I didn't think so, it just looks like regular ammo marketed for short barrelsMost of the 'expert' reviews I have seen (and I'd refer the interested to search Paul Harrell's reviews first) indicate that they carry no particular performance improvement over comparable rounds. YMMV.
I've noticed that too, upon doing a little more research the standard pressure seems to expand better than +P for most brandsIn the ballistic gelatin test they all of the gold dots seem to perform similarly out of a 3.5" M&P9C except the 147gr that didn't expand. I'm always impressed that the standard velocity often seem to do as well or better than the +P.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm
.357 makes a bigger hole.Think I'll carry that old S&W Model 12 tomorrow.....yep....think I will...………………..
I didn't think so, it just looks like regular ammo marketed for short barrels
But as I dont have a chrono, I'll take you's guy's's word for it
The things that amazed me:Good info..Underwood stuff is Good, no doubt. The problem jell shooters run into and seldom address is, once that block is shot it should Not be used for the Next test. When Julian Hatcher tested to blow up a Colt 1911 he used a different and new pistol for each shot. When you're using tax money no cost is too much. At the very least he should have turned the blocks around and shot where they had not been shot.
@Michael458 has been using these bullets for testing for over a year now. He has all the pressure data and penetration in real life repeatable penetration. As he always says "The bullet does the heavy lifting". Underwood had the good sense to reach out and make available on a larger scale for folks who don't won't to reload. Those bullitts are a little gimmicky looking But the results can't be argued with. Or I should say not by people who can interpret results.Underwood appears to have some features that mark it as exceptional.
ICYMI, M.A.C. did a really interesting review of the newer bullet (90gr) in the Underwood Xtreme Defender +P+ 9mm ammo. Yes, it is ballistic gel testing, but the conclusions are really independently extraordinary, at least to my unsophisticated eye.
"The bullet does the heavy lifting"
This Underwood ammo uses Lehigh controlled fracturing. 105gr +PThe Bullet is everything. If you want to be successful in your mission, or endeavor, choose the right bullet for the mission at hand. This becomes important in the extreme when terminal performance is required, or desired.
Mission
Suitable bullet/load for short barreled 9mm guns.
Everything comes at a cost. By choosing a small 9mm, light, shorter firearm, while it is easier to carry, more concealable, the cost is less velocity/performance. How can we enhance the performance of any cartridge/firearm that has limited abilities? We are limited by size of the firearm and the cartridge capacity, so no where to go in that department. Our other choices, "The Bullet"............... Traditional or Conventional bullets may not be as effective at lower velocities the smaller firearm can produce. These bullets being designed to work at 100-150 fps faster, sometimes do not react well at even slightly less velocities. At lower velocities these bullet will give you #1 Less Penetration #2 Less Trauma inflicted. Fact of life, you cannot get around these Factors, with traditional conventional bullets.
Today we are truly blessed with better, and yes, more expensive bullets. I used to raise this point with some hunters. Here we have a Hunter that is spending 10s of 1000s of $$ on a big game hunt, and bitches about the cost of a $1.50 bullet? And chooses a cheap, $0.25 bullet to hunt with! And then FAILS. Looses his animal, comes home empty handed. WTF Kind of mentality is that?
Can't tell you what to do exactly, that is up to you.
What do I do in this case?
To begin with in 9mm, I carry in all my guns what I think and believe to be the very best ammo and bullets available to me, regardless of the size of the firearm. They just happen to be the perfect choice for the smaller, more compact handguns that I have, SIG 938, little Kimber's, and Shields. I hand load so I cannot attest to what factory ammo does or does not do. In 9mm for my purposes I have adopted the 90 Raptor from Cutting Edge Bullets, the 90 Extreme Defense from Lehigh, and the 115 Extreme Penetrator from Lehigh. I also prefer a good Flat Nose FMJ to back these up. Currently using the 115 FMJ RMR bullet, that has a decent, not perfect, but decent size Meplat.
I have tested these bullets for terminal performance. My test medium is a bit tougher than ballistic gel, using wet news print along with thinner layers of magazine/catalog material. I have been working with this medium for well over 25 years, and it has been used to develop and design various different bullets for big game with extreme success. For big bore rifles, gel cannot be used.
I see the good points about the Underwood ammo. I have never seen or even actually heard of Underwood, but the fact they are using the 90 Lehigh and testing it, and getting the same results that I get here is a testament to their understanding of the bullet and what it does.
JD Jones and I were working with this type bullet back in 2006, and this is the origin of the current Lehighs you see today. Because David Fricke, owner of Lehigh, was making the bullets JD and I were testing, they were in .500 caliber and designed for rifles of course. And, they worked. The ones JD and I used were not as "radical" as the Lehighs you see today. But they did work, they did move fluid, and they did leave a more permanent wound channel than the same bullet as a solid, with no cuts in the meplat. I even tested this bullet on Cape Buffalo with good results. Since those early days, Lehigh has done an extremely good job at further research, and tweaking the nose to perfection.
