Synagogue shot up

backwoodsshooter said:
Your missing my point, not answering my question and using a lot of words to do the former 2. Not sure if you just skimmed over it or what.

Having hate for one group may or may not apply to any other.

It seems that everyone hates Jews. But not everyone hates Catholics, Mormons, black, whites, etc

What makes the hate for Jews such a common ground for hate more so that others.

I’ll repeat myself again, I get every group is gonna have some form of hate.
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I started by asking you a question, which you didn't answer. And you're complaining that I didn't answer your subsequent question?
 
J R Green said:
I wouldn't equate jewish people with pacifism. They have been successfully waging war for a couple of millennia now.
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Israelis yes. American Jews not so much. They are huge pacifists on the whole and liberals.

Every time I go to synagogue with the wife I hear the Progressive rabbis say things that are not in support or Israel and are strongly pacifist in nature and looking for peace in th Gaza Strip. They actually disagree with what the Israelis do to protect themselves.
 
Chdamn's Wife said:
My hope would be to see synagogues and temples give their congregants the permission to carry, but I know that is just wishful thinking.
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Yep, never gonna happen. Aaron Zelman, founder of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, was ostracized by many of his fellow Jews for his stance on guns.
 
backwoodsshooter said:
What makes the hate for Jews such a common ground for hate more so that others.
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Read the Bible. They are a common target because they are targeted by the evil side of the supernatural realm for being God's chosen people.

There really is no other explanation for a) the widespread hatred and persecution, but at the same time b) they have survived several times without their own territory. For nearly 2000 years this last time.
 
Chdamn said:
Israelis yes. American Jews not so much. They are huge pacifists on the whole and liberals.

Every time I go to synagogue with the wife I hear the Progressive rabbis say things that are not in support or Israel and are strongly pacifist in nature and looking for peace in the Gaza Strip. They actually disagree with what the Israelis do to protect themselves.
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That's easy to say in downtown New York. Not so much in Israel.
 
Chdamn said:
Israelis yes. American Jews not so much. They are huge pacifists on the whole and liberals.

Every time I go to synagogue with the wife I hear the Progressive rabbis say things that are not in support or Israel and are strongly pacifist in nature and looking for peace in th Gaza Strip. They actually disagree with what the Israelis do to protect themselves.
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This is a fascinating divide, and I suspect it goes back to the birth of modern day Israel and the debate between globalist and Zionist Jews, with many of the former going to western Europe and America and many of the latter going to Israel. Also, Israel is a mix of the various Jewish ethnicities. My guess is the Ashkenazi, on average even with the Zionists among them, lean more left than the other Jewish ethnicities.
 
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Not sure this was totally a I hate the Jews crime alone. I read somewhere that the shooter was upset by the efforts of the local Jewish community to bring in immigrants and refugees. I have read articles about a lot of religious organizations being paid big $$ by the Gov to help settle refugees and immigrants. I think that is what this guy was upset about. So it's possible if there was a big local Catholic group he might have shot them up. Who knows? The other thing about hating Jews is that it is easy for scum bags like this to find people that will agree with him. If you go all I hate Hungarians or something there really isn't a lot of chances to get a pat on the back or find a group of fellow wackos.
 
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JimP42 said:
Read the Bible. They are a common target because they are targeted by the evil side of the supernatural realm for being God's chosen people.

There really is no other explanation for a) the widespread hatred and persecution, but at the same time b) they have survived several times without their own territory. For nearly 2000 years this last time.
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There is a non-religious explanation, and yes, it involves genetics.
 
Getting back to the "Firearms" related subject matter, my wife and I were watching the Florida vs. Georgia game today and immediately after it was over this evening, NBC broke in with a "Breaking News" story about the pos shooter involved in this terrible event.

He evidently was armed with an AR-15 "assault" rifle based on what the bubble headed news anchor stated.:rolleyes:

Not surprising at all however.
 
