Bad range day!
- Thread starter Millie
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OP
I always think I should be doing better, but we can't all be good at everything, so I just do what I can do, and try to learn and improve. (It sometimes does seem like I should be way farther along than I am, though! Lol.)
Thanks for the encouragement and kind words.
I'm not sure what revolver she has but sounds like it may be time for a 3" K frame (or a SP101) and some mild .38spl cast loads...... that gun will almost shoot itself.
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She has a Rossi 3 inch 357. Almost a copy of what you described. While she is here Sunday I'll put her behind a 3 inch round butt 65.
Being behind a nice round butt normally cures what's ailing me.
Just heard from Hashknife and Knotrite. More shooters coming!! Byron is setting up an all steel course for those who light to hear it Ring!! We'll be shooting the Wizard cold for the arrivals, Byron will be running shooters through his steel course and I will be working with The Millie on her firearms probs. Sunday, Sunday, Sunday, come one come all, ringing steel and gunsmoke in the air.
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I have a homemade Glock to function test and then I'll be standing guard over the dessert.
If the nanner puddin has whipped cream on it, forget guard and just throw it in the trash
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• ( 2 ) Pepper Poppers
• ( 2 ) Mini Poppers
• ( 2 ) 10" Steel Challenge Gongs
• ( 1 ) 12" Steel Challenge Gong
• ( 6 ) 8" IPSC Plates
• ( 3 ) 6" IPSC Plates
Bring extra magazines... You'll need em..!
Fair Warning!!!!! We might have to confiscate the 3 6" plates for a custom Wizard target I'm having made!!!
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Any jalapeno poppers?
Graywolf
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Millie, once again I'm late to the party. I'm so proud of your grit and determination in shooting. A lot of great advise from these guys! When you said you had your thumb over the safety I said, " Noooo!". Thumbs should be lined up pointed to the target below the safety. Raise your right thumb to put the safety on, raise it up and over the top of the safety to engage it. Lock those arms out so the slide can function as it should. I won't ask your age but I am 63 and carry a .1911 in a commander slide, officer frame. You shoot what makes YOU comfortable. I shoot about 7 mags of 7 rounds, sometimes less, but always leave on a good note. Shooting with my better half, we are usually finished in a couple of hours. I practice at anywhere from 3 to 25 yards. Today I decided to shoot one handed only. Last week I did another drill. That way I am not over tired, or get in a rut. Grip, stance, front sight, press the trigger, and follow through. Make every shot count and don't be hard on yourself for a bad day at the range. We all have had them.
Limp wristing can't cause a complete failure to extract, leaving the case in the chamber. Nor can the magazine...nor a weak or strong recoil spring.
The things that can bring a failure to extract are:
Worn or broken extractor. Unlikely, but possible.
Weak extractor spring. Far more likely.
Rough or badly fouled chamber. Get it clean and inspect with a good light.
Damaged chamber. Unlikely, but very possible. The 9mm is a fairly high pressure cartridge, and sometimes commercially loaded ammunition is over pressured. Mistakes happen. Check your fired brass to see if any of it is barrel shaped or for any signs of even slight bulging. Bad ammunition can bulge a chamber, and once that happens, the rounds that are fired are swaged into the bulge and fairly lock the case in the chamber.
This happened to me once with a friend's Browning High Power. Nearly drove me over the edge trying to figure out why it was failing to extract pretty regularly. I replaced the extractor and spring. Cleaned the chamber until it sparkled. Nothing worked...and then, in sheer frustration, I picked up a piece of fired brass and saw the almost imperceptible bulge around the entire circumference of the case at about the mid-point. A caliper confirmed it.
I asked about his ammunition, and he described his handloads. Being one of those fools who strove to make the 9mm the equal of a .357 Magnum...over time...he'd bulged the chamber. He ignored the occasional failure to extract and kept going. The problem got worse, and he looked me up.
So, check your brass. If all is well, your best bet is to replace the extractor and spring. Chances are high that will cure it.
The things that can bring a failure to extract are:
Worn or broken extractor. Unlikely, but possible.
Weak extractor spring. Far more likely.
Rough or badly fouled chamber. Get it clean and inspect with a good light.
