Article: Biden gun control plan

I am not saying that the socialists wont try to pass unconstitutional laws but for now the senate will have to eliminate the filibuster first. I think two senators Manchin (WV) and Sinema (AZ) have already indicated that they are not on board with eliminating the filibuster but just like any politicians they have a price.
 
A guy told me today that there is a precedent from SCOTUS to allow the $200 tax on guns. That is a result from the Obamacare ruling calling the fees on non-participating people a tax, and legal. Thank you #^@& John Roberts.
 
12151791 said:
I am not saying that the socialists wont try to pass unconstitutional laws but for now the senate will have to eliminate the filibuster first. I think two senators Manchin (WV) and Sinema (AZ) have already indicated that they are not on board with eliminating the filibuster but just like any politicians they have a price.
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(Sorry @12151791 not replying to you directly so much as responding in general to the sentiment of the idea)
The scripted assurances from Manchin amid the scripted pearl clutching from AOC playing out on Twitter and MSM is just a show trying to assuage fears so people in Georgia feel safe electing communists to the senate in the run off. He's just playing his part for the party to win control so that they can then trash the filibuster, pack the court so they can trash the 2nd so they can trash the 1st and the 4th.
 
Clearly, a lot hinges on the outcome of the runoff in GA. If the Republicans win those seats there will be no sweeping new gun legislation, but of course under Biden's administration the ATF will run even more rampant and engage in even crazier shenanigans. You can say goodbye to AR pistol braces and hello to illegal gathering of firearm sales records, for instance. At least until congress or the SCOTUS decides to reign in the ATF, neither of which I would count on.

If the Democrats win Georgia, I still think there's a good chance that we won't see any major new legislation. It's totally possible of course, but I don't think there is enough public support for a federal ban on "assault" weapons or "large capacity" magazines or mandatory gun registration. For all their hysterical reeing about "weapons of war", I think the dems know that any massive new gun control measures will likely mean that they lose many of their congressional seats and quite possibly the presidency in 2024.
 
It things go well there will be a bunch of chatter about the gun show loopholes, more about high capacity magazines with the final move being another Brady type bill. Then there is the former Callyfornier prosecutor wishing to make herself known, trouble for sure if she gets traction.
 
6.5k total employment of the ATF vs. Millions of law abiding gun owners. Odds seem pretty good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, furthermore the ones I know wont enforce this garbage
 
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Noveske13 said:
6.5k total employment of the ATF vs. Millions of law abiding gun owners. Odds seem pretty good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, furthermore the ones I know wont enforce this garbage
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If the sitiuation goes to the point of AR’s being reclassified under the NFA to machine gun status you can bet if you are caught on the street with a unregistered AR you will certainly suffer from enforcement. Those unregistered and stored in households that know to keep their mouths shut will never see harm. The purpose of the NFA was to get the machine guns off the street. It does a very good job of doing that and presumably will serve the same purpose if applied to the AR. Time will tell if the hysteria goes that far.
 
the 1st thing they will try to pass is a repeal of the firearms manufacturers protection act so places like NY city can go back to suing the gun and ammo makers in a attemp to bankrupt and put them out of business. They will sell it to the public as "why should gun makers be exempt for being sued when they cause so much death"
 
vaskeet said:
the 1st thing they will try to pass is a repeal of the firearms manufacturers protection act so places like NY city can go back to suing the gun and ammo makers in a attemp to bankrupt and put them out of business. They will sell it to the public as "why should gun makers be exempt for being sued when they cause so much death"
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Yes. If they can't get what they want one way they will try another. That's their SOP and it always has been. The only surprise is that there are people who are surprised.

Even if they don't get the Senate they still may get the manufacturer protection act repealed and universal background checks in. Some one want to tell me what a staunch, pro 2A standup dude Romney is?
 
Noveske13 said:
6.5k total employment of the ATF vs. Millions of law abiding gun owners. Odds seem pretty good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, furthermore the ones I know wont enforce this garbage
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But which side will they be on when the list gets published?
 
gunwonk said:
Unintended consequence: if your AR is already NFA, maybe you could just check another box and go full auto? o_O
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Wouldn't that make them mad? All of a sudden every semi is converted overnight to fully... that has a chance to be hilarious
 
vaskeet said:
to be a legal full auto it would have to have been made and registered prior before 19 may 1986
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Yeah, well, if you wake up one morning and find you're suddenly a felon for having done nothing different from the day before, then I think "legal" might not mean the same thing to you that it once did.
 
Noveske13 said:
6.5k total employment of the ATF vs. Millions of law abiding gun owners. Odds seem pretty good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, furthermore the ones I know wont enforce this garbage
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The ATF will enforce as much as they can, and they will do so gleefully. The ATF is known not just for enforcing unjust laws and regulations, but for doing so enthusiastically and even vindictively and with no concern at all for what is actually fair and reasonable in a given scenario. There are many examples of peaceful citizens being absolutely savaged by the ATF for no reason other than being on the wrong side of some obscure regulation.

But the first part of your statement is spot on. We WAAAY outnumber all federal and state law enforcement officials combined by a wide margin. They can only do to us what we allow them to do to us.
 
Bull said:
The ATF will enforce as much as they can, and they will do so gleefully. The ATF is known not just for enforcing unjust laws and regulations, but for doing so enthusiastically and even vindictively and with no concern at all for what is actually fair and reasonable in a given scenario. There are many examples of peaceful citizens being absolutely savaged by the ATF for no reason other than being on the wrong side of some obscure regulation.
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Oh , but there is another reason, and it's because they are so badly outnumbered. Just like the IRS, the only way they can keep people from just ignoring them is to make examples of a few so the rest will be scared to try anything themselves.
 