The Extreme Defense and Extreme Penetrator bullets work off the principle of moving fluids at such a rate that it rips and tears the medium, or tissue, causing a more permanent wound channel. While the wound channel is not as
extreme as a Raptor from Cutting Edge, or the Controlled Fracturing from Lehigh, it is still substantial and would compare favorably with "conventional or traditional expanding Bullets", if not exceeding in most cases. In addition to increased trauma inflicted, these bullets far out penetrate conventional expanding bullets, and that is the part I like. While they do not penetrate as deep as a Flat Nose FMJ or Solid, they are more than conventional expanding, more than Raptors/Controlled Fracturing. You almost have the best of both worlds. Increased Trauma and Increased Penetration. These are "In Between" bullets. And work very well.
And this is how I "Enhance" my 9mm Firearms, regardless of size.
90 Lehigh/90 Raptors
With my Load in 7.5 to 8 inch guns I get a velocity of 1600 fps
5 inch guns 1466 fps
4 inch guns 1422 fps
Sig 938 and Shields 1265-1295 fps
To begin with in 9mm, I carry in all my guns what I think and believe to be the very best ammo and bullets available to me, regardless of the size of the firearm. They just happen to be the perfect choice for the smaller, more compact handguns that I have, SIG 938, little Kimber's, and Shields. I hand load so I cannot attest to what factory ammo does or does not do. In 9mm for my purposes I have adopted the 90 Raptor from Cutting Edge Bullets, the 90 Extreme Defense from Lehigh, and the 115 Extreme Penetrator from Lehigh. I also prefer a good Flat Nose FMJ to back these up. Currently using the 115 FMJ RMR bullet, that has a decent, not perfect, but decent size Meplat.
I've been ammo shopping since he posted that lolAnd as far as I am concerned, that seals the deal for me. Thank you @Michael458 and @BatteryOaksBilly for your work and for sharing your wisdom and experience with us!
This Underwood ammo uses Lehigh controlled fracturing. 105gr +P
I like the slicing and dicing idea.Again, excellent bullet, and does exactly what it says...... These are not "Magic Bullets", these are the real deal and every single one of them does exactly what they say the do. This is not the same hyper crap we used to get
from the likes of the really big Manufacturers. Not only that, but every single bullet will behave the same as the one before. All are CNC Machined, there are no variables at play from bullet to bullet.
If you do not hand load, then the Underwood looks like a good option to try. BTW, with the Controlled Fracturing bullet and all the Raptors from Cutting Edge. They are not "Petals", they are "Blades"............... Petals peel and push, Blades slice and dice. The blades that shear slice and dice their way through vitals, vessels, and tissue to obtain deeper penetration than what a "Petal" can push through. All the while, the remaining "Blunt Force Slug" continues to penetrate straight.
I like the slicing and dicing idea
I'll be ordering some as soon as I can, that's for sureRaptors are famous for that, and it is extreme. I have a lot of experience with them in rifles and first hand experience from 9.3 caliber to .510 caliber. For instance "blades" only weigh in at 6-9 grains with those big bore bullets, yet can exit broadside animals that weigh in up to 250 lbs. Now a projectile that weighs 6-9 grains cannot do that, even full weight 38 specials cannot do that. But here a measly little 6-9 gr blade off of a Raptor bullet can exit deer + size animals? It does not do that from pushing it's way through tissue. It "Slices and Dices" its way through.
Another plus with these type bullets, is that those blades are working close with the center bullet once they shear. Everything is moving forward, they shear consistently at 1.5 inches of penetration, the shear is like a miniature grenade exploding. As all move forward, for a few inches the blades are close to the center bullet. As tissue expands when a bullet passes through, then later contracts back down, these blades are slicing and dicing that tissue for the first few inches, that area does not contract back, and is now sliced and part of a more permanent cavity. After about 3-4 inches of penetration, the blades have moved far enough away from center to become secondary projectiles on their own.
From this effect, vessels, tissue, organs are all sliced, causing incredible blood loss. Unless you have seen it in the field, you cannot begin to understand it completely.
Naturally these little 9 mm Raptors and Fractures are nothing compared to a rifle bullet, but about as good as it gets within the same category. Compared to other bullets, all these Lehighs and Cutting Edge are just a long way ahead of what you are used to.
Cost? Yes, of course. But its not like you are going to be shooting them in the 1000s of rounds...> Shoot enough to make sure your firearm feeds and functions, and sight in and such, and that is it.
I had a good bit of these loaded. But between my boys, Billy, and a few others, my damn supplies has dwindled! I am going to have to order some more! LOL
I saw this a while back and is why I use 124 +P gold dots. I really like them but we’re kind of splitting hairs with these top quality defensive loads.In the ballistic gelatin test they all of the gold dots seem to perform similarly out of a 3.5" M&P9C except the 147gr that didn't expand. I'm always impressed that the standard velocity often seem to do as well or better than the +P.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm
True, a lot of them are basically the sameI saw this a while back and is why I use 124 +P gold dots. I really like them but we’re kind of splitting hairs with these top quality defensive loads.
Try Cutting Edge Bullets.Is there a place to get the Lehigh Penetrator/defender bullets for reloading at a reasonable price...maybe a bulk discount?
When I go through my stash of HST/Gold Dot I would be open to using these primarily.
I could listen to him talk about bullet tech for hours, lol.
and thank you @Michael458 for having us over again
WHAT!? Whatja Say!!! I was dosin off...……………….Puts Billy to sleep! HEH
WHAT!? Whatja Say!!! I was dosin off...……………….