Guns at Church

The “big guy” does have me covered. My destination is set. But it doesn’t mean the ride won’t be bumpy or filled with evil along the way. He said he would be with me. He didn’t say he would cast a holy force field around me.

It is common to see atheists with a “well If God was real he would protect you” attitude. But it really just shows a flawed understanding of doctrine, scripture, and belief.


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Wahoo95 said:
Couple of things:

No matter the size of your church you need to have a Safety Ministry (Security). It's not only to protect the congregation but also to protect the church from litigation. Gross negligence is when you don't have a plan. If you have a plan you're cleared of gross negligence even if the plan isn't followed to the tee.

Your Safety Ministry needs to be organized whether it be large or small. Your policies and procedures need to be documented and on record. Your team needs to know what to do when something happens.

The biggest thing to realize is that there are SO many other issues that a Safety Ministry would be able to assist with before running into an Active Shooter.

Questions to ask your church:

What's your plan for dealing with unruly people?

What's the plan for dealing with issues revolving around divorced parents and child custody issues?

What's your plan if someone passes out, falls. Has a medical emergency inside the church or in the parking lot?

What measures do you have in place to keep the kids safe?

When was the last time your church had a fire drill and who has what responsibilities during emergencies?

Are members of your team armed and if so what training do they have? Does the church insurance cover those members?

What screening process does your church have for any and all relresentives of the church....especially those who come in contact with kids?

I could go on and on but you get the point. I chair a Safety Ministry for an 8,500 member church in a large city. I have around 100 members divided between 4 teams and another 12 guys assigned to a special team which focuses on Pastoral Security as well as VIP guest of the church. Our team works in conjuction with the Secret Service when special guest come to visit. I've been heading the ministry for the past 4yrs, however the groundwork was laid well before me. I've learned quite a few things over the years and still learning more every day. Let me know if you have any questions I may be able to shed some light on.

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Sir, you have my attention.
For those of us that do not have a team/plan in place. Could you point us to, or provide guidelines, paperwork, questionnaires for potential team members, etc. etc?
Thank you
 
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Sir, you have my attention.
For those of us that do not have a team/plan in place. Could you point us to, or provide guidelines, paperwork, questionnaires for potential team members, etc. etc?
Thank you
 
Guys if you give me a chance to find some bulk pricing on flash drives I'll send out an electronic packet of info which provides info on how to set up a Safety Ministry as well as necessary forms and such. I can get these sent out for minimal expense to cover the of the drives and postage. Unfortunately the info I have I'm unable to email. Give me a few days and I'll revisit this to put together a list of interested people.


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Wahoo95 said:
Guys if you give me a chance to find some bulk pricing on flash drives I'll send out an electronic packet of info which provides info on how to set up a Safety Ministry as well as necessary forms and such. I can get these sent out for minimal expense to cover the of the drives and postage. Unfortunately the info I have I'm unable to email. Give me a few days and I'll revisit this to put together a list of interested people.
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I'm very interested, thank you!
 
Wahoo95 said:
Guys if you give me a chance to find some bulk pricing on flash drives I'll send out an electronic packet of info which provides info on how to set up a Safety Ministry as well as necessary forms and such. I can get these sent out for minimal expense to cover the of the drives and postage. Unfortunately the info I have I'm unable to email. Give me a few days and I'll revisit this to put together a list of interested people.
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Solid move, right there.;)
 
Wahoo95 said:
Let's get together next week. Maybe you can help me get the info off my puter so be distributed in a better way
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What format is it currently in?
 
Covfefe said:
if it is a file size issue, I'm happy to share a Dropbox folder to whoever is interested. That way there's no out of pocket expense.
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That could work. I'm right down the street from Wahoo, so I'll help if I can.
 
Wahoo95 said:
How's your schedule tomorrow around 5pm?
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I should be around. Call/text me sometime tomorrow so I'll know what needs to be done.
 
concepthomes1 said:
So, I head up our Church security team. I *was* the only one who carried at the time so it wasn't a surprise when our Pastor talked to me about it.

The biggest hurdle I'm facing right now is: folks who may legally be allowed to CC a handgun but because of their odd personalities, I'd prefer they not. In the event of any sort of situation, those are not the kind of people I'd want to interfere with any sort of de-escalation attempts.

We held a half-day seminar at our facility with a Captain from the Matthews PD just to get their take and position on hostile church situations (this was before the TX shooting). This one fellow in our meeting asked the Captain, "I've always heard that dead men tell no tales so even if the bad guy is incapacitated, should we still shoot to kill?"