Damaged chamber. Unlikely, but very possible. The 9mm is a fairly high pressure cartridge, and sometimes commercially loaded ammunition is over pressured. Mistakes happen. Check your fired brass to see if any of it is barrel shaped or for any signs of even slight bulging. Bad ammunition can bulge a chamber, and once that happens, the rounds that are fired are swaged into the bulge and fairly lock the case in the chamber.
This happened to me once with a friend's Browning High Power. Nearly drove me over the edge trying to figure out why it was failing to extract pretty regularly. I replaced the extractor and spring. Cleaned the chamber until it sparkled. Nothing worked...and then, in sheer frustration, I picked up a piece of fired brass and saw the almost imperceptible bulge around the entire circumference of the case at about the mid-point. A caliper confirmed it.
I asked about his ammunition, and he described his handloads. Being one of those fools who strove to make the 9mm the equal of a .357 Magnum...over time...he'd bulged the chamber. He ignored the occasional failure to extract and kept going. The problem got worse, and he looked me up.
So, check your brass. If all is well, your best bet is to replace the extractor and spring. Chances are high that will cure it.
IIRC the P238 does not have a extractor spring but has a 1911 like extractor which can be tensioned. Depending on the round count it might be out of spec or just need a good cleaning.
@Millie have you ever removed the firing pin stop plate, firing pin & spring? Doing so IIRC also allows you to remove the extractor. It might be worth having @BatteryOaksBilly help you remove it on Sundy and clean the channel and retension it if necessary.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1512470
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Any chance of moving Battery Oaks a couple hrs north. I'm not expecting you too move all the way up here.
Battery Oaks, it's worth the trip, even if you never fire a single round. I always walk away a little smarter after visiting Battery Oaks.
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OP
When I don't keep my right thumb over the top of the safety, I can put the safety on, and not be able to fire the gun....as I found out during my very first match last weekend, so the thumb has to go on top of it in order to be sure I can fire it.Millie, once again I'm late to the party. I'm so proud of your grit and determination in shooting. A lot of great advise from these guys! When you said you had your thumb over the safety I said, " Noooo!". Thumbs should be lined up pointed to the target below the safety. Raise your right thumb to put the safety on, raise it up and over the top of the safety to engage it. Lock those arms out so the slide can function as it should. I won't ask your age but I am 63 and carry a .1911 in a commander slide, officer frame. You shoot what makes YOU comfortable. I shoot about 7 mags of 7 rounds, sometimes less, but always leave on a good note. Shooting with my better half, we are usually finished in a couple of hours. I practice at anywhere from 3 to 25 yards. Today I decided to shoot one handed only. Last week I did another drill. That way I am not over tired, or get in a rut. Grip, stance, front sight, press the trigger, and follow through. Make every shot count and don't be hard on yourself for a bad day at the range. We all have had them.
I just turned 63, and I was carrying the 1911 9mm 5" barrel till it started having problems. Love that gun.
I did find out that the extractor on the p238 is broken. I'm happy to know what the problem is! The 9mm has yet to be sorted out, but might be the extractor as well.
Combat Diver
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Millie is it broken or just need adjusting? I have a 1911 adjustment tool that I will stick in y range bag for Sunday. Even if it is broken, it still might need an adjustment.
OP
You are right on, at least about the extractor in the Sig. I found this out today and made a thread about it.
Now I'm still not sure the same is going on with the 1911, but since it's behaving the same way, maybe it is. If Billy can't sort it out, I'll send it to RIA.
I'm sad that my Sig is broken, but happy to have learned yet more about my gun, and especially to know what the problem has been!
Thanks for your advice, and I'll be checking out the extractor on the 1911 soon, I hope. I'll keep you posted.
(I want my gun back, not a replacement, as this was my first 1911, and I'm crazy about it and love to shoot it. Lol. I got attached to it from the first rounds I fired!)
OP
Well, I don't know about the one on the 1911. The Sig one is definitely broken! I'm not familiar enough with the 1911 to know where to look really, and will be shooting a borrowed gun on Saturday at the match.
I'll be happy to have you look at the 1911 on Sunday. The problem seems to be getting worse, so maybe something is getting ready to let go.
