No; you could forget to carry your CCP and still not violate the law in most cases.
NC Constitutional Carry moves forward
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No; you could forget to carry your CCP and still not violate the law in most cases.
BigWaylon
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I can think of one benefit, although fairly small.
You want to go for a walk, or run a quick errand, or whatever else...and either don't want to take your wallet (assuming that's where your permit stays) or forgot it. Or you leave a pistol in your car and somebody else drives it (or you've borrowed somebody else's car that has one in it). No problem for carrying without the permit with you.
I can't find any benefit. All the restrictions are in place. You still need a permit for reciprocity. You still need a permit to purchase. Educational property is still a no go.
All it really does is do away with the 8 hour class that cost $100 if your content with only carrying in the state.
The only thing that I can see if potential benefit is that someone who is 18 would be able to carry concealed.
This bill is a bunch of nothing but a symbolic push forward and for that reason I continue to push on it.
From a point of view that you have a CCH you are correct.
From a non CCH person it's less steps
If your carry concealed, this bill would require you to carry your ID. So, there really is no benefit for those currently holding a CHP - assuming that you likely carry it in the same place you carry your ID.
For me as an OCer, it doesn't mean too much. The second revision of the bill took away carry in establishments that serve alcohol - you still need a CHP for that. It also requires a CHP to have a pistol in your car, concealed, while on educational property. And to keep a pistol in your parked car on campus, or at a courthouse, the state capitol, and all those other special places, you need a CHP to do so legally.
The second revision also makes it illegal to carry in a law enforcement facility. While not a biggie, its a deterioration of rights - and something that I have done but would no longer be able to do.
The bill that came out of the judiciary committee is watered down. The only thing it may help with is if it passes, I don't have to worry whether I'm concealing at the barber when they put the big apron over me.
It MAY stop the many Sheriff's offices from dragging their feet processing applications since you won't really need the permit for the main purpose, and class price may come down.
I really liked it when AK passed theirs, as I didn't have a permit at the time, but they didn't require PPPs, and theirs was if it was legal with a permit, it was legal without. Still considered getting one though as I am perpetually delayed by NICS.
Since I have a permit here I will probably maintain it, PPPs are stupid, and helps for travel.
I really liked it when AK passed theirs, as I didn't have a permit at the time, but they didn't require PPPs, and theirs was if it was legal with a permit, it was legal without. Still considered getting one though as I am perpetually delayed by NICS.
Since I have a permit here I will probably maintain it, PPPs are stupid, and helps for travel.
drypowder
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Guys, keep in mind that gun rights were not lost in one fell swoop - they were lost incrementally. And incrementally is the only way in which they can be restored.
The left would love nothing more than for the pro-2A crowd to not push for this bill because it doesn't have everything we want.
Getting this bill passed into law is just another step in the journey we've been taking in NC over the last several years. And as we keep hitting that PPP barrier, we will eventually knock it down, but obviously it's not going to happen while a Dem is governor (and thus requiring a veto-proof majority of a legislative body that has too many Dems and RINOs), so let's take the small win that is possible, rather than pout and stop the forward progress we've been making in recent years.
Please be geared up to make phone calls and send emails as this bill makes it way to the House floor. Let's git'er done!
The left would love nothing more than for the pro-2A crowd to not push for this bill because it doesn't have everything we want.
Getting this bill passed into law is just another step in the journey we've been taking in NC over the last several years. And as we keep hitting that PPP barrier, we will eventually knock it down, but obviously it's not going to happen while a Dem is governor (and thus requiring a veto-proof majority of a legislative body that has too many Dems and RINOs), so let's take the small win that is possible, rather than pout and stop the forward progress we've been making in recent years.
Please be geared up to make phone calls and send emails as this bill makes it way to the House floor. Let's git'er done!
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Basically yes! It basically allows the folks that open carry to toss a jacket over it and conceal it.
Yup, a big whoop de do. @drypowder is correct though. We didn't get to the point we're at overnight and it will take multiple challenges to get it back to where it should be, but still this is A LOT of effort for little gain - that isn't even constitutional carry thanks to it bring watered down.