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drypowder said:
There is a non-religious explanation, and yes, it involves genetics.
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Even if you rule out a religious reason, a couple Billion people or so don't. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Catholics, and more smaller groups; it's a healthy part of the global population that claims some version of a faith that stems from Abraham.
 
chiefjason said:
There are about as many reasons people hate Jews, as their are groups that hate Jews.

If they are God's chosen people, then they have a built in enemy. Satan. They have also been subject to some pretty severe Judgement from God over the years too. And that has come from their enemies mostly.

For some Christians, Jews killed Jesus. This is both accurate and wrong, but that takes a bit of explaining.

You also have the Messiah issue seperating Jews and Christians. But a lot of Christians don't seem to worry much about that, but the ones the do; really do.

Curt hit on the identity issue, which I don't really understand but vaguely and have had a couple conversations over the years with folks that believe it. Doesn't make sense to me though.

From a cultural standpoint it seems they tend to be tight nit and look out for each other. Which leads to considerable success for the groups that do that. They were incredibly successful in Germany and other parts of Europe until the lead up to WWII.

In the US you have the foreign policy/financing of Isreal angle.

And regardless of where you stand, it is a bloodline/belief system that has been around a long, long time. And suffered thorugh unimaginable conquest and attemped extermination. To survive that in any form, even as scattered as they became, makes it seem that someone is on their side.
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JimP42 said:
Read the Bible. They are a common target because they are targeted by the evil side of the supernatural realm for being God's chosen people.

There really is no other explanation for a) the widespread hatred and persecution, but at the same time b) they have survived several times without their own territory. For nearly 2000 years this last time.
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Ok just making sure I wasn’t missing something lol.

I knew they were the chosen folks because Jesus was a Jew.

Beyond that never really knew why all the hate
 
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Bunsen said:
Very sad to hear this occurred.

According to the article it appears when confronted by police the shooter did NOT surrender or suicide, but instead exchanged fire with them; injuring three SWAT officers before being wounded and arrested. Article claims "white male with a beard armed with an AR-15", but time will tell.

The political implications for a Red turning Purple state like Pa could be significant. I grew up there and it is the land of Fudds, but that is for a later discussion.
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I too grew up in Pittsburgh and my mother was from Squirrel Hill where the shooting occurred. Past history for Pa was conservative democratic with Ronnie Reagan bringing central and western Pa into the Republican camp. As hunting fades in Pennsylvania and firearms are less intertwined with the culture of the state I think we will see more acceptance of restrictive gun control there. This tragedy could very well could push them in that direction.
 
IrishCannon said:
Fortunately DJT has already come out and said this is not an issue about gun-control but of the necessity for better security at places of worship.

My buddy was shocked nobody had a firearm, but I don't think he's privvy to how leftist and anti-gun American Jews tend to be.
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I have a couple Jewish friends in S.C. They are not against the 2A, but personally they choose not to own guns themselves. It goes back to their feelings about the holocaust.
 
Meckmeister said:
I have a couple Jewish friends in S.C. They are not against the 2A, but personally they choose not to own guns themselves. It goes back to their feelings about the holocaust.
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Yeah, I don’t understand that mentality. While I am not a Holocaust survivor, I would think, if anything, it would strengthen your resolve to never let anyone strip you of your power by taking away your guns.
 
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I agree with Chdamn’s Wife, I’ll never understand why Jews are so pacifistic, at least the American breed. I can think of few “cultures” that have been targeted as many times throughout history as the Jews have. From complete enslavement to complete annihilation. With that so clearly spelled out, defenselessness seems a poor option to ensure survival. Especially when, to Jews, the Messiah will be a military leader...