OP
The Sig is broken, no doubt, so that one is solved for now, I'm happy to say! The pic you showed me looks a lot like what I saw today come out of the Sig. With about 1/4" missing!IIRC the P238 does not have a extractor spring but has a 1911 like extractor which can be tensioned. Depending on the round count it might be out of spec or just need a good cleaning.
@Millie have you ever removed the firing pin stop plate, firing pin & spring? Doing so IIRC also allows you to remove the extractor. It might be worth having @BatteryOaksBilly help you remove it on Sundy and clean the channel and retension it if necessary.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1512470
As for the 9mm, I'll have to let the experts at B. O. have a look. I'm hoping it's just a broken part and not issues with the human shooting the gun. We shall see, soon enough.
Thanks for taking the time to help, that goes for all you guys!
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OP
Well, it happened during those tests you gave me to do, so thank you! Lol. I was pushing yet another case out of the gun when I spotted a part I had never seen before! It turned out to be the extractor....and voila! Problem solved. (Gun broken, but still....solved!)
Extractor problems on Sigtalk
https://sigtalk.com/p238-p938-pistol/254986-new-p238-extraction-problems.html?amp=1
https://sigtalk.com/p238-p938-pistol/254986-new-p238-extraction-problems.html?amp=1
Millie made the right decision not to carry the Sig until she could find out why it was not working.
If a firearm is not operating as it should, take it out if service.
If a firearm is not operating as it should, take it out if service.
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I've never seen a P238, so I wasn't aware and assumed that Sig had just followed the crowd.
It's a step in the right direction, but if they're breaking every few hundred rounds, they haven't gotten it sorted out yet. The extractor isn't a highly stressed, high wear part.
Browning's specs for the extractor was "1090 steel with austenite grain size 7 or smaller, hardened and drawn to a spring temper." I've pulled extractors from completely worn out 1918 Black Army Colts and installed them in other pistols and they lasted for tens of thousands of rounds.
The question is: Why are they breaking?
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I have seen a few folks here that dropped rounds into the chamber and made the Extractor do the "reach around. " As with dropping the slide on an empty chamber this is a NoNo here. I explain and show them once what both things do. If they continue in the same manner later, they are on their own forever more.
OP
Yes, and that's the second gun I've had to stop carrying in the last couple months! Not a good time for me and carry guns.....
Lucky for me, Billy lent me a .45 a few months ago, and so now I carry that, since Tuesday! It's a lot heavier than the 9mm, for sure!!
Also could be that the last round is jumping the magazine and being push fed into the chamber...and the extractor is climbing the rim.
The telltale sign is a smear near the edge of the rim and a small burr kicked up. Millie, take note and check your fired brass.
Maybe...but modern steels are pretty tough. Possible that the heat treatment has made a few too brittle to handle the occasional push feed. If Sig didn't actually make the extractors, maybe they keep records of lot numbers that they can use to trace it to bad quality.
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Squared away in the Battery Oaks bunkhouse thanks to Billy and Ronnie Sue. Strong breeze wafting through the windows. Great for sleepin'..
Steel has been unloaded into a pile on the range. Will start setting it all up early in the morning. For those who wish to run the plates with something other than a handgun, We have a Remington Versamax shotgun, and a super, sweet 9mm AR-9...
Steel has been unloaded into a pile on the range. Will start setting it all up early in the morning. For those who wish to run the plates with something other than a handgun, We have a Remington Versamax shotgun, and a super, sweet 9mm AR-9...
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That's the honest truth right there. I've been there before and never fired a round, and had a great time. It's awesome just hanging out with the guys and RS. You can learn a lot by just "listening" in that place. Love it.
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The 16pc. Battery Oaks "Forrest of Steel" is set up and operational. The course will challenge the shooter to focus on the front sight, and work the trigger properly without disturbing the sights. It is very easy to speed up, and MISS the plate completely.
Billy ran the course first thing this morning and shot it one for one with a gun he had never shot before! RS gets her turn this evening.
Billy ran the course first thing this morning and shot it one for one with a gun he had never shot before! RS gets her turn this evening.