ATF crack down on Ghost Guns in June 2022 and braced pistols in Aug 2022

JimB said:
I gotta think they’ll make the items more objective. I honestly believe that they posted something extra offensive so the real thing seems almost tolerable. Bottom line, they regret the statutory language, but they can’t do much about it.
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I think they included the "statutory language" for the purpose of all the lawyers getting ready for the lawsuits just ahead. Whether they are defense lawyers or Dept of Justice lawyers. The descriptions of braces, SBRs, receivers are really going to get in the weeds real soon.
 
Meckmeister said:
I think they included the "statutory language" for the purpose of all the lawyers getting ready for the lawsuits just ahead. Whether they are defense lawyers or Dept of Justice lawyers. The descriptions of braces, SBRs, receivers are really going to get in the weeds real soon.
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Have they published a revised proposal for the points worksheet, or are we still talking about the initial one.
 
Its hard to add these to the new national gun registry and then confiscate next year.
 
Lindsay “The Weasel” Graham is on the job!

I wrote to him about what the ATF is doing with pistol braces and 80% lowers and this is part of the reply he sent me:

“I wrote to Attorney General Barr in my role as Chairman of the Judiciary Committee asking him to look into this matter. I also asked that he ensure that the ATF be transparent and open with firearms accessories manufacturers and the general public who utilize those accessories. I further urged the ATF to consider the impact any firearm classification they make may have on those currently utilizing the products under consideration.”

I feel so much better that he’s written to someone who’s no longer in office.

Terry
 
specops56 said:
Lindsay “The Weasel” Graham is on the job!

I wrote to him about what the ATF is doing with pistol braces and 80% lowers
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You probably forgot to include racy pictures of Chippendale dancers or fire fighters for old Lindsay to actually write you.
 
specops56 said:
Lindsay “The Weasel” Graham is on the job!

I wrote to him about what the ATF is doing with pistol braces and 80% lowers and this is part of the reply he sent me:

“I wrote to Attorney General Barr in my role as Chairman of the Judiciary Committee asking him to look into this matter. I also asked that he ensure that the ATF be transparent and open with firearms accessories manufacturers and the general public who utilize those accessories. I further urged the ATF to consider the impact any firearm classification they make may have on those currently utilizing the products under consideration.”

I feel so much better that he’s written to someone who’s no longer in office.

Terry
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This means his intern wrote to them before last year and they haven't updated their form letters yet.

Reminds me of all the letters I've written in the past that got "I support the 2nd but" replies.
 
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Anybody seen any updates on Matt Hoover (CRS Firearms)? I'm wondering if he's still sitting in jail or if he's out on bond or if they dropped the charges yet?

Any update?
 
rdinatal said:
So whats the deal with braced pistols?

I read a lot but it's all 'wa wa wa wa' to me. Readers Digest version?
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No need to do anything. Just wait until someone else gets arrested. A court case will ensue, and it will get thrown out, just like bump stocks were.

Just don't be the first one to get caught...
 
With all the hand wringing over the ATF most forget history, in particular the 18th Amendment. Hint (Prohibition). Did everyone suddenly get sober? Did criminals meekly get out of the hootch business? My take on this stuff is if they keep going, the wall of the Post Office will make Facebook look like a small town telephone book.
 
Me. said:
I think you WAY overestimate the "will not comply" people's willingness to do more than put a sticker on their Chevy.

Most folks who shoot want to go out and shoot legally. Law-abiding citizens (by definition) obey the law.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that. The existence of speakeasys and booze smuggling went off the charts in a year.
 
I thought the regulation of interstate commerce was the justification the feds used to get their foot in the door of gun regulation. It is not interstate commerce if you make it yourself for yourself.
 
Me. said:
Nobody is making 80% lowers by themselves.

The new regs don't affect DIY guns.
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You ,sir, are ill informed; in more ways than one...

Have you not heard of 3D printers?

What about mini mills that mill a solid block of aluminum into an AR lower?

Zero Percent – Ghost Gunner

ghostgunner.net ghostgunner.net

Zero_Hero.jpg
 
Me. said:
Like I said…. nobody is making 80% lowers as a DIY thing.

If folks are building DIY, they are not stopping at “80%”. They are building full DIY receivers, which are not affected by this new proposed ruling.
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My apologies if I misunderstood your posts upstream.

I thought you were against home made firearms, and saying that it was OK for the ATF to go after them.

Would you clarify, for me, if I misunderstood?

Thanks!
 
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Me. said:
Like I said…. nobody is making 80% lowers as a DIY thing.

If folks are building DIY, they are not stopping at “80%”. They are building full DIY receivers, which are not affected by this new proposed ruling.
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I disagree with you. I think you are underestimating the American people...

What happens when you tell someone, "You can't have that!"?

There is a rush to buy it!

If the ATF chooses to fight this battle, the American people, especially those under 30, will push back and fight it.
 
No company’s business plan includes FTATF.

