NC PPP law?

Trevillian said:
Reading again, still doesn't show a requirement by a private seller to obtain and maintain such. Just a requirement that the buyer be approved to purchase.
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Correct. It says the purchaser has to obtain one. Doesn’t say the individual seller has to take it.

That may have been the intent…but intent isn’t law.
 
Trevillian said:
😱

Now I'm torn. Should I amend my post or delete it outright because I am not fully correct at all?
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I usually use the strikethrough option for things like that. Then a note afterwards in italics if I need to explain why.
 
Trevillian said:
Reading again, still doesn't show a requirement by a private seller to obtain and maintain such. Just a requirement that the buyer be approved to purchase.
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They have to present CHP or PPP. The buyer has to have one or the other in hand. In my understanding that is not in dispute. FFLs have to retain the PPP or document the CHP the law does not state what an individual seller is supposed to do with either when presented.
 
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BigWaylon said:
I usually use the strikethrough option for things like that. Then a note afterwards in italics if I need to explain why.
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I wish. Not good enough to do that lol. I'm lucky when autocorrect only screw me a little...
 
Trevillian said:
I wish. Not good enough to do that lol. I'm lucky when autocorrect only screw me a little...
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Put {s} before the first word you want removed, and {/s} at the end. Just use brackets [] instead of braces {}.

Do it with an i instead of a s for italics. (B for bold, U for underline)
 
wvsig said:
They have to present CHP or PPP. The buyer has to have one or the other in hand. In my understanding that is not in dispute. FFLs have to retain the PPP or document the CHP the law does not state what an individual seller is supposed to do with either when presented.
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I'm not sure where I see that stated? I see that a buyer must do such and a seller may only sell to such. But I don't see where a seller has to prove it, much less with paperwork after the fact?
 
Langley said:
But where is that in NC law? I totally agree it makes sense but is it in writing?
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It is NOT in the law. It is only required by law that a commercial vendor keep it. A private party actually does not even have to SEE it according to the law. I posted that stuff in here in the past numerous times.

You need to know that there will be a hail of questions about "you should keep it 'just in case'" but those guys are of the mistakened impression that going past what the law requires is going to somehow protect you. It won't. If they want you, the law won't stop them.

But that is the law, anyway. If they wanted to make it more specific, they shoulda made it more specific. That is sorta what "law" is for.
 
wvsig said:
They have to present CHP or PPP. The buyer has to have one or the other in hand. In my understanding that is not in dispute.
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Yeah, it kinda is. Mostly because it does not say that. In short, compliance in a non commercial transaction is 100% completely, unqualified, non divided, uniquely and exclusively on the part of the buyer.... according to the TEXT of the law. There are no requirements of verification which are enumerated in the statute.
 
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tanstaafl72555 said:
Yeah, it kinda is. Mostly because it does not say that. In short, compliance in a non commercial transaction is 100% completely, unqualified, non divided, uniquely and exclusively on the part of the buyer.... according to the TEXT of the law. There are no requirements of verification which are enumerated in the statute.
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Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the State, any pistol, unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver possesses a valid North Carolina issued concealed carry permit. This requirement to obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction, typically at a sporting goods store, but
also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14- 402(a).


Curious as to how you accomplish the above without at least seeing the PPP or CCP

I'm willing to concede the law is Vague on records retention for private seller, although no distinction is drawn for commercial or private sell, so if commercial sales are required to keep, then one would believe that private would be required based on there being no distinction between the two.
 
STOP FREAKING QUOTING THE AG OPINION, THAT ISNT THE LAW. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE, THERES LITERALLY A STICKY WITH ALL OF THE RELEVANT STATUTES. I WOULD KNOW, I COMPILED IT.


That is the entire article that addresses the PPP. In it you will find no mention of private party record requirements. You will, however, find the dealers are required to keep records. IM NOT GOING TO QUOTE IT BECAUSE IT ISNT THAT HARD AND YALL NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ THAT DADBLAME LAW.
 
np307 said:
STOP FREAKING QUOTING THE AG OPINION, THAT ISNT THE LAW. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE, THERES LITERALLY A STICKY WITH ALL OF THE RELEVANT STATUTES. I WOULD KNOW, I COMPILED IT.


That is the entire article that addresses the PPP. In it you will find no mention of private party record requirements. You will, however, find the dealers are required to keep records. IM NOT GOING TO QUOTE IT BECAUSE IT ISNT THAT HARD AND YALL NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ THAT DADBLAME LAW.
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Man I bet it hurts to sit with your panties in such a wad…. LMAO 🤣

Lighten up it’s only Tues. It’s not even Thirsty Thursday yet.
 
wvsig said:
Man I bet it hurts to sit with your panties in such a wad…. LMAO 🤣

Lighten up it’s only Tues. It’s not even Thirsty Thursday yet.
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No, it just gives me a headache to watch idiots arguing about the text of the statute WHEN THEY ARENT EVEN QUOTING THE STATUTE.
 
np307 said:
No, it just gives me a headache to watch idiots arguing about the text of the statute WHEN THEY ARENT EVEN QUOTING THE STATUTE.
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Yet even when one quotes the statue idiots argue. It is the nature of the forum.
 
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divisionarmsllc said:
Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the State, any pistol, unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver possesses a valid North Carolina issued concealed carry permit. This requirement to obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction, typically at a sporting goods store, but
also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14- 402(a).


