dbarale
Well-Known Member
Yep, I helped a friend with a Thompson/Auto ordnance and it was a POS. I spent waaaaaay too much time fitting a safety to it as the hole was out of spec in both size and location.
1911's to avoid?
- Thread starter HawgBonz
- Start date
- Replies 152
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You have so many different companies making complete firearms and parts - tolerances don’t always play nice together -many parts need to be fitted and tuned
Sear, hammer, and disconnector, Trigger , Extractor, Ejector , Slide stop , and Safety lock are all examples of key parts that will require fitting - you might get lucky and you might end up hating 1911s.
And run from any gun that has had some bubba “polish” job on the feed ramps
when i shot alot i had 9-1911s that i shot regularly. Colts, kimbers, springers, dan wesson.
I sold them all of and miss the dan wesson the most. It was $1600 new i think and if i could buy it back, i would. Good luck in what you choose
I sold them all of and miss the dan wesson the most. It was $1600 new i think and if i could buy it back, i would. Good luck in what you choose
I've never run across anybody who could out run a "big, slow" .45.
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The real issue is that no one uses the original spec. Everyone treats the JMB design not as a blueprint but instead as a suggestion. They incorporate new manufacturing processes and techniques to make it better and to lower the production cost. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Even things like frames are different dimensions. The term milspec has been reduced to a configuration style not a design designation.
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Interesting that Ive had two Kimber, both in 45--an early (late 80s) full sized stainless that was a 70 series pistol, a 2017-ish Ultra stainless that was 80 series. Both ran like butter, never any issues with either of them. The Ultra was my daily carry for several years. I had a Ruger SR 1911 Commander the I also loved --zero issues.
Sig 1911's feel odd for me in my hand -- top heavy, so I've never bought one. Springfield Armory I've heard good things about but am waiting for reports on their new double stack 9mm.
Friends have told me stories about great buys and good experiences with recent Tisas and RIA 45s. Much more comfortable price point for me, so I may try one as a test/project pistol.
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Yep, one of my favorite 1911’s with a little design change from JMB are the S&W 1911’s. Their 1911 E-series is a fine 1911 but some are so quick to point out the external extractor thing (along with Sig 1911’s). Funny thing though many gunsmiths will say it is stronger and easier to deal with than the original internal design.
Watch the used gun cases and you will rarely see a S&W 1911 … people who get their hands on one and actually give it a chance see it usually offers quite a bit of the little extras like front strap checker, serrations to reduce glare off the top of the slide, recessed crown on the barrel … and likely a few more I missed.
Yes, a “proper” JMB 1911 is nice and having one or two is almost a given but a little “innovation” don’t hurt … hell the thread about the new double stack Springfield 9mm 1911 shows how people like sone new changes.
My issue with the external extractor is that it is not a user serviceable part. S&W and Sig won't sell you a replacement. At least that was the case when I owned a Sig and a S&W with them. Both had to go back to the factory because of the extractor. They might be available as an aftermarket part theses days. I have not owned or looked at one in over 10 years. When the run they are great when they don't it is harder to deal with.
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Your parts availability is very valid … one off parts from Sig might get tough especially when Sig discontinues a product line and leaves support kinda hanging. That said I never had to source a S&W (never seen one worn out or broken but they are not that common either) but Midwest Gun Works does carry Sig extractors … for now.
Well, mine were only in .45, so maybe that was the problem.
48 is my birth year, so forgive the error, now corrected 🤣
TO ME … early Kimbers (especially before the JPM era) were/are way more desirable. I think the slide began when Warne (yes the founder’s son and founder of Warne mounts along with Cooper) left in the early to mid 90’s to kinda get away from the guy who had bought out Kimber a few year’s earlier plus to start their own ventures.