I about fainted after that. Quite literally, he's the ONE guy I'd NOT want to be carrying but we really don't have a recourse against him carrying unless we post the Church building.
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Like when I bought @JimB 3900 rounds of .38 Super; this dude behind me at the counter asked if I was “going to Las Vegas” with all my ammo. Some people :confused:
 
noway2 said:
I believe SC requires permission and I'm sure there are a few other states that restrict it. Doesn't make sense to me, wearing a gun should be like wearing underwear.
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Bingo.

Indiana does not disallow it, but they have a section in their laws which says that out of state permit holders are subject to the limitations imposed by their own state. So, while Indiana has no proscription against carrying in churches, SC does; therefore while I'm visiting family and friends in Indiana, I cannot carry my weapon in church unless I have permission from the church.

Which segues into this: when traveling, it behooves us to be familiar with the laws in the states through which we are passing.
 
TripleO7 said:
I was under the impression that the Big Guy had you covered. Wassup with him allowing churches to get shot up??
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Given the ability, would you protect your child from all pain, discomfort, stress, challenge and difficulty in life? Of course not, doing so would actually do a great deal of harm. As a child of God I accept that I’ve got a lot of growing up to do, and it’ll involve things that are unpleasant. You don’t give your child a little tap with the car while he or she is riding their bike to teach them a lesson about falling, similarly God doesn’t harm us, but he seems quite happy to watch as we ignore his guidance and make a mess of things. The good news is that he’ll help you sort it all again if you ask and listen.

You also need to think about life and death differently if you want to understand. Death is separation from God, so you may be alive physically but dead, and when you die physically you were saved by the grace of God and the sacrifice of Jesus and will be alive.

There are others here that are both more eloquent and better educated on the subject, but I thought that simple plain language might help you begin to get your head around it.

concepthomes1 said:
The biggest hurdle I'm facing right now is: folks who may legally be allowed to CC a handgun but because of their odd personalities, I'd prefer they not. In the event of any sort of situation, those are not the kind of people I'd want to interfere with any sort of de-escalation attempts.
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Huge issue. There are an almost unlimited number of issues that can come up, and almost all are best resolved without a weapon or violence. As churches bring teams together today they may tend to overemphasize the “attacking gunman” scenario, and as a result have procedures that are not generally effective and that attract more the wrong volunteers. If I was more talented I’d create a church ninja meme.
Almost all issues are resolved without violence

Wahoo95 said:
Guys if you give me a chance to find some bulk pricing on flash drives I'll send out an electronic packet of info which provides info on how to set up a Safety Ministry as well as necessary forms and such. I can get these sent out for minimal expense to cover the of the drives and postage. Unfortunately the info I have I'm unable to email. Give me a few days and I'll revisit this to put together a list of interested people.
Click to expand...

If the other offers don’t work out, I have a TB or more on Box, happy to set you up with a directory such that you can send a link out to anyone and they can download the info. I’d be interested in it as well. Could also just burn it to DVD’s if you want physical media.

11B CIB said:
Like when I bought @JimB 3900 rounds of .38 Super; this dude behind me at the counter asked if I was “going to Las Vegas” with all my ammo. Some people :confused:
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Some folks are just socially retarded.

B00ger said:
I checked, there was only one of the made and the catholics are hoarding it.
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Might need to use it on the Protestants one day, they can be an unruly bunch.
 
JimB said:
Might need to use it on the Protestants one day, they can be an unruly bunch.
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Jan Hus would have to show them how to use it ;)

JimB said:
If the other offers don’t work out, I have a TB or more on Box, happy to set you up with a directory such that you can send a link out to anyone and they can download the info.
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Google drive?
 
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Pink_Vapor said:
Google drive?
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I think many folks are avoiding Google because of their Orwellian data collection and utilization policies. Box doesn’t care, and in terms of use it’s very simple, just click a link and you see a directory of files, no logging in etc. Could setup users and security, but for something like this just controlling who has the link, and changing it occasionally, is probably sufficient.
 
JimB said:
I think many folks are avoiding Google because of their Orwellian data collection and utilization policies. Box doesn’t care, and in terms of use it’s very simple, just click a link and you see a directory of files, no logging in etc. Could setup users and security, but for something like this just controlling who has the link, and changing it occasionally, is probably sufficient.
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I'm guessing you mean DropBox, sounds great.
I'm only a pseudo savvy curmudgeon, I'm familiar w/GooDrive because we use it at work.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
I'm guessing you mean DropBox, sounds great.
I'm only a pseudo savvy curmudgeon, I'm familiar w/GooDrive because we use it at work.
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Actually Box rather than DropBox. Box encrypts files and has, or at least had, a better way to managed synced vs non-synced content.
 