Curious as to how you accomplish the above without at least seeing the PPP or CCP

I'm willing to concede the law is Vague on records retention for private seller, although no distinction is drawn for commercial or private sell, so if commercial sales are required to keep, then one would believe that private would be required based on there being no distinction between the two.
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The last time I sold to a person without a ccw, I simply asked them if they had a permit (did not demand to see it) asked them if they had proof of residency in NC, and I *DID* go a little beyond the law and asked them if there was any reason they could not legally possess a firearm (in case there was a flub up in the permit).
Kindly refer again to the text of the law and explain to me how I did not comply with it. Don't tell me what you think reasonable people would infer, as this is, plainly and simply, no part of the law. THE LAW is what THE LAW states. If they want it specific, they have to make it specific.
I read your citation (which I have posted in here multiple times, btw). Remind me where it states it is my responsibility as a private seller to confirm that the buyer is in accord with the law.

I'll wait.......
 
Honestly I think it is hilarious watching people get so wound up about this issue. It is amusing.
 
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divisionarmsllc said:
I'm willing to concede the law is Vague on records retention for private seller, although no distinction is drawn for commercial or private sell, so if commercial sales are required to keep, then one would believe that private would be required based on there being no distinction between the two.
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How is this vague?

§ 14-406. Dealer to keep record of sales; confidentiality of records.
(a) Every dealer in pistols and other weapons mentioned in this Article shall keep an accurate record of all sales thereof, including the name, place of residence, date of sale, etc., of each person, firm, or corporation to whom or which such sales are made. The records maintained by a dealer pursuant to this section are confidential and are not a public record under G.S. 132-1; provided, however, that the dealer shall make the records available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies.

Private sellers are not dealers, therefore there are no paperwork requirements.
 
wvsig said:
Honestly I think it is hilarious watching people get so wound up about this issue. It is amusing.
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I am so sleepy I can hardly post, so I certainly am not wound up about it. I am just waiting up to see if the merc assigned an in the money call to me and then I am going to bed.
Again, I am not upset.
I am just right :)

By the way "vague" may refer to a person's reasoning ability. It does NOT apply to the text of the law on the issue, which is crystal clear. The intent of the law may be vague, and frankly I could give a howling zip about the "intent." The factual, empirical, stated law is the only thing that is enforceable in a society with rule of law. If otoh you DON'T have the rule of law, then it doesn't matter much anyway.
 
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Me. said:
Let me try something here… I’ll reword the statute a little, retaining the wording in question. I’m making a new hypothetical law where a buyer is allowed to buy things tax-free if they can prove tax-exempt status. Read through, there will be a quiz…





Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the State, any pistol,
UNTAXED ITEM

unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol
PROVING TAX EXEMPTION

by the sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver possesses a valid North Carolina issued concealed carry permit. This requirement to obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol
UNTAXED PURCHASE

applies not only to a commercial transaction, typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina.

N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-402(a).








Here is the quiz….

If someone with a permit from the Sheriff proving tax-exempt status makes a purchase from you, and you see that permit and don’t charge them tax….. do you take their permit from them?








If you answered “yes” you’re just making shit up that isn’t there.
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I am not sure how it works in NC but when I owned a business VA in order to not charge you tax I needed to receive a tax exempt certificate or a resellers certificate. If I was audited by the state any sales where I did not charge tax needed the certificate. If I could not produce the certificate I would be charged the tax.

So I’m not sure your example actually works to prove your point. We would have to know the rest of the sales tax laws for NC for your wordsmithing to have any validity.
 
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Catfish said:
Please cite the statute that says this explicitly, and bold the important part, because I am kinda dumb.
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I have already stated in a later post that I concede that in my opinion it may be vague or here is something...I might just be wrong , and I'm willing to be just that.

I don't see how you can just except someone has a permit without even seeing it and recording it, but again it's just an opinion
 
divisionarmsllc said:
I have already stated in a later post that I concede that in my opinion it may be vague or here is something...I might just be wrong , and I'm willing to be just that.

I don't see how you can just except someone has a permit without even seeing it and recording it, but again it's just an opinion
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I am not aware of where the law states otherwise. That is the point here. I am actually in agreement with you that it is impossible to verify it without seeing it (doh!). That is not the issue, though. The issue is what does THE LAW state is the obligation of the seller (nothing) and what is the obligation of the buyer (everything).
Please acknowledge that this is the starting point for the conversation, otherwise it is like arguing with an obstinate child who simply does not want to see the point. I don't think that is you, btw, but so many of these convos (we have had a few on this forum and some have gotten downright spangledy) on this and related topics get so *@##@!#%$ BORING because people simply won't acknowledge THIS IS WHAT THE LAW SAYS and want to run down some path to what they "think" it "means."
 
divisionarmsllc said:
I have already stated in a later post that I concede that in my opinion it may be vague or here is something...I might just be wrong , and I'm willing to be just that.

I don't see how you can just except someone has a permit without even seeing it and recording it, but again it's just an opinion
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Sorry I didn’t read the whole thread before posting. Not for me to decide how you do business. I look at permits and ID so I can know I followed the law.
 
Catfish said:
Sorry I didn’t read the whole thread before posting. Not for me to decide how you do business. I look at permits and ID so I can know I followed the law.
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I guess it's easier being an FFL, we have pretty strict guidelines. ATF is being hard nosed, it will trickle down to private sales. People read and interpret laws differently, I don't have a need to be right, apparently some on here do!
 
Laws are not applied in a vacuum as a standalone thing no matter how much we wish they were or claim them to be on this forum.

I don’t keep PPP permits but if I am selling a pistol I am going to need to see a valid one or a CHP with a matching NC DL. That is a requirement for me personally to sell anyone a handgun FTF.

You and others are free to do as you see fit. I am not sure why people insist that everyone does as they do.
 
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divisionarmsllc said:
I guess it's easier being an FFL, we have pretty strict guidelines. ATF is being hard nosed, it will trickle down to private sales. People read and interpret laws differently, I don't have a need to be right, apparently some on here do!
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I prefer to refer to it as a "compulsion," or "neurotic urge." It is sorta like being passive aggressive.
 
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