Kimber hate abounds, due to the dreaded MIM parts. Very few internet haters ever owned one, but if you had a dollar for every supposed MIM failure that didn't ever happen, you'd be rich. I have several, from compacts to full-size. They all work just as well as my Colts, Ed Brown and Springfields. All are in .45acp. Some of the listed brands have MIM parts now, but don't dare advertise it, or they open up a can of WokeA$$. When a pistol can shoot a mix of thousands of factory 200 grain JHP "Flying Ashtrays", hand-loaded 200 grain SWC's and +P FMJ ammo accurately and without failure, I start to ignore the hate. Leaves more for me to buy.
Properly lubricated with light oil, and using Wilson mags solve a lot of problems many people attribute to the gun.
Pile on haters
Properly lubricated with light oil, and using Wilson mags solve a lot of problems many people attribute to the gun.
Pile on haters
Torn and Frayed
Well-Known Member
LAV likes this Kimber but I think they sell for more than I bought my truck
Pistol , rifle , shotgun all have the same requirements. It has to go bang every time I pull the trigger and hit the target. If not I won’t have it long.
All my kimbers were bought around 2003-2006 and they ran great. Back then i routinely saw people selling them for msrp and getting it.
Then i get out of the 1911 game and when i checked back in, everyone says their junk and aren't worth the metal their made of. I wondered what happened. Got a little history lesson today. Thanks fellas.
Then i get out of the 1911 game and when i checked back in, everyone says their junk and aren't worth the metal their made of. I wondered what happened. Got a little history lesson today. Thanks fellas.
I sold all of my kimbers off years ago. I do remember guys selling them for the price tag on the box which was usually around $1299. I believe that was around the time the custom 2's were out. (I could be wrong). I think i bought mine for $600-800 each.
Bloodyhands
Well-Known Member
Never had any functional issues with any of the Kimbers that I have ever owned. I have owned a few of the full-size 1911 Kimbers. The TLE-2 was my favorite. Kimber did always seem a touch over-priced out of the gate. I think that is where a lot of haters come from on that weapon, IMO.
The issue of surface metal corrosion is something that I did notice repeatedly with different Kimber owners in different locations, and conditions with the gun in the early 2000s.
The issue of surface metal corrosion is something that I did notice repeatedly with different Kimber owners in different locations, and conditions with the gun in the early 2000s.
Yea the eclipse models were just carbon steel with no finish on the sides. Couple guys at the gunsmithing program had em and they were rust buckets after a week. One guy had to oil his daily to keep the rust at bay.
Really I think the hate is because they market them and sell them like they are higher end production guns but when you look at them closely the quality of the parts in a $300 Tisas are better. On a Tisas GI there only 2 cast or MIM parts. There are a lot more than that in a Kimber. MIM is fine in certain applications. Generally if it is going to fail it will fail early. Lots of Kimbers experience failures early. You also hear a lot of complaints because they sell a lot of pistols. I am not sure it is still true but at one time they were the top 1911 manufacturer by volume and they sold more than the next 4 names on the list. You sell more guns there will be more reports of problems.
Again it is not that they won't run or that they are terrible it is that in the world of 1911s they are overpriced and the more you go down the rabbit hole of the platform the more you realize there are much better options above and below the Kimber price points.
Bloodyhands
Well-Known Member
Have had and currently have a few Para-Ordnance Full-size 1911s. Along with a few other types and brands of 1911.
I have always enjoyed and have had Zero issues with my Para P-14s.
When I first got into building 1911s I got Single and Double stack frames from Sarco.
It was a Nightmare and cured me of my zeal to build 1911s, but once fitted and finished those guns have been a lot of fun to shoot as well as the other Para’ I own.
Springfield, Ruger, or Dan Wesson if they make a model in your price range. Some of the Smith and Wesson a were nice, but I haven't seen one in awhile. If CZ makes the 1911's like they did for 1 year or the Dan Wessons, the new Colts will be good to go.
The cheaper imports.......stay away from them.....along with Kimber and SIG.
The cheaper imports.......stay away from them.....along with Kimber and SIG.
I am still kicking myself for not buying one of the CZ “GI” 1911s when the PX had ‘em for ~$700.