Yeah, $5 for them to run an NCIS check. I live in Guilford County which has two major metropolitan areas. Don't tell me that Barnes knows the people and can evaluate their character. Hell, I've met him multiple times and he still doesn't know me from Adam.
To me IF it passes with no issues or changes and Cooper vetoes it, and it is over ridden would be the fact that even thou we have a Democrat Governor that the R's are at least trying to take the steps to roll back some gun control. For, if the shoe was on the other foot, the democrats, would be initiating more gun control.
To me any chance Cooper gets thumbed the nose I am happy.
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That part was taken out basically because of the NCSO association being against the bill.
drypowder
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Indeed.
The liberals running the show for the left (as opposed to the idiot millenial SJW's) understand that this is a marathon, not a sprint.
We have passed pro-gun bills in NC in 2011, 2013, and 2015, all over the shrieking howls and doomsday prophecies of the left. Let's ram this through in 2017 and the failure of yet another doomsday prophecy (i.e., concealed carrying without a permit will lead to the streets flowing red with blood) will put us in a stronger position for the next time we take on the PPP.
Ran a search for the word opposed in that document. The only other times they opposed anything other than bills to repeal the pistol purchase permit was to oppose private process servers in summary ejectment cases. They did not even oppose or say anything negative about the antigun HB273 bill, the so called gun safety act. Just shows that the Sheriffs association is only concerned with money and not with the upholding the Constitution.
BigWaylon
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There is a little snippet in there to clarify carrying concealed is permitted in a church that also has a school on the grounds. (Unless posted 
)
And was the "during school hours" (which includes curricular & extracurricular activities) always there? Or is that also new?
)And was the "during school hours" (which includes curricular & extracurricular activities) always there? Or is that also new?
BigWaylon
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It's not the money. It's the power/control. Last study I saw (several years ago) said it cost them >$50 to process each $5 permit.
If that is the case lets get our representatives to remove the power. They are not opposed to constitutional carry because the current permit system is shall issue and they have no discretion. If you meet the requirements , boom, you get your permit. If you remove their discretion from the purchase permit system, simple economics should come into play. Make it that if they deny someone a permit and that person has to go to court to override the sheriff, the sheriff should pay his legal fees if he is successful.
I remember there was something in the current law about appeal to a district court but do not remember the details.
Not that the courts would over rule the Sheriff but I guess it could happen.
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BigWaylon
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They actually did that for NFA CLEO signatures two years ago...
Then 41F happened last year and nobody needs a signature anyway.
Just looked up the PPP portion of the North Carolina General Statues (NCGS Ch. 14 Article 52A). Couple of comments below
1) NCGS § 14-403 states that "the sheriffs of any and all counties of this State shall issue to any person, firm, or corporation in any county a permit to purchase or receive any weapon mentioned in this Article..." So the contrary to my statement in a previous comment, it appears that the PPP is shall issue. But there is a disqualifying list for which a person can be denied. Haven't compared this to the requirements for a CHP so don't know of any significant differences.
2) There is a right to appeal a refusal to the superior court but it does not contain any requirements to pay for legal fees if the PPP refusal is overturned. This would be a good option to try to get the legislature to add into law.
3) The sheriffs are required to keep a list of all permit denials and the reasons for the denials. That list is considered a public record and the sheriff has to make the list available upon request to the public. It would be interesting to get a copy of these lists from all 100 counties and see the percentage of denials and the tabulate the reasons and see if these reasons would have been captured on a NICS check that would have been performed at an FFL.
1) NCGS § 14-403 states that "the sheriffs of any and all counties of this State shall issue to any person, firm, or corporation in any county a permit to purchase or receive any weapon mentioned in this Article..." So the contrary to my statement in a previous comment, it appears that the PPP is shall issue. But there is a disqualifying list for which a person can be denied. Haven't compared this to the requirements for a CHP so don't know of any significant differences.
2) There is a right to appeal a refusal to the superior court but it does not contain any requirements to pay for legal fees if the PPP refusal is overturned. This would be a good option to try to get the legislature to add into law.