JimB said:
I think many folks are avoiding Google because of their Orwellian data collection and utilization policies. Box doesn’t care, and in terms of use it’s very simple, just click a link and you see a directory of files, no logging in etc. Could setup users and security, but for something like this just controlling who has the link, and changing it occasionally, is probably sufficient.
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One can share a Google Drive folder via a link, without the recipient creating a Google account.
 
Jake said:
One can share a Google Drive folder via a link, without the recipient creating a Google account.
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Thanks, never knew.
 
Combat Diver said:
At the chapel here, just about everyone open carries either a Beretta 92FS or a Glock 19/17. There's a few carrying select fire ARs also. We know there are bad people out there that want to do us harm. Course the location is in Afghanistan :)


CD
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Doesn't matter CD. Evil does not recognize borders.
 
So, when I walk into church with my S&W 686 SSR or Colt Mk3 Trooper, am I to be considered a "Holy Roller"?
 
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I carry EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME, unless in the shower or in my classroom.

Who wouldn’t carry in church?


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Blk Fri sales provided the parts for an 8" 300BLK AR pistol with the folding buffer tube.
I don't know how I'll splain away a small laptop or hipster bag in church.
 
Combat Diver said:
At the chapel here, just about everyone open carries either a Beretta 92FS or a Glock 19/17. There's a few carrying select fire ARs also. We know there are bad people out there that want to do us harm. Course the location is in Afghanistan :)


CD
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Now that's a church I could feel comfortable in.
 
TripleO7 said:
and I really do respect everyones right to their beliefs....as long as you'll respect my right to think it's all BS.
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You know how somebody always shows up in every thread about football to proudly proclaim they don't watch football?

That's you.
 
I would feel very uneasy with everyone in my church carrying. I’m all in favor of a security detail at the front and back of the church but I don’t want to sit thru church thinking a nut case has carried into the sanctuary. A couple trusted and trained people would not worry me but a couple hundred would make my butt pucker. The normal outside world is crazy enough without me being on high alert in what should be the safest place in America. Besides I think it brings on unwanted risk of a accidental discharge in a crowded open room. I vote leave it to a trained crew set up inside and outside.
 
BlackGun said:
I would feel very uneasy with everyone in my church carrying. I’m all in favor of a security detail at the front and back of the church but I don’t want to sit thru church thinking a nut case has carried into the sanctuary. A couple trusted and trained people would not worry me but a couple hundred would make my butt pucker. The normal outside world is crazy enough without me being on high alert in what should be the safest place in America. Besides I think it brings on unwanted risk of a accidental discharge in a crowded open room. I vote leave it to a trained crew set up inside and outside.
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I believe in the 2nd amendment, but...
The definition of a fudd.

Self defense is the responsibility of each individual.

Church is “safe” because our eternity is secure. But Jesus was clear that His followers would be persecuted, and there is no more obvious target for that persecution than a church meeting.

You know the crazy guy won’t follow your rule/law/policy, right?
 
BlackGun said:
I would feel very uneasy with everyone in my church carrying. I’m all in favor of a security detail at the front and back of the church but I don’t want to sit thru church thinking a nut case has carried into the sanctuary. A couple trusted and trained people would not worry me but a couple hundred would make my butt pucker. The normal outside world is crazy enough without me being on high alert in what should be the safest place in America. Besides I think it brings on unwanted risk of a accidental discharge in a crowded open room. I vote leave it to a trained crew set up inside and outside.
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Let's raise this another level higher. What you're describing is the .gov taking care of you and only they will have guns.
 
BlackGun said:
I would feel very uneasy with everyone in my church carrying. I’m all in favor of a security detail at the front and back of the church but I don’t want to sit thru church thinking a nut case has carried into the sanctuary. A couple trusted and trained people would not worry me but a couple hundred would make my butt pucker. The normal outside world is crazy enough without me being on high alert in what should be the safest place in America. Besides I think it brings on unwanted risk of a accidental discharge in a crowded open room. I vote leave it to a trained crew set up inside and outside.
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So, what about every other place that people carry? Should it be only for trained crews or Shall Not Be Infringed?
 
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