Given CZ’s rep for quality, I expect the Colts will be GTG. In fact, I’ve never cared about Colt revolvers, thinking they were pretty, but expensive & fragile & now that CZ’s in charge, I’m eyeing the King Cobra or Python for a .41 Special conversion.
Given CZ’s rep for quality, I expect the Colts will be GTG. In fact, I’ve never cared about Colt revolvers, thinking they were pretty, but expensive & fragile & now that CZ’s in charge, I’m eyeing the King Cobra or Python for a .41 Special conversion.
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Torn and Frayed
Well-Known Member
they only made the cz 1911 for 1 year. it was a good looking pistol as was the DW A2 which sadly is also discontinued.
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I got to shoot a buddy’s & it was every bit the gun my DWs were. First time he shot his, he immediately bought a 2nd to put away as a base gun for a custom.
Chuckman
Senior Member
The 1911s we used, MEU(SOC) 1911s, were a mishmash of different company's parts. They shot great. But then, we also had an armorer who took care of them. And yes, sometimes they needed fitting.
Re: Kimber, my dislike is a generation removed. They got the contract from the Marines and they were awful. The civilian version, the Desert Warrior or something, I understand was ok, but the early MARSOC units shot the crap out of them and they just couldn't keep up.
I know a member that has a couple matching Kimbers I think from their Oregon days in a special royal blue finish. I was going to buy 1 from him, but they are too pretty for me. I am more a shooter than a collector. The Oregon Kimbers are supposed to be rock solid.
No opinions on Girsan in that "less expensive" category?
Read this thread about the Tisas 1911s Pistolwrench is Chuck Rodgers. Google Chuck Rodgers and take his advice as gospel.
Bloodyhands
Well-Known Member
None here on Girsan, never owned or fondled one.No opinions on Girsan in that "less expensive" category?
Definitely like the Tisas, and Rock Island. Also, as stated above I enjoy the Para P-14 45’
My only negative comment to Rock Island would be the user experience on the Advanced Tactical website.
However, I think they are working some to improve that abomination. I finally got some more TCM-22 mags the other day from their site and it was definitely improved.
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The springfield garrison line is pretty nice. It gives you several feature upgrades without going crazy. And will probably serve you well for a long time.
Dan wessons are much better guns imo, but you'll pay hundreds more for it so you have to decide if your willing to take that plunge or not.
Dan wessons are much better guns imo, but you'll pay hundreds more for it so you have to decide if your willing to take that plunge or not.
OP
..First off I'd like to thank everyone for their input. This has been very interesting and informative..
I know I focus on some minutia but hey, this is part of the foreplay to the actual purchase and with the same results as any other foreplay. Onceinnawhile it evolves into somethin besides just "shootin yer wad". Good, bad or indifferent. 😁
..Best I can tell there's not a lot to disagree with in the @wvsig post#11.
Going thru the thread seems like there's some brands to avoid for a noob if for nothing other than the questionability of said brand names and it's effect on resale in the event of a flake out. Falls under that whole "Know thy self" thing in my AO...
I know my shooting brethren as well and we can be a fickle, stubborn lot.
Prone to many foibles and at least somewhat suspicious in fiscal transactions be it from ignorance, ego or greed. 🤣🤣
..Bout my only variance from his advice is I don't think GI versions are gonna work very well for me over bad eyes/dinky sights and I hate crappy triggers. I'd just as soon not hafta work on it from the get go ta make it tolerable. So I'm in the "upgraded" versions if I go with Tisas/RI. Which I ain't against at all cause that'd prolly be just fine and would leave money for some more steels.
While at a nice price point I'd hafta weight it against gettin into "American made" (base gun?) territory and resale factors again. I think muh lil experiment with open sights simplified things for me so not worryin' about optic cuts right now for this application.
..Springfield's entry-ish offerings seem like a decent and somewhat safe bet (Was that issue in Ill. ever resolved positively?).