- Rare Breed

There is one true source of info. The published reg.

- It only holds value if you believe in it and give it value. I do not
- It'll be found unconstitutional, in court, in less than a year
 
Can they start selling 79% receivers? It seems the ATF is just going to move the mark on what they consider to be a gun. How much milling does a block of aluminum have to have before it becomes a gun? It was anything above 80%. What will it be now?

Since there is supposed to be no federal registration of non-NFA firearms, any serial number you want to put on your home made firearm should be fine and remain untraceable as long as you do not sell it through an FFL.

"Ghost guns" seem to be a new catch phrase similar to assault weapon and Saturday night special used to stir the emotions of the uneducated so that they will be eager to give away more of their rights.
 
I think the 80% goalpost was also self-invented ... I don't think ATF actually ever specified a number. It's much to their advantage to NOT set objective limits so they can play fast and loose with the interpretation as they are doing now with unfinished receivers and solvent traps.

They don't even *try* to deal in good faith.
 
Me. said:
Yeah, the “80% thing is more of a marketing thing.
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Would a 99% have been legal to market? If not, where was the line drawn? Who drew it? Did some manufacturer just assume that 80% would be legal while 81% would not. Did the feds offer any input on what constitutes a firearm?
 
Alabamacoastie said:
Anybody seen any updates on Matt Hoover (CRS Firearms)? I'm wondering if he's still sitting in jail or if he's out on bond or if they dropped the charges yet?

Any update?
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Last I heard, he was bonded out of jail and is currently working with a defense team that includes Matt Larosiere of the FPC. Meanwhile, as far as I know, the Autokeycard guy is still locked up without bail awaiting jury trial. If only he had been accused of firing indiscriminately inside a crowded mall, then he'd be bailed out for a measly $25k.
 
They can and will make and sell 80% lowers, what they can't do is sell the 80% with all the parts to make a working firearm in one kit.

The only real source of info is the proposed rules, the ATF has not published the final rules yet.
 
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shackleford said:
Last I heard, he was bonded out of jail and is currently working with a defense team that includes Matt Larosiere of the FPC. Meanwhile, as far as I know, the Autokeycard guy is still locked up without bail awaiting jury trial. If only he had been accused of firing indiscriminately inside a crowded mall, then he'd be bailed out for a measly $25k.
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Thats because firing indiscriminately in a crowded mall only affects people. "He" didn't try to fight the .gov. If you try to fight .gov, they will keep you locked up indefinitely just to prove they can.
 
Charlie said:
Would a 99% have been legal to market? If not, where was the line drawn? Who drew it? Did some manufacturer just assume that 80% would be legal while 81% would not. Did the feds offer any input on what constitutes a firearm?
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It's best not to think about this in terms of percentages, because that's misleading and gives the impression there is some kind of official, objective metric that can be assigned to an unfinished receiver. There is no such metric, either before or after the new rule. It's a completely binary classification: something is a firearm or it isn't.

Before this new rule was published, this is what ATF said about "80%" receivers, specifically AR lowers (in fact, it's still on their website as of today):
Receiver blanks that do not meet the definition of a "firearm" are not subject to regulation under the Gun Control Act (GCA). ATF has long held that items such as receiver blanks, "castings" or "machined bodies" in which the fire-control cavity area is completely solid and un-machined have not reached the "stage of manufacture" which would result in the classification of a firearm according to the GCA.
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ATF also issued a series of opinion letters in response to manufacturers who sent them samples of unfinished receivers asking whether, in the ATF's opinion, that receiver would be considered a firearm or not. Sometimes ATF would say "well, it's a little too close, but if you tweak this one thing then we'll say it's unfinished". But, it was more or less arbitrary. In the case of Polymer80, ATF's claim was that the unfinished frame in combination with the jig, tools, and other parts took it over the line, and that the jig was never supplied to them for evaluation. That's why they specifically went after the buy-build-shoot kits while the other products that only included the jig & frame (and left out the end mill bit) were still allowed to be sold.

Now this new rule comes along to clarify everything. According to the rule, it all hinges on whether the unfinished receiver can be
"readily converted" into a finished receiver. What does "readily converted" mean, you ask? That's what everyone else would like to know also. ATF gave a list of pertinent factors like time or tools required, whether a jig is supplied, indexing/dimpling on the part, etc. But in the end, they're the only ones who can decide. As a manufacturer, all you can do is send them a sample (including any jig/tools) and see what they say. Except they don't have to say anything, and they can change their mind later anyway.

Clear as mud, eh?
 
Charlie said:
Since there is supposed to be no federal registration of non-NFA firearms, any serial number you want to put on your home made firearm should be fine and remain untraceable as long as you do not sell it through an FFL.
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You are not required to serialize your DIY homebuild. The caveat to building a DIY home build is "intent" . You can build most any gun from raw materials as long as you do not intend to sale the gun or building it for someone else. If you do either of those two then you are manufacturing without the license.

