I need to weld a 3/4” thick plate to a 1-1/2” diameter solid tower leg 300’ up on a tower. What welding machine(s) would handle that? We’ll be using 7018 rods. What would the minimum size leads be?
Need welding machine advice
- Thread starter 1911gobang
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That 300’ is killer. At 150 amps (high end of a 1/8” 7018 electrode), you’re beyond the range of what a 4/0 cable would support. If you can get a power supply 125’ in the air on a bucket lift, you could do it with 200 feet of 3/0.
Well if you got $3600 in the budget...
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It even has "tactical" in the name!
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It even has "tactical" in the name!
Alan, been there, done that (except it was 1000’ up In Fargo, ND in January! Talk about cold!)
Rent an engine driven welder and rig the tower with a load line. Hoist the welder up and go to town. You’ll have power for the grinders and wire brushes too.
I would suggest at least a 250a or more powerful DC machine so that you don’t hit the duty cycle.
I’d personally do some root passes with 5p (6010) and cap with 7018.
Rent an engine driven welder and rig the tower with a load line. Hoist the welder up and go to town. You’ll have power for the grinders and wire brushes too.
I would suggest at least a 250a or more powerful DC machine so that you don’t hit the duty cycle.
I’d personally do some root passes with 5p (6010) and cap with 7018.
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OP
Thanks Scott….
This is what I was thinking…..
Just seeing if there were other options
OP
So this is the plan….
Gonna heavy rig the tower and fly a Miller Bobcat 225G up to 220’ and set it on the torque arms. 500# will fly easy….
Gonna heavy rig the tower and fly a Miller Bobcat 225G up to 220’ and set it on the torque arms. 500# will fly easy….
Chriselalto
Well-Known Member
Mod crews on towers I visit use a suitcase setup.
Chriselalto
Well-Known Member
Don't set that weight on the torque arms. Also that amount of weight will require a cat4 rigging plan signed off by and stamped by a licensed engineer.
Hahaha ha. He's been towering longer than half of the members on this forum have been alive
I'm pretty sure he knows what's up.
At 300' height? For welding 3/4" steel to a solid 2"+ leg, unless you have enough power for spray transfer MIG, good old fashioned stick welding will provide much greater penetration welding that plate to the solid tower leg. And if you do use a spray transfer MIG you'll have to hump 300' of 4/0 cable up the tower. That's around 250 pounds just in cable.
If you have to rig the tower to pull up the welding cable, why not just run an engine driven welder up and not have to worry about duty cycle or resistance?
Welding 1/4" angle on a tower is one thing - welding a 3/4" plate to sold steel leg is something totally different in terms of the integrity required for the weldment.
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A torque arm will see one helluva lot more loading on it from a 50 mph wind than that welder will put on it. Guy wires are typically pre-tensioned to 10% of breaking strength, and wind loading on one side of a tower will easily increase the guy wire load by over 500 lbs.
Why a root pass of a 60k steel instead of using all 70k steel?
Deeper penetration. Besides, the metal being welded usually has a tensile strength below 60ksi. With a proper weld, a faulure will occur adjacent to the weld and not thru it. Deeper penetration reduces the chance of a failure.
OP
Way ahead of you junior….
My engineer has no trouble resting it on the torque arms, and the plan is already in his laptop. We’re gonna put a 1 ton chain fall hoist above it to lift about 75% of the weight. After we get the new guys on the tower, the torque arm will be removed.
I’ve got 39-1/2 years in this industry. I’ve hoisted 5 ton loads a quarter mile in the air. This welder rigging ain’t nothing…..
Scott, I agree with the 60ksi rods. Steel is typically grade 3 or 5, so not ridiculously hard. 60k will be plenty. 7/16” guys on lower welds (tension to 2,080 pounds) and upper welds are just shear stops to prevent any drop down of the bolt-on guy pulloff, so they won’t have any pull on them. There’s gonna be 12- 5/8” U bolts clamping tge pulloff bracket to the legs, so shear stops are redundant IMO, but it is what it is, sooooo….
