Church shooting in TX will disappear from news

Ask @fieldgrade about his attempts at the Wizard Drill with his pocket carry Glock with nylon holster. Even starting with hand on the gun in pocket, things happen.

Now that I’m fattened up for winter my pockets are also too tight. Just switched from pocket carrying the G43 to carrying it on my belt in a leather pancake, and will switch over to the G48 in a leather pancake once I get this holster a little more broken in, and the new trigger in it in a week or so.

And I’ll probably cease shooting 1911’s in IDPA and start shooting Glocks, since that’s the platform I carry, even though they bore the snot out of me. ;)
 
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Now that I’m fattened up for winter my pockets are also too tight. Just switched from pocket carrying the G43 to carrying it on my belt in a leather pancake, and will switch over to the G48 in a leather pancake once I get this holster a little more broken in, and the new trigger in it in a week or so.

And I’ll probably cease shooting 1911’s in IDPA and start shooting Glocks, since that’s the platform I carry, even though they bore the snot out of me. ;)

That is sooo backwards. You need to start carrying the 1911.
 
I'm 72 and attended church every time the doors opened until I left my first wife around 28. Later my new wife thought our kids needed some religion and we tried a few churches several years ago. They're all grown now. Whatever loss or sense of inadequacy they ever felt didn't last. I often miss the community and support that a church family provides, but the rigid doctrinaire demands, and range of acceptable beliefs were unattractive, to say the least. We were Church of Christ, a rather strict, conceited sect I eventually learned. "Only ones going to heaven" kind of attitude, evangelical, missionaries in Africa, etc. The Prince of Peace was always the message, though. Deacons passed the plate, not the ammunition. My mom was bad about taking in strays, messed up foster kids in our little house, and every kind of good work. That world no longer exists. People are not generally good anymore, and the law/culture is morally degraded beyond redemption, in my lifetime at least. I understand that a lot of churches today are faced with a lower class of human being. Drugs, abuse of every kind, economic misery, drunkeness and crime, a sense of entitlement. I don't judge people like Pastor Booger who carry guns in church and try to help these folks. I am skeptical of any success with such lost souls. It is appalling what can and did happen here, just down the road from my perfect little world that is no more. I may have failed to express those concerns and criticisms in a helpful manner. For that, I apologize.

Tell ya what....

In the interest of keeping this thread on topic, if you'd like to wander over to "Off Topic" and jump in "The Chapel" sub, I'd love to discuss some of the points in what you posted above.
 
That is sooo backwards. You need to start carrying the 1911.
I’ve been in the house (or on the porch) since 3PM and am not leaving again till tomorrow. I have a 9mm, 10+1 on my belt and an extra mag in my pocket. And another 9mm on my desk here.
I am not undergunned.
 
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And I’ll probably cease shooting 1911’s in IDPA and start shooting Glocks, since that’s the platform I carry, even though they bore the snot out of me. ;)

I'm sending a note to Hackathorn recommending you be charged as a Communist. <snicker>
 
There were only about 3 seconds from the first two shotgun shots until the kill shot, and the cadence was about a shot per second, so from draw to longish head shot under, say, 4 seconds - that's pretty good performance.

And I just watched the Hackathorn video @Amp Mangum posted. He talked about a 5 second window in which everyone is sort of in shock. You can see this in the reaction of even Jack Wilson as he flinched at the first shotgun shot although he already had his hand on his gun in the holster. He certainly reacted within that 5 second window and it wouldn't be fair to second guess the situational awareness of the parishioners who were armed in that congregation.
 
It is good the shooter did not have good threat prioritization. When the shooter pulled out his shotgun, two men reacted by starting to draw their guns. The shooter shot the closest armed responder, but instead of turning to the next armed responder (Wilson), he turned in the other direction and shot the unarmed deacon. That gave Wilson time to draw, aim, and fire.
 
And I just watched the Hackathorn video @Amp Mangum posted. He talked about a 5 second window in which everyone is sort of in shock. You can see this in the reaction of even Jack Wilson as he flinched at the first shotgun shot although he already had his hand on his gun in the holster. He certainly reacted within that 5 second window and it wouldn't be fair to second guess the situational awareness of the parishioners who were armed in that congregation.
Jack Wilson already stated he paused because he didn't have a clear shot and had to wait a second.

CD
 
Jack Wilson already stated he paused because he didn't have a clear shot and had to wait a second.

CD

The video evidence we have from our angles doesn't show that. If you review from the 10 second mark to the 18 second mark, Jack took the shot almost immediately after he drew his weapon. And there actually was a woman in gray and black near his line of fire as he took the shot - you can see her climbing over pews to escape after Jack's shot. I realize angles can affect our viewing, but it's not off that much.