3) The sheriffs are required to keep a list of all permit denials and the reasons for the denials. That list is considered a public record and the sheriff has to make the list available upon request to the public. It would be interesting to get a copy of these lists from all 100 counties and see the percentage of denials and the tabulate the reasons and see if these reasons would have been captured on a NICS check that would have been performed at an FFL.
"The bill includes a provision to slightly raise the fee required to pay county sheriffs to handle the application process for concealed weapons permits. That financial element was necessary to keep the bill alive after it missed the deadline to cross over from the House to the Senate.
Legislative staff said the application fees add up to about $4 million a year on average, but a more detailed analysis still has to be done."
Back the Blue, and all that. "They're progun and would never take our guns" my ass.
Legislative staff said the application fees add up to about $4 million a year on average, but a more detailed analysis still has to be done."
Back the Blue, and all that. "They're progun and would never take our guns" my ass.
Let's think about the many people it will benefit, not just us privileged permit holders. Too many people don't protect themselves because of fee's and regulations. This permitless concealed carry is a step in the right direction.
drypowder
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+1
I'm all for this, even though I'm good for another 5 years after renewing my CHP this year.
Or eliminated the fee.
It's our God given Right to keep AND bear arms for our defense. Government has no moral.or just power to seize those Rights and sell them back to us for a profit. It is no different than a poll tax to vote.
I agree it's a great step in the right direction and one that has to be made is baby steps not huge bounding leaps. It beats the erosion of our rights hands down!
Honestly the best
It seems Sheriffs and their friends in Raleigh want to keep some form revenue generation and power of who is able to buy a handgun. Of course we know criminals don't need either one to get their hands on a gun ... the steal one or buy one from another criminal.
It seems Sheriffs and their friends in Raleigh want to keep some form revenue generation and power of who is able to buy a handgun. Of course we know criminals don't need either one to get their hands on a gun ... the steal one or buy one from another criminal.
drypowder
Les Deplorables
Per Michael Howe (if you're not on his NC firearms legislation email list and wish to be included, PM with your email address; he's asked me in the past to not post his email address on the forum). I bolded the part about this bill consolidating portions of gun law scattered throughout the statutes - understanding this will make it easier to read/understand the bill.
HB746 - The bill has passed the House Finance Committee on a party-line vote, and it has been referred for debate and a floor vote by the entire House. This will likely be next week; however, the House legislative calendar hasn't yet been updated, and Speaker Moore has the authority to hold up the bill.
As Grass Roots NC has reported, Rep. Sam Watford, Republican from Davidson County (yes, you read that right) is expected to offer weakening amendments. This is in part why supporters of this bill need to remain actively engaged in contacting House Republicans and insist they pass H746 WITHOUT weakening amendments.
Rep. Watford's phone number is 919-715-2526. Email addresses for all House Republicans are available here.
NOTE: The full text of the current version of H746 can be found here. It is important to remember that despite the myriad of underlined text (usually denoting additions) as well as text that has been stricken (usually denoting deletions), this bill moves portions of existing NC law from other areas of the General Statues in order to make it easier to review the laws rather than a hodgepodge scattered throughout the statutes. Accordingly, these do not necessarily indicate changes to existing law. Also, the media have reported the bill would empower anyone age 18 and older to carry concealed without a permit. This is fake news. Only those 18 or older, WHO ARE NOT PRESENTLY PROHIBITED BY LAW from possessing a firearm (e.g. felons, those adjudicated incompetent, etc.) would be empowered to do so, and it would be limited to only areas where one can currently open carry. Carrying out of state would still require a Concealed Handgun Permit in order to conform with other states' laws.
HB746 - The bill has passed the House Finance Committee on a party-line vote, and it has been referred for debate and a floor vote by the entire House. This will likely be next week; however, the House legislative calendar hasn't yet been updated, and Speaker Moore has the authority to hold up the bill.
As Grass Roots NC has reported, Rep. Sam Watford, Republican from Davidson County (yes, you read that right) is expected to offer weakening amendments. This is in part why supporters of this bill need to remain actively engaged in contacting House Republicans and insist they pass H746 WITHOUT weakening amendments.