Playing with the sun and being 2 miles up.
Combining two of the scariest things I know..
😱😱😱😱
We've got the beginnings of an epic measuring contest starting here. I want to follow all developments
It is Friday
Tropical Storm Friday
Chriselalto
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt you do. I have pulled up on many a site and found crews rigging the tower for loads that do not even pass the eyeball inspection from the ground. Some crews(not all) thing nobody will be coming to the site when they are rigged. But oh yes we do. I've shut down crews for the day and days afterward because they dont have their certificates on site.
Found one crew removing a bent horizontal on a SS with no plan or certs at all.
A showdown between the guys who get stuff done and the guys with clipboards.
🍿
🍿
Having been on both sides over the years, it is definitely more fun and more dangerous to be on the GSD side...
That clipboard can inspire a lot of hate even if you end up helping someone avoid a big problem!
If you could stop being reasonable for a minute that would be great. I'm trying to I instigate here.
OP
“Certs”….
I love that word!! In my last ComTrain class, the instructor 💩 his pants when they did the round Robin asking errbody’s experience!! Most were 3 years or less, one 8 year, and a 12 year….
Instructor had 13 years!!! 😆😆😆
He said “maybe you oughta teach the class!”
🤠
I’m guessing you’re a safety officer or CM for ATC or CC?
No doubt there are some stupid people in this industry. I’ve seen rigging that absolutely scared the begeezus outta me…..
We train annually with quarterly reviews, and the daily tailgates….
The only reason I did ComTrain in the first place was for ONE customer. Spent $5,000.00 on that stupid class to go do a $10,000.00 job….
I’ve kept it up until 2020. Never been asked for it again.
We don’t do ANY carrier work. Nada. Zilch. 🤬 that. The fiber ferries can have that 💩
TV, broadcast, microwave, government, and public utility work is all we do. And I like it that way.
OP
It’s not dangerous unless you’re stupid!! We bust our ass to make sure we’re as safe as humanly possible. I’m sure I’ve destroyed thousands of dollars of gear that was okay, but I tell my guys “any doubt? Throw it out!”
I even contemplated a small X ray machine for shackles, blocks, and steel slings….
Replacing them is WAY cheaper!!😆
Oh yeah, the planning and precautions deal with most of the work risk, but it's the unexpected stuff like weather, wildlife, or material failure that affect the workers far more than the inspectors!
If only more folks took it as seriously as you do 👍
OP
It’s amazing how much havoc a dozen red wasps can cause!!😳😂
Engineer: You're doing this wrong.
Mechanic 1: What do you know about it?
Mechanic 2: Dude, he wrote the procedure.
Mechanic 1: Crap...
Me too.
When I was carrying the clipboard, I found that the crews developed a lot more respect for me when I went up the tower with them.
No one likes the guy with the clipboard, until things go sideways and people get hurt or crap gets broke and the lawyers start asking questions. Then it's all:
"Well the (inspector, engineer,...) said it was what the correct way to do it". LOL
"Well the (inspector, engineer,...) said it was what the correct way to do it". LOL
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- Dec 19, 2016
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Mechanic 3: Well Mr. Enginerd, stick your hand up in there and get the wrench on that fastener and get it loose when you only have 3/4 inch to swing the wrench from side to side. And I dont care if you can't see the bolt, you'll just have to do it by feel. 😡
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That's not the reputation this engineer has.
It's more like "get out of the way and let me in there".
😉
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My son was/is the youngest ME (mech engineer) graduate of NC State. Once he decided to become an ME, I made him work on all sorts of stuff. He rebuilt the engine in his car, left the block in, pulled the head, crank and all, with me standing over his shoulder. I pointed out every good and bad enginerring decision I could see.
He got a few gigs and was very frustrated the norm was, “If you find a way to make this for $0.02 less, you’ll get a bonus.” Those incentives make many items unserviceable.
Or design it to make a profit on the back end, water pumps driven by timing chain internal to the block, shaft seal fails, coolant destroys the engine.