Church shooting in TX will disappear from news

I am sorry to say that we had an in-depth discussion about this very situation at church this morning.

I have been trying to get some traction from members for some increased security measures to be im place but that's a hard nut to crack in a small rural methodist church! I at least feel better knowing that 3 or 4 of us carry EVERY day, EVERY where. I'll keep banging away.
 
Before we get into the fact that this will get a fraction of the coverage of the Synagogue stabbing, or the politics of it all, or the inevitable push to disarm the ones who stopped it, I'd like to say that was a very difficult video to watch. I know some of you have seen much worse on the battlefield or while on patrol. But seeing that in High Definition with all the audio, and the one woman running to what must have been her husband murdered, brought this home in a way I don't think I've ever experienced before.
 
After reading about what happened and watching, I think I'm seeing this:
  1. Average age of this congregation must be north of 50.
  2. Guy with shotgun was the bad guy.
  3. Guy next to BG, who took the second round, must have been passing out the elements of the communion, and not part of the security team. This would explain why he didn't engage BG even though he was standing right next to him. (Fox News story: a witness to the shooting told KTVT the gunman walked up to a server with a shotgun during communion and opened fire before someone else inside the church took him down.)
  4. First guy to get shot looks like a parishioner who was minding his own business in the pew until he saw the shotgun. Then he slowly rose up and exposed himself completely, slowly attempted to draw, and got shot.
  5. BG then turns to the shocked communion server and shoots him.
  6. Security team appears to be two guys at the back. Both are drawing before the first shot is fired. One engages the shooter while standing, the other takes cover but keeps eyes on shooter.
  7. After it's over, I see at least two other men with pistols drawn headed up the aisle. It seems that they are sweeping half the congregation.
  8. These two men and at least two of the security team are walking towards BG, and everybody's pistols are pointed at everybody else's.
  9. Nobody seems much interested in running away.
Probably a lot of lessons in this short video.
 
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Very rough to watch.

It was good to see a quick reaction and a large number of firearms come into play quickly that dropped this guy.

As many of you know, I am a minister myself. I generally always carry. Even in the pulpit. I pray to never, every have to use my firearm. Violence for me is an absolute last resort. But it is an option that I strongly embrace.

I had a nightmare a few days ago. I was in the car, one of my daughters was across the street in what I assume was a playground. Across the street from us a man was acting very erratic and some other adults were approaching him. The man began to turn violent. I remember opening my door and standing up to yell for my daughter to come to me. I drew my pistol and just then the crazy guy started randomly shooting. Not really at anyone, just shooting. I remember another man exchange fire with him, but that was fuzzy. In my dream I recall thinking “can I shoot him now?” So I aimed, fired, and saw him flinch. He turned towards me, and started rushing me then dove behind a tree stump...my daughter was running towards me as I aimed again and fired. I remember the sights, I remember feeling the trigger...and I remember seeing my bullet hit the ground next to him. As I was squeezing the next round I remember the crazy man (kinda large dude, bald head and mustache) aimed at me and said “now I’m gonna kill you.” And as I hit the breaking point of my trigger I woke up. Horrified.

Did I make it? More importantly did my daughter? Did I hit him and it did nothing? Was I about to die?

So it freaked me out a good bit. It’s a dream that even a few days later I remember vividly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If the gun used by the shooter is a Shockwave type “firearm” ... not a pistol grip 18plus” barreled shotgun or illegal sawed off one ... there goes the stuff for the next ATF attack like the Franklin Armory Reformation.
 
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Bunsen said:
Here is the video of the shooting from the church's service live feed. Shooter used a pistol grip shotgun and eliminated the church's security team member closest to him before another church member dropped him.

https://streamable.com/m8sly
Click to expand...
I watched it 5 min. ago, then went back and it is down now.
 
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Got another link to the video?

The one posted above is gone now.

Found this...

image002-1.jpg
 
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While this was happening, I was in our church feeling like something was going to happen any minute. I was so agitated, I walked outside and checked the parking lot and all the entrances. Didn't get over that feeling until after the service.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
Is the video available elsewhere? That one has been removed.
I’m taking this info to our safety team.
I need some training and more practice.
Click to expand...

Same reason why I want a copy, have some close friends that lead church security teams. Their members need to see how this played out.
 
MacEntyre said:
While this was happening, I was in our church feeling like something was going to happen any minute. I was so agitated, I walked outside and checked the parking lot and all the entrances. Didn't get over that feeling until after the service.
Click to expand...

I do it all the time!

Hard to keep focused when acting sheep doggedly!
 
Read somewhere guy who shot bad guy was a retired FBI agent. Not sure if true.


Smooth, fast draw under pressure and what seems to be a headshot on a moving target at a respectable distance.
Very impressed by his response. Definitely some real training involved.
 
NKD said:
Read somewhere guy who shot bad guy was a retired FBI agent. Not sure if true.


Smooth, fast draw under pressure and what seems to be a headshot on a moving target at a respectable distance.
Very impressed by his response. Definitely some real training involved.
Click to expand...

Couldn't be possible! Everybody knows that cops are lousy shots. ;)
 
NKD said:
Read somewhere guy who shot bad guy was a retired FBI agent. Not sure if true.


Smooth, fast draw under pressure and what seems to be a headshot on a moving target at a respectable distance.
Very impressed by his response. Definitely some real training involved.
Click to expand...
the first victim was very slow on the draw. not sure if he was trying to surprise the guy or just slow, but he bought time and drew the first. still a hero.
second victim i can't say anything about.
the guy that shot the attacker seemed to wait until people were out of the way and then VERY smoothly drew and hit a moving head from maybe 20 yards. no doubt he saved some people
 
Very hard to watch. He didn’t seem to belong there. 1st guy to draw was very slow and feel horrible for him and his family. I need to practice drawing from concealment more I think. I was surprised that there was not a rush of people to the exits.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
Is the video available elsewhere? That one has been removed.
I’m taking this info to our safety team.
I need some training and more practice.
Click to expand...
I need this to show to our team as well please.
Thanks
 
Good guy's shot came at the same pace as the bad guy's shots... probably as fast as possible for an aimed shot.

Why does no one ever think of tackling a bad guy?
 
MacEntyre said:
Why does no one ever think of tackling a bad guy?
Click to expand...
I think that's what happened at UNC-Charlotte. Student Riley Howell lunged for the POS as soon as he started shooting. Mr. Howell for it with his life but saved many others.

Remember the Orlando gay night club, where the killer took like, 20 minutes to kill everyone, and at one point went to the bathroom and washed his hands before he came out and resumed shooting? Called 911 to tell them what he was doing? What if 3-4 people had rushed him? Some would have died, but probably not all of them, and it would likely have saved lives.
 
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I was just thinking, why do they (psycho murderers) mostly pick places that are usually teeming with guns, like Texas. I'm very surprised this doesnt happen every week or every day in New Jersey, California, or DC where no one, or barely anyone, carries because of the laws.
 
BU2scwMJL said:
I was just thinking, why do they (psycho murderers) mostly pick places that are usually teeming with guns, like Texas. I'm very surprised this doesnt happen every week or every day in New Jersey, California, or DC where no one, or barely anyone, carries because of the laws.
Click to expand...
it does happen there, but it's expected there and it's usually poor people, so nobody cares.
The thing is that in many states, churches are no-carry zones. you can't have a gun there unless you go through the trouble of getting a carry license AND getting the permission of the presiding official (good luck with some churches). I would bet that if you could scrape this guy's brain up and read it, he was NOT expecting 2 armed people within a few yards, with more running up behind.
 
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