Solvent trap kits

Discussion in 'NFA - Stamp collecting' started by BigWaylon, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
  2. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    First three are boxed up and shipping out tomorrow. I’ll wait until he looks them over to see if the plan will work before I share what I hope the outcome will be. :cool:

    Just to give you an idea, this guy has been doing some slick stuff...like redoing AAC 51T cans (and others) so they’ll accept all the mounting adapters that fit the Omega thread pitch. Here are some examples: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/SDN6-direct-thread-pics/20-501017/
     
    NoNameHaveI and JimP42 like this.
  3. Clicker

    Clicker Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I'd love to have Ecco jailbreak my Raptor 40 but I've spent enough money over the last 2 years on "gun stuff" that it's best I wait awhile.

    I'm surprised the wife hasn't given me a hickory shampoo already, she's a keeper.
     
    Millie, Bradman and BigWaylon like this.
  4. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Just got off the phone with the guy. We’ve agreed on a plan and ballpark price.

    He’s going to take my three steel ones (he tested them and says they’re some kind of 300-series stainless, not carbon steel) and cut the tube. He’ll use my tube for the blast chamber and I’ll keep the ability to swap mounting adapters.

    Then he’s going to thread the far end of the blast chamber. Build me tubeless stacks for all three (whatever number fit for the shortest, then + 2 for middle and +2 more for longest) and weld all that together. The stack will be screwed into the blast chamber and then welded. The last baffle will be stepped up in OD to allow my current end caps to be used. The stack should be the same OD as the blast chamber, so they’ll retain their overall “dog bone” shape. You’ll see the welds like on an Omega 9K/45K and YHM Turbo.

    He thinks he’ll have them done by Labor Day. If so, I maybe be able to take them to the metering event in Georgia on Sat 9/7 and compare them to my other commercial cans. And depending on when they show up, they’ll either be re-Cerakoted before or after the test by @Magdump.

    REALLY excited about seeing the results.
     
    NoNameHaveI, Zbizzle911 and Bradman like this.
  5. Bradman

    Bradman Active Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    474
    Location:
    Henderson/Epsom

    So, you are an awesome resource and I'm asking a few questions that I have as I am ready to take the plunge.

    After all is said and done, is it cheaper and the better deal to go with a suppressor manufacturer? If I am going to have to "re do" my suppressor, have someone else make new baffles and all of that, would I be better off to buy a pre-made can?

    Rolling your own smoke is cool and it is so much faster doing a form 1, but I am being warned by form 4 guys that the better can costs $100 more on the front end and has a warranty and replacement parts. Is this true?

    I am looking at doing a form 1 on a solvent trap that will cost $225 plus the $200 stamp. Would I be better served, although it will take longer, to go through Silencerco and get a sparrow2 or one of the 22lr cans. They are $360 or so today plus my stamp.

    Your opinion?
     
  6. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    My opinion? Cause I always have one of those handy!! :D

    Random thoughts in no order:
    1. I wouldn’t buy a Sparrow. I own one, and it’s the one can I wish I didn’t buy for a couple of reasons. (I do wish I had a Resonator instead of a Nitro, but it didn’t exist at the time I bought the Nitro).
    2. I’ll have 9 Form 1 cans as soon as I finish up these last two, and only one is a rimfire can. And that’s only because I wanted a 1.25” OD can for a specific application.
    3. Considering you can buy a Turbo or Turbo K, with a muzzle device, for slightly north of $300...there’s not a lot of reason to build a 5.56 can. Other deals on commercial cans also pop up occasionally.
    4. All that being said, it’s fun. The thought of a $200 stamp on a $12 rimfire can from eBay sounds crazy, but you usually go from submission to approval in less than a month. And the $200 is a one-time tax.
    5. Mine worked just fine full of $.69 freeze plugs, but the weight of them was a little heavier than I wanted. If they were Ti tubes, I may not have done anything...but I was also intrigued by the tubeless design, especially with my ability to still swap the ends around.
    6. Only you can decide if the warranty is worth $X.
    7. After these recores, I’ll have a 3-pack of silencers with baffles made by a commercial silencer manufacturer, with each one costing about half of what most SiCo, Dead Air, Rugged, etc option would be.

    I think I may have mentioned it before, but in case I forgot...when I shot my F1 freeze plug cans with the guys from CA and SS, they said they’re seriously consider never buying another commercial can if you could get that performance for that price. At that time speed wasn’t even a factor because EForms was dead.
     
  7. Bradman

    Bradman Active Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    474
    Location:
    Henderson/Epsom
    Gotcha. I have purchased some solvent traps and will probably do at least one form 1, just wanted your advice.
     
  8. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Maverick Precision likes this.
  9. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    A sneak peek...