I used to shoot a lot of shotgun, over 3,000 registered sporting clays rounds per year with at least an equal amount of practice. There were a few times I shot a pair while forgetting to put my molded ear plugs in. The sound is loud and startling to say the least, and I shot guns with 30"-32" barrels so the sound was well away from me and "muzzled" opposed to the sound blast out of an 18" barrel. The first blast from a 12 gauge hot load like buckshot inside a relatively small space like that sanctuary would be startling. You can see it in Jack Wilson's flinch at the first blast. For Jack to react like any human would to the first and second shots, and draw and fire that shot he made is quite remarkable, in my opinion.

Upstream someone commented that it might have gone badly for a first responder to shoot the man just because he had a shotgun, as in before he shot someone. Now I personally don't believe any jury in Texas would have convicted the shooter for killing the man after he brandished the shotgun. You don't pull a shotgun from under your coat in church to show an usher its new fancy pistol grip or the smoothness of the action. Here is a quote about "no duty to retreat" part of Texas law from the US Law Shield site:

Texas Penal Code §9.32(c) states that in defending yourself or another person, you have no duty to retreat if: (1) you have a legal right to be at the location where deadly force is used, (2) you did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used, (3) and you were not engaged in criminal activity at the time deadly force was used.
 
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The video evidence we have from our angles doesn't show that. If you review from the 10 second mark to the 18 second mark, Jack took the shot almost immediately after he drew his weapon. And there actually was a woman in gray and black near his line of fire as he took the shot - you can see her climbing over pews to escape after Jack's shot. I realize angles can affect our viewing, but it's not off that much.


I suspect his brain had “slowed time down” and we can’t see that in the video.
 
That world no longer exists. People are not generally good anymore, and the law/culture is morally degraded beyond redemption, in my lifetime at least. I understand that a lot of churches today are faced with a lower class of human being. Drugs, abuse of every kind, economic misery, drunkeness and crime, a sense of entitlement. I don't judge people like Pastor Booger who carry guns in church and try to help these folks. I am skeptical of any success with such lost souls. It is appalling what can and did happen here, just down the road from my perfect little world that is no more. I may have failed to express those concerns and criticisms in a helpful manner. For that, I apologize.
I'm only 40, and I already remember a very different world. Statistically, we're safer now... but society glorifies bad actions in a disturbing way that seems new (for us anyway).
I am not a religious person, but it seems a lot of people LOVE to quote Jesus saying "turn the other cheek" and "put your sword back in its place" without drawing the necessary distinctions between insult and lethal threat, God's will for Jesus and the free will we all deal with daily. And of course nobody likes to remember that before the whole cutting off an ear thing, Jesus had JUST told his followers to be armed.
The speech at the last supper suggests that the followers were kept safe up until then BECAUSE they were helping Jesus get to where He needed to be, but that protection was about to expire and they needed to look after themselves.

I suspect his brain had “slowed time down” and we can’t see that in the video.
I was attacked by a big dog once, a rottweiler. I was trying to get into my car and i heard a bark and dog claws on pavement behind me and knew I was in a bad spot. I dropped what was in my gun hand, spun around while drawing faster than I would have thought possible just in time to see the dog making his first jump from about 4 feet away. it had me pinned against my car. And that's when I came to understand tunnel vision and time distortion. I had a gun in my hand fast, but couldn't decide if i wanted to shoot because i could vaguely understand that the owner was running up from a way back at 2 o'cock (turns out totally out of the line of fire, but i couldn't really be clear on that because of the tunnel vision and slow motion thing) and I heard my mom running up from somewhere. I knew she had to be off at 3-4 o'clock at that time, but i couldn't see her and I had a feeling she was going to try to jump on the dog any second. So there I was, clear shot, not fully understanding my window of clear shot was rapidly slipping away while I tried to figure out what to do (which turned out to be kick the dog in the throat every time it jumped up at me, and my gun/hand made a very attractive target for the dog anyway).
Speaking of tunnel vision, my mom didn't even notice the gun in my hand or the string of harsh profanities I was spewing at the dog's owner once she got control of his chain. :) She wouldn't have been happy with either one of those things.
 
In the event that the head shot missed he was at least in position for a follow-up to the torso.

I would think a man that skilled would be able to transition there prior to the BG racking a 3rd shotgun round and acquiring again!

Watch the video again, no "racking" it was a semi auto....
 
AS more and more details come out, this was totally preventable. It was another dirtbag, with multiple arrests, who should not have been out on the streets to do this to people. Multiple assaults, Child endangerment, Arson, weapons charges, etc. Yet the criminal justice system keeps plea bargaining things away, suspending sentences, letting folks out with a little wrist slap, repeatedly, until they finally kill someone, then we wonder what went wrong. That last gun charge he had should have put him away until 2026. the criminals today do not fear the justice system. The whole plea bargaining, time off for good behavior, suspending sentences needs to be eliminated.
 