The only type of gun that you are prohibited from building yourself is a full auto as manufacturing of new full auto by/for civilians was banned in the 80s.
 
shackleford said:
Now this new rule comes along to clarify everything. According to the rule, it all hinges on whether the unfinished receiver can be
"readily converted" into a finished receiver. What does "readily converted" mean, you ask? That's what everyone else would like to know also. ATF gave a list of pertinent factors like time or tools required, whether a jig is supplied, indexing/dimpling on the part, etc. But in the end, they're the only ones who can decide. As a manufacturer, all you can do is send them a sample (including any jig/tools) and see what they say. Except they don't have to say anything, and they can change their mind later anyway.

Clear as mud, eh?
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It's almost as if they don't want to present a clear set of rules that people can adhere to in order to comply with the law.
 
YeeHaa said:
Biden and his "Crime Posse" can not pass a background check.

Biden and his Marxist cohorts have gotten us into this decline in American Society because they have been ,( and still are ) engaged in destroying "The Nuclear Family."
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Sure they can, they have serialized item receipts from Bass Pro.
 
Gaston said:
Sure they can, they have serialized item receipts from Bass Pro.
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Yes Sir,

So you're continuing to troll me, at least quote me properly.

LGS receipt NC - SKS.png

https://carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/sks.112425/post-1873261

In-light of the continuing "Open Borders," and the way you continue to behave I'm sure you are right there with giving them all firearms.

Here's more customers from The Replacement Citizens group.

2022 Monthly Child Rapes by Illegal Aliens

3) March 2022 30 illegal aliens arrested for 110 child rape/child sexual assault charges in NC here

2) February 2022 27 illegal aliens arrested for 84 child rape/child sexual assault charges in NC here

1) January 2022 18 illegal aliens arrested for 96 child rape/child sexual assault charges in NC here
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Here's one,
Handyman charged with stabbing Queens lover is illegal alien
www.gopusa.com

Handyman charged with stabbing Queens lover is illegal alien

The knife-wielding handyman accused of stabbing his married lover dozens of times during a lethal late-night fight inside her Queens home was living illegally in the U.S., immigration officials said Friday. David Bonola, held in custody after a Thursday night court appearance in Queens, was...
www.gopusa.com www.gopusa.com
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Here's one that got firearms as a Freeman from a Freeman.
Who supplied them?

High Point University student came to NC to get guns​

Steber was in possession of a Star Super Modelo 9mm and a Brownson, Slucom, and Hopkins percussion shotgun.
myfox8.com

High Point University student came to NC to get guns, planned campus shooting since last December, district attorney says

HIGH POINT, N.C. — New details emerged in court after police discovered that a High Point University student had a “plan and timeline to kill people,” court documents say. Documents sta…
myfox8.com myfox8.com
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It's my prerogative to list firearms as I see fit.

It's also your prerogative to disagree.

I am not going to apologize for NOT agreeing your give them all guns mindset.
Matter of fact, you and yours interjected mass disapproval on how I listed the rifle, First.

Perhaps I should have asked for permission first, or not.

Now go back to your zoom meetings & Report to your handler. Info share NC.gif

Gaston a.png
 
YeeHaa said:
Yes Sir,

So you're continuing to troll me, at least quote me properly.

View attachment 465930

https://carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/sks.112425/post-1873261

In-light of the continuing "Open Borders," and the way you continue to behave I'm sure you are right there with giving them all firearms.

Here's more customers from The Replacement Citizens group.



Here's one,


Here's one that got firearms as a Freeman from a Freeman.
Who supplied them?


It's my prerogative to list firearms as I see fit.

It's also your prerogative to disagree.

I am not going to apologize for NOT agreeing your give them all guns mindset.
Matter of fact, you and yours interjected mass disapproval on how I listed the rifle, First.

Perhaps I should have asked for permission first, or not.

Now go back to your zoom meetings & Report to your handler. View attachment 465936

View attachment 465949
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Can you prove the High Point student didn't have a qualifying receipt for a firearm or serialized item?
 
Gaston said:
Can you prove the High Point student didn't have a qualifying receipt for a firearm or serialized item?
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Apparently you don't read either,
As the Star is a pistol and besides being 19, there is a question of him being a NC Resident.
Documents state that Paul Arnold Steber, 19, from Boston, Massachusetts

Steber was in possession of a Star Super Modelo 9mm and a Brownson, Slucom, and Hopkins percussion shotgun.

myfox8.com

High Point University student came to NC to get guns, planned campus shooting since last December, district attorney says

HIGH POINT, N.C. — New details emerged in court after police discovered that a High Point University student had a “plan and timeline to kill people,” court documents say. Documents sta…
myfox8.com myfox8.com
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So, it's clear your give them all guns Posse just wants to get cash flashed and hand over the hardware, no problem to anyone and everyone.

Keep it up, as this forum seems to be noticed for obtaining hardware "No Questions Asked."
 
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