OldNascar said:
If the sitiuation goes to the point of AR’s being reclassified under the NFA to machine gun status you can bet if you are caught on the street with a unregistered AR you will certainly suffer from enforcement. Those unregistered and stored in households that know to keep their mouths shut will never see harm. The purpose of the NFA was to get the machine guns off the street. It does a very good job of doing that and presumably will serve the same purpose if applied to the AR. Time will tell if the hysteria goes that far.
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I really doubt that there ever were all that many machine guns on the street in the first place. Aside of the old gangster flicks in black and white. Besides who do you think had enough money to pay the fee back then? You don't think the criminals back in the day found ways around this? The whole concept of hosing down hordes of enemies with automatic fire is mostly just movie BS.
 
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emanation
[ˌeməˈnāSHən]

NOUN
  1. an abstract but perceptible thing that issues or originates from a source.
    "she saw the insults as emanations of his own tortured personality"
    • the action or process of issuing from a source.
      "the risk of radon gas emanation"
    • a tenuous substance or form of radiation given off by something.
      "vaporous emanations surround the mill's foundations"
    • chemistry
      archaic
      a radioactive gas formed by radioactive decay of a solid.
    • (in various mystical traditions) a being or force that is a manifestation of God.
 
Stogies said:
I really doubt that there ever were all that many machine guns on the street in the first place. Aside of the old gangster flicks in black and white. Besides who do you think had enough money to pay the fee back then? You don't think the criminals back in the day found ways around this? The whole concept of hosing down hordes of enemies with automatic fire is mostly just movie BS.
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Criminals back in the day just like criminals today don’t like pulling federal time over a choice of weapons. The Act served it’s purpose well back in the 30’s and the current thinking is the reclassification will do the same today. As for what motivated Congress to approve the original bill Google Silver Shirts and their motives with a machine gun.
 
Stogies said:
I really doubt that there ever were all that many machine guns on the street in the first place. Aside of the old gangster flicks in black and white. Besides who do you think had enough money to pay the fee back then? You don't think the criminals back in the day found ways around this? The whole concept of hosing down hordes of enemies with automatic fire is mostly just movie BS.
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I read a book from the 50s about the arming of the new Jewish state of Israel. It mentioned the 'frightening' (their word) amount of fully automatic arms and explosive ordnance that the teams collected from WW2 vets just in the New York metro area in 46 and 47 to be donated to then Palestine for the protection of Jewish settlements and villages. Imagine how much was stashed across the country and is still in attics? When I worked at a gun shop in the 70s the owner received several visits from widows trying to dispose of their dead husband's full auto war relics brought back from the war. He always gave them the ATF phone number. Much later I worked at a trash company and one of the route supervisors pulled a Japanese Type 99 LMG from a dumpster outside of an apartment building. I don't know what he did with it. The stuff is still out there.
 
rufrdr said:
I read a book from the 50s about the arming of the new Jewish state of Israel. It mentioned the 'frightening' (their word) amount of fully automatic arms and explosive ordnance that the teams collected from WW2 vets just in the New York metro area in 46 and 47 to be donated to then Palestine for the protection of Jewish settlements and villages. Imagine how much was stashed across the country and is still in attics? When I worked at a gun shop in the 70s the owner received several visits from widows trying to dispose of their dead husband's full auto war relics brought back from the war. He always gave them the ATF phone number. Much later I worked at a trash company and one of the route supervisors pulled a Japanese Type 99 LMG from a dumpster outside of an apartment building. I don't know what he did with it. The stuff is still out there.
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You can bet there were more machine guns not registered than are so in this country. The trick the NFA did was make it a criminal act to be caught on the streets with an unregistered one and by registering, the government got to ‘weed’ out those they felt were undesirable, a very big number indeed.
 
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OldNascar said:
You can bet there were more machine guns not registered than are so in this country. The trick the NFA did was make it a criminal act to be caught on the streets with an unregistered one and by registering, the government got to ‘weed’ out those they felt were undesirable, a very big number indeed.
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In other words, they made it a CRIMINAL ACT to do something NOT ACTUALLY HARMING anybody.

More specifically, they made it a CRIMINAL ACT to do something NOT ACTUALLY HARMING anybody for anybody who COULDN"T AFFORD TO SPEND 15% OF THEIR GROSS ANNUAL INCOME to exercise a RIGHT.

A "malum prohibitum" law at its worst, in other words...a statue that says something is wrong ONLY because it's prohibited.

As opposed to "malum in se", which means bad, wrong, or evil in and of itself.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
In other words, they made it a CRIMINAL ACT to do something NOT ACTUALLY HARMING anybody.

More specifically, they made it a CRIMINAL ACT to do something NOT ACTUALLY HARMING anybody for anybody who COULDN"T AFFORD TO SPEND 15% OF THEIR GROSS ANNUAL INCOME to exercise a RIGHT.

A "malum prohibitum" law at its worst, in other words...a statue that says something is wrong ONLY because it's prohibited.

As opposed to "malum in se", which means bad, wrong, or evil in and of itself.
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And what?....the Act serves it’s intended purpose; the removal of machine guns from the hands of criminals. No different than the DUI laws we accept and live by daily.
 
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