    FABEF0A3-76AA-4BC3-B8CD-7966D44619C4.jpeg

    72EA6EE8-0C58-4D81-B081-40A1F1CB16C1.jpeg

    Just have to clip, heat treat and weld. Probably done early next week. :cool:
     
    MadMardigan likes this.
  10. amnesia

    amnesia Habitual Trader Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    3,998
    Location:
    West of Charlotte
    My accuracy with my AAC 762 -51T isn't the best. I'm wondering if this would fix it.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
     
  11. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Probably meant to quote one of the earlier posts, where ECCO (Nick) converts the AAC cans to the Omega thread pitch?

    I’ve never used 51T, but it wouldn’t hurt my feeling to ditch that setup if I had any. You could go direct thread, or several other QD options.
     
  12. amnesia

    amnesia Habitual Trader Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    3,998
    Location:
    West of Charlotte
    I'm wondering if the investment in the can to make it function like it should is even worth it. Especially when I can get a turbo for relatively cheap.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
     
  13. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    No stamp. Maybe 2-3 week turnaround. Even if the cost is similar to a Turbo, you still have those two advantages.

    Not sure what he charges to do that work, but there’s at least one example in the thread of him doing it. Customer had Griffin drop ship a Plan A to ECCO. Another had the Q Plan B installed. You could stick with your YHM stuff and use the QD mount from the Turbo K (didn’t you buy one of those?).
     
  14. amnesia

    amnesia Habitual Trader Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    3,998
    Location:
    West of Charlotte
    I mean heck... I think even a direct thread I'd be ok with. I never move it around and it stays on my 300blk SBR
     
    BigWaylon likes this.
  15. Goofyfoot2001

    Goofyfoot2001 Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    8,990
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Where is this form 1 tut?
     
  16. Jabroni

    Jabroni Active Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    626
    Location:
    Purlear, NC
    Theres a "guide to nfa forms" sticky.
     
  17. Goofyfoot2001

    Goofyfoot2001 Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    8,990
    Location:
    South Carolina
  18. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
  19. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    I don’t remember the exact numbers (can probably find where I posted them somewhere), but these three cans originally weighed ~21oz, 23oz and 25oz.

    In addition to redoing the stack, I asked him to shorten them up just a little from the 7”, 8”, 9” they were. He just sent me these measurements...post-clipping but pre-welding. (All taken with 5/8 DT adapter installed)

    6.6” = 13.8oz
    7.5” = 15.4oz
    8.5” = 17.1oz

    I’m assuming the welding adds a little weight? And the Cerakote may add some additional grams. :D
     
  20. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    This pic shows the blast baffle on the left, with the external threads that allow it to thread into the blast chamber...which was my original tube. The middle baffle is a standard baffle which is welded in place. The one on the right is the last baffle, internally threaded to accept my end caps.

    00BA0E72-879D-4034-9501-B3ACB4B530CA.jpeg

    The only work he’s done since the first pics he sent was to clip the baffles. Heat treating still to come. And he’s holding off on welding until he finishes up some other projects this week so he can sit down and do it all at once.
     
  21. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    A little update on this. Doesn’t sound like it’s a crackdown on the F1 industry at all. Seems like he was a civilian employee on an AFB and was reselling parts. Rumors he may have also been assembling and selling completed suppressors to those on base. There’s a pic on ARF of a dry erase board with a note that says turn it in if you bought one.

    Wrong place. Wrong time. And possibly didn’t follow all applicable statutes.
     
    dkmatthews likes this.
  22. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Here’s another random thought that may have escaped most of you.

    A tube with a mounting adapter in one end and a end cap with a bore drilled in it in the other is a silencer...even without any baffles. So, you could:

    1. File a Form 1
    2. Once approved, build your baffleless silencer
    3. Find a SOT willing to do a recore (probably line this up ahead of time)

    You get the speed of an EForm. Zero $/time wasted on selecting/buying/drilling/clipping baffles and cutting spacers. And the quality of manufactured baffles. No warranty (most likely), but probably 1/2 the cost of a majority of silencers on the market.

    The three I’m in the process of having redone are a little more than a Turbo/Turbo K, $100-$200 less than some of my older YHM fans, and about half the cost of my two Sakers.

    Another option if you’re going D-cell sized is to drill holes in freeze plugs, but don’t worry about forming them or clipping them. Fill the tube for <$10. This would work if you had a SOT that insisted they needed to be destroy the old baffles.
     
  23. dave421

    dave421 Active Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    384
    Location:
    Hickory area
    Who are you having do yours? Mind saying?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Nick @ ECCO Machine
     
    dave421 likes this.
  25. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Needed to place an order for high temp (1800°F) Cerakote...and was this close to choosing this:

    C7D71623-108C-401A-AE03-7300BDDA75D3.png

    What stopped me is the small bottle is enough to do these three, plus three more I need to have coated. And I didn’t want the other three to be gold. :(
     
  26. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    concepthomes1 likes this.
  27. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
  28. concepthomes1

    concepthomes1 When do we start? Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,909
    Likes Received:
    9,659
    Location:
    NC
    My little kit came today. I guess I didn’t realize how tiny it would be.

    It’ll be a swell .22 can after the stamp is approved.
     
