification world we live in has conditioned many to believe that they shouldn't be held to any standard or spend time working toward something as simple as obtaining a radio license. Those that do put forth the effort to achieve said things are gatekeepers and meanies for expecting others to do the same.

The fact of the matter is obtaining a license and getting into the hobby is easier now than it ever has been. Online testing, no code requirements, published question banks, clubs all over the place that offer test sessions, an internet FULL of people more than happy to help folks learn, youtube videos everywhere, $30 radios, $20 SDR receivers, the list goes on and on and on. People just mad you cant click a button and order a callsign.

Gatekeepers everywhere. :rolleyes:
 
hp468 said:
Imagine the outrage if you still had to show up to a regional FCC testing site, sit with an examiner for your test, send AND recieve cw at a set wpm, just to get on the air.
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All of which I did once upon a time. When I was 13. If I failed, I had to wait 6 months to try again as the FCC only came to Albuquerque twice a year.
 
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hp468 said:
Imagine the outrage if you still had to show up to a regional FCC testing site, sit with an examiner for your test, send AND recieve cw at a set wpm, just to get on the air.
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hp468 said:
People just mad you cant click a button and order a callsign.
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I have read (or heard) the stories of the old timers who spent many hours studying Morse code so that they could pass the test to get or upgrade their license. Then having to travel to DC or another major city, often times far away, to take said test and then wait some more to get their license in the mail. I would imagine that after going through that and putting in the effort that you would take the privilege to operate on the airwaves seriously.

As you said, today it is easier and cheaper than ever before. Memorize a few facts, such as if you live north of X degrees that you can't operate in the upper half of the 440 MHz band because of interference with Canadian operations (govt, not ham), do a little 3rd grade math that doesn't require a calculator, and God forbid understand a few basics about how a radio works.
 
Schattenreiter said:
Not at all. It's passing the test he's worried about.
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No. Not even a little bit. Don’t go putting words in my mouth. I’m not “worried” about passing anything. So far I’m averaging 94% on practice tests.

My point in the OP was a light hearted whining about having to jump through hoops and pay the king’s ransom to make use of a naturally occurring and publicly accessible resource.

Then the Elmers came along and got their panties twisted because somebody isn’t buying into the whole lifestyle. You are the old guy with blue steel and walnut .30-30 at the range looking sideways at the young guy with an AR. You’re the ass hat at the range who cornered my wife her “showed her how” she can make shots at 25yards with her j frame.
 
True story about the TV thing. Years ago, probably the 50's or early 60's my in laws lived next door to a dispatcher for the Hiway Patrol. My father in law said something to him about the interference they got from radio traffic. The guy stood him down that that couldn't happen.

One day my FIL was watching TV and the transmission form the patrol station came thru and as he finished up the guy said " can you here that at" and called out his address. FIL got up went to the phone and dialed the patrol station. When his neighbor answered he simply said "Hell yes" and hung up.
 
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