Rep. Watford's phone number is 919-715-2526. Email addresses for all House Republicans are available here.
NOTE: The full text of the current version of H746 can be found here. It is important to remember that despite the myriad of underlined text (usually denoting additions) as well as text that has been stricken (usually denoting deletions), this bill moves portions of existing NC law from other areas of the General Statues in order to make it easier to review the laws rather than a hodgepodge scattered throughout the statutes. Accordingly, these do not necessarily indicate changes to existing law. Also, the media have reported the bill would empower anyone age 18 and older to carry concealed without a permit. This is fake news. Only those 18 or older, WHO ARE NOT PRESENTLY PROHIBITED BY LAW from possessing a firearm (e.g. felons, those adjudicated incompetent, etc.) would be empowered to do so, and it would be limited to only areas where one can currently open carry. Carrying out of state would still require a Concealed Handgun Permit in order to conform with other states' laws.
IrishCannon
Fight hard.
it passed financial committee !!!!!!....
floor this weeek ahhhhhhhh siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
floor this weeek ahhhhhhhh siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
fishgutzy
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And we know from Red Dawn(1984) that anyone who wants to confiscate guns starts with the LGS stash of 4473's. [emoji38]
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IrishCannon
Fight hard.
idk the marines have been holding me captive for the last few days, threatening a negligent discharge in one of my arteries with their pocket G43, the sons of bitches!
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H746 is scheduled for a vote on the House floor. Click this link to hear the live session on Wednesday, June 7 (session convenes at 2PM).
Then IF it passes, we will see it vetoed by Cooper. Then it would come down to see if we have enough to over ride the veto. Guys this bill is still not safe and I encourage you all to contact your state legislators and urge them to vote for it.
http://www.wral.com/law-enforcement-opposes-proposal-to-relax-concealed-gun-rules/16746405/
"It means I don't know who the law-abiding citizens are and who the bad guys are," he said. "So, it puts a lot of pressure on us." Wake County Sheriff Donnie Harrison.
So Donnie, that tag you ran said that a bad guy with a gun is driving the car, right?
"It means I don't know who the law-abiding citizens are and who the bad guys are," he said. "So, it puts a lot of pressure on us." Wake County Sheriff Donnie Harrison.
So Donnie, that tag you ran said that a bad guy with a gun is driving the car, right?
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12151791
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Of course law enforcement will oppose just like they did in SC. You would think they can check how other states with constitutional carry handle situations.
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Dale Gribble
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"They're getting some training. They're getting some knowledge of the law. But just to say, 'You're 18 years old, take a gun and go,' that bothers me," Wake County Sheriff Donnie Harrison said Tuesday.
Harrison said ending concealed carry permits adds too much mystery to traffic stops.
"It means I don't know who the law-abiding citizens are and who the bad guys are," he said. "So, it puts a lot of pressure on us."
Find another line of work, then.
I know cops (some in my immediate family) that are "A O.K." with this. They have the common sense to know that the mere presence of a firearm, absent a permit, does not a "bad guy" make. Conversely, the presence of a permit doesn't necessarily mean you can assume you're dealing with a "good guy".
Bad/good is determined by intent/actions.
Harrison said ending concealed carry permits adds too much mystery to traffic stops.
"It means I don't know who the law-abiding citizens are and who the bad guys are," he said. "So, it puts a lot of pressure on us."
Find another line of work, then.
I know cops (some in my immediate family) that are "A O.K." with this. They have the common sense to know that the mere presence of a firearm, absent a permit, does not a "bad guy" make. Conversely, the presence of a permit doesn't necessarily mean you can assume you're dealing with a "good guy".
Bad/good is determined by intent/actions.
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np307
Happy to be here.
I wonder if he's ignorant or being deceptive in not mentioning that 18 year olds can already OC without a permit, and they don't have a way of knowing before walking up to the car that someone is OCing.
I have my opinion on which it is...
I have my opinion on which it is...