No, no, no!!! lol.
Well, I don’t carry one, and when I do run them in matches I can somehow manage to make them bend, break, malfunction, or simply stop running altogether through some curse that I have. Be they Wilson, Wesson, Colt, Springfield, Fusion, RIA. Doesn’t matter.
 
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AS more and more details come out, this was totally preventable. It was another dirtbag, with multiple arrests, who should not have been out on the streets to do this to people. Multiple assaults, Child endangerment, Arson, weapons charges, etc. Yet the criminal justice system keeps plea bargaining things away, suspending sentences, letting folks out with a little wrist slap, repeatedly, until they finally kill someone, then we wonder what went wrong. That last gun charge he had should have put him away until 2026. the criminals today do not fear the justice system. The whole plea bargaining, time off for good behavior, suspending sentences needs to be eliminated.

But the prisons are full and people are clamoring about the corporate penal system we have. Can’t have it both ways. Either we lock up people that break laws or we don’t. Either way some group is whining about something.
 
Well, I don’t carry one, and when I do run them in matches I can somehow manage to make them bend, break, malfunction, or simply stop running altogether through some curse that I have. Be they Wilson, Wesson, Colt, Springfield, Fusion, RIA. Doesn’t matter.

Well you still haven’t tried an Ed Brown or a Nighthawk. Have at it. You aren’t getting any younger.
 
But the prisons are full and people are clamoring about the corporate penal system we have. Can’t have it both ways. Either we lock up people that break laws or we don’t. Either way some group is whining about something.

We also need to use the death penalty more liberally to free up space in the prisons.

There are people on this planet that have no business being here.
 
We also need to use the death penalty more liberally to free up space in the prisons.

There are people on this planet that have no business being here.

After we march on DC & hang a few hundred politicians we can clean out the prisons of more worthless criminals.
 
AS more and more details come out, this was totally preventable. It was another dirtbag, with multiple arrests, who should not have been out on the streets to do this to people. Multiple assaults, Child endangerment, Arson, weapons charges, etc. Yet the criminal justice system keeps plea bargaining things away, suspending sentences, letting folks out with a little wrist slap, repeatedly, until they finally kill someone, then we wonder what went wrong. That last gun charge he had should have put him away until 2026. the criminals today do not fear the justice system. The whole plea bargaining, time off for good behavior, suspending sentences needs to be eliminated.
Remember back in the early 90’s when the Feds passed the Habitual Felon Law ... aka 3 Strikes for higher felonies? And even funnier some states had something similar prior to the Fed law ... Texas in the early 50’s ... NC put it in the books in the late 60’s. The liberals sure have neutered it ...
 
Remember back in the early 90’s when the Feds passed the Habitual Felon Law ... aka 3 Strikes for higher felonies? And even funnier some states had something similar prior to the Fed law ... Texas in the early 50’s ... NC put it in the books in the late 60’s. The liberals sure have neutered it ...
Several years back Iredell co DA's made a list of the 50 or 100, I can't remember the number, offenders with the most run ins with the law and made a big deal about how they would receive no plea bargains, extra heavy bonds and be prosecuted to the max.

That rhetoric didn't last beyond the first arrest off the list.
 
I have to admit, I find it a little amusing that it wasn't some young modern high speed, low drag dude that got it bad guy, but one of us old farts. ;)
 
I have to admit, I find it a little amusing that it wasn't some young modern high speed, low drag dude that got it bad guy, but one of us old farts. ;)

I'm guessing that particular old fart was once a young, high speed, low drag modo.
 
A grand jury in Texas decided Monday to take no action against a volunteer security guard who shot a gunman dead inside his Fort Worth-area church last December.

Jack Wilson, head of the volunteer security team at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, killed a man who first opened fire among a more than 260-person congregation on Dec. 29, 2019.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-grand-jury-church-security-guard-kills-shooter
I would hope that that would be their conclusion. Hell, it didn't even need to go to a Grand Jury.
 
While this was happening, I was in our church feeling like something was going to happen any minute. I was so agitated, I walked outside and checked the parking lot and all the entrances. Didn't get over that feeling until after the service.
DON'T IGNORE THAT KIND OF FEELING!!!!!!!! You did exactly right.
 
He’ll probably still have a civil case to deal with.
 
A grand jury in Texas decided Monday to take no action against a volunteer security guard who shot a gunman dead inside his Fort Worth-area church last December.

Jack Wilson, head of the volunteer security team at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, killed a man who first opened fire among a more than 260-person congregation on Dec. 29, 2019.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-grand-jury-church-security-guard-kills-shooter
1st of all, good.
Why the hell was this even taken to a court? Shouldn’t the Sheriff or DA looked at the evidence/footage and pinned a medal on Kack?
 
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