..Then there's mebbe some Colts in my upper price range. Prolly a safer bet new if that's doable. I've got nothin against used but don't know enough to know if a used one's been monkeyed with by an unqualified monkey.
..Nothin I can do about anything remotely "boutique"..
..If I end up payin a lil "rent" to try somethin that doesn't pan out for some reason it ain't the end of the world.
Just don't wanna take a bath or have a jacked up experience with some Franken11.
Cost of continuing education and all. But still tryin to avoid it. 🥴
I know I focus on some minutia but hey, this is part of the foreplay to the actual purchase and with the same results as any other foreplay. Onceinnawhile it evolves into somethin besides just "shootin yer wad". Good, bad or indifferent. 😁
..Best I can tell there's not a lot to disagree with in the @wvsig post#11.
Going thru the thread seems like there's some brands to avoid for a noob if for nothing other than the questionability of said brand names and it's effect on resale in the event of a flake out. Falls under that whole "Know thy self" thing in my AO...
I know my shooting brethren as well and we can be a fickle, stubborn lot.
Prone to many foibles and at least somewhat suspicious in fiscal transactions be it from ignorance, ego or greed. 🤣🤣
..Bout my only variance from his advice is I don't think GI versions are gonna work very well for me over bad eyes/dinky sights and I hate crappy triggers. I'd just as soon not hafta work on it from the get go ta make it tolerable. So I'm in the "upgraded" versions if I go with Tisas/RI. Which I ain't against at all cause that'd prolly be just fine and would leave money for some more steels.
While at a nice price point I'd hafta weight it against gettin into "American made" (base gun?) territory and resale factors again. I think muh lil experiment with open sights simplified things for me so not worryin' about optic cuts right now for this application.
..Springfield's entry-ish offerings seem like a decent and somewhat safe bet (Was that issue in Ill. ever resolved positively?).
..Then there's mebbe some Colts in my upper price range. Prolly a safer bet new if that's doable. I've got nothin against used but don't know enough to know if a used one's been monkeyed with by an unqualified monkey.
..Nothin I can do about anything remotely "boutique"..
..If I end up payin a lil "rent" to try somethin that doesn't pan out for some reason it ain't the end of the world.
Just don't wanna take a bath or have a jacked up experience with some Franken11.
Cost of continuing education and all. But still tryin to avoid it. 🥴
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This is my main reason for recommending the Tisas Duty. Gives you better sights, trigger is about middle of the road in my opinion. Seen a lot better and seen a lot worse. And it is a reasonable price to dip your toe into the 1911 world, since this is your first and not even sure you’re gonna like the platform. So if you don’t like it, the rent will be cheap. If you find out you do like, you’ll have a solid gun while you save up money to take it to the next and in my opinion would be the Dan Wesson. Keep us updated on what you decide...If I end up payin a lil "rent" to try somethin that doesn't pan out for some reason it ain't the end of the world.
Just don't wanna take a bath or have a jacked up experience with some Franken11.
Cost of continuing education and all. But still tryin to avoid it. 🥴
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A suggestion … Salisbury and Concord should be having a couple shows coming up. Go and check out the stuff we have pointed out along with anything else you see. Fondle and get and idea of what they feel like in your hand. You can also pull the “out the door” cash price which depending on how the market is acting with the pending elections could leave the old antiquated 1911‘s moving slower if people do the election fear run on the stuff “that could be ban if …”. I will suggest if you know you’re going to definitely buy a 1911 go on and start buying a box or two or ammo here and there along with a couple quality magazines rather than wait until you have bought the 1911 and have to drop a couple hundred bucks more on ammo and mags.
I will plant a bug in your ear … Brownells has a Labor Day sale now on Wilson 47D mags 3pk for $79.99 which basically means about $90 to your door or $30 each which is a deal! You can’t have too many mags or to much ammo.
I will plant a bug in your ear … Brownells has a Labor Day sale now on Wilson 47D mags 3pk for $79.99 which basically means about $90 to your door or $30 each which is a deal! You can’t have too many mags or to much ammo.