    Oneofsix and BigWaylon like this.
  29. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    One of the eBay options? Or something else?
     
  30. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    BTW...I mailed four more kits to Nick @ ECCO for him to finish up for me. :cool:
     
    concepthomes1 likes this.
  31. jmccracken1214

    jmccracken1214 I didn’t learn the first time

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    4,876
    Likes Received:
    4,086
    Location:
    Thomasville, North Carolina
    With something like this, is it as simple as have the proper sized hole drilled through the pieces?
    B971630E-AB89-45DF-936D-9AD8D51FED86.png
     
  32. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Yes. Drilled would be ok. Drilled and clipped would be better.

    But...you’re not going to drill a big enough hole to reduce that 33+ ounces down to something you’d want to use.
     
  33. concepthomes1

    concepthomes1 When do we start? Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,909
    Likes Received:
    9,659
    Location:
    NC
    It was one of those 1x6 aluminum kits at one of the eBay links upstream.
     
    Oneofsix and BigWaylon like this.
  34. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    I just added the following note to the OP. Posting it here so everybody that’s current in the thread sees it.

    Note(s): solvent traps are not NFA items, but can be converted into NFA firearms; this is no different than legally owning an AR pistol or a 16” AR and wanting to convert it into an SBR; you need to be aware of all NFA regulations, and do not modify anything without an approved Form 1; remember, there are also engraving requirements that must be met for all NFA items, and they’re even more involved for a firearm you make by starting with a non-firearm (similar to starting with an 80% lower); feel free to ask any questions you want relating to this topic in the thread, or send me a PM and I’ll answer if I can
     
    concepthomes1 likes this.
  35. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Because most of us like pictures, and actual data, I’m going to post a couple things. The first is a series of commercial silencer cutaway pics. One was posted earlier in the thread.

    Dead Air Sandman S
    Dead Air Sandman Ti
    Dead Air Sandman L

    54E503B2-7FEC-4ABA-A0FF-DFA70471AA7D.jpeg

    Silencerco Specwar
    Silencerco Saker

    709C9F03-0633-4DBC-9D8D-9F4B2D3A3DED.jpeg

    Larue Tranquilo Surg

    1317BA3C-9FAC-4418-92D2-5472BF92C1FE.jpeg


    Those are all fairly modern cans. You can see the variety of baffle design, number of baffles, and spacing. More than one way to skin a cat.
     
  36. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    The next up is a pic I posted in the NFA Pic thread. It’s the redone baffle stacks welded up for my three F1 cans that ECCO just finished. You can see the baffles, but Nick gave the spacing info in a thread on ARF when somebody asked.

    EE411221-D099-48F2-B519-55F9531E5EA0.jpeg

    You can see some of the commercial cans are evenly spaced, while others tend to get tighter together the further away from the barrel you get. For my three:

    The spacing is a little different on each. They have 9, 7 and 6 baffles, respectively. In terms of the distance between the distal face of one to the proximal face of the next:

    Long can: .75, .65, .65, .55, .45, .35, .35, .35

    Medium: .75, .65, .55, .45, .4, .35

    Short: .75, .55, .45, .35, .25

    The blast baffles appear much shorter because 3/8" of them is threaded into the tube. Each cone skirt is .075" longer than the spacing denoted; the shoulders are .050" thick, and each has a .025" register on the back side. Walls are .050" on all, blast baffle cones are .065" thick, remainder are .040".

    These are all 50° since the cans are geared toward supersonic centerfire rifle rounds.


    He uses 60° cones and different spacing/clipping for subsonic designs.
     
  37. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    For anybody that’s bought one of the aluminum eBay kits...mind giving me the length, OD and weight? I’m seeing diameter and length on most of them, but not weight. And since there are different sizes, I’d like to know which one weighs what.

    Thanks.

    (PM is fine if you don’t want to post it)
     
  38. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
  39. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    He got the package this morning. Called me with a couple questions. Said he had some work lined up for this week and should have my stuff done next week. <2 hours later, he sends me a pic of the handguard I had him open the ID on.

    About an hour ago, he sends me a text to say it’s all done and how much insurance did I want. So in about 7 hours today he’d opened up the handguard, added 12pt flats to two end DT adapters, and drilled/clipped 26 baffles, plus whatever else he was already working on.

    Really excited to see everything when it gets here. And hopefully get most of it to the range next Friday.
     
  40. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    23,389
    Likes Received:
    69,391
    Location:
    Charlotte
    For the machinists in the crowd, this will either amaze you or convince you Nick is nuts. If you watched the video earlier with Serbu, you know Nick does all his work with manual equipment.

    Somebody asked if the welds (seen on the AAC conversions and my F1 cans) were robotic...his answer:

    They're not. I use a 5C rotary indexer with a 3 jaw chuck that I mounted a 25 RPM DC gearmotor to, which is powered by a PWM speed control, and I use a momentary switch in my support hand to control it. So the work is rotated by electric motor, but I still hold the torch.
     
    Oneofsix likes this.