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I will tell you that I belong to an Orthodox Synagogue but I am far from orthodox. As many of you know I eat pork and shellfish. Our Rabbi, president of the congregation and a bunch of board members know that I carry everyday even when I am in services. They like the Idea that someone know how to use and hand a gun there. How do they know, I have taken the Rabbi (and his kids) to the gun range along with other members of the congregation. I have made the offer to take anybody that want to learn to shoot or just have no idea about shooting to the range free of charge. So far I have taken 6 different members and about 10 waiting to go. Again, this is an orthodox congregation. Now if this was a conservative or reform congregation I think it would be a different story.

And most of the congregation are Trump supports. This is changingover time with the more observant Jews.
 
KnotRight said:
I will tell you that I belong to an Orthodox Synagogue but I am far from orthodox. As many of you know I eat pork and shellfish. Our Rabbi, president of the congregation and a bunch of board members know that I carry everyday even when I am in services. They like the Idea that someone know how to use and hand a gun there. How do they know, I have taken the Rabbi (and his kids) to the gun range along with other members of the congregation. I have made the offer to take anybody that want to learn to shoot or just have no idea about shooting to the range free of charge. So far I have taken 6 different members and about 10 waiting to go. Again, this is an orthodox congregation. Now if this was a conservative or reform congregation I think it would be a different story.

And most of the congregation are Trump supports. This is changingover time with the more observant Jews.
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Conservative jews are a harder breed but have historically been pacifists as well. Glad to hear that is changing.

The progressive synagogues are very “progressive” in political mindset as well.
 
I knew a Jewish guy that was as pro gun as could be. Actually, he was a but over the top, but he had the money to be that way. When we were once wondering if a Colt 1911 would inertia fire if dropped muzzle down, he put a primed case in his Commander and dropped it muzzle down from 3ft. on to a concrete sidewalk. (Yes, it fired.) He once answered his door with an Uzi in hand to find a sheriff's deputy there to serve a warrant. He proceeded to berate the deputy for being unprepared. "What if I had been a bad guy?" I laugh thinking about him.
 
I have a ton of Jewish friends, my moms side of the family is all Jewish and I was raised Jewish but also at times found myself at church since my dads side is Catholic. Many of my friends and family know I have guns and carry often and unless they are lying say they have no issue with it. Some have expressed interest in obtaining one for their own protection and have come to me with questions. Unfortunatly they are mostly liberal and hold the belief we need "common sense" gun laws. Most have very little knowledge about guns only to say we shouldn't have "machine guns " in our streets. They also believe that nobody is after our guns and we are just being paranoid. I have had discussions about this with them and they feel we should compromise. When I asked what their side is willing to give I get a blank stare. This is where the conversation dies. Unfortunately I do not see them coming over to our side. They are to entrenched in the Democratic Party even though most don't support Jews except when they are looking for donations. They also hate Trump. As you can imagine I try to steer clear of politics at family gatherings but if one of them want to start buzzing around the beehive I have no problem taking a baseball bat to that hive!
 
This is a great conversation we have going on it's really nice to meet ya'll so to say. I think a little more conversation helps people to understand. Sometimes we get hung up on silly stuff and don't get to listen. Glad to kind of know everyone even if not face to face.
 
Amps 13 said:
I have a ton of Jewish friends, my moms side of the family is all Jewish and I was raised Jewish but also at times found myself at church since my dads side is Catholic. Many of my friends and family know I have guns and carry often and unless they are lying say they have no issue with it. Some have expressed interest in obtaining one for their own protection and have come to me with questions. Unfortunatly they are mostly liberal and hold the belief we need "common sense" gun laws. Most have very little knowledge about guns only to say we shouldn't have "machine guns " in our streets. They also believe that nobody is after our guns and we are just being paranoid. I have had discussions about this with them and they feel we should compromise. When I asked what their side is willing to give I get a blank stare. This is where the conversation dies. Unfortunately I do not see them coming over to our side. They are to entrenched in the Democratic Party even though most don't support Jews except when they are looking for donations. They also hate Trump. As you can imagine I try to steer clear of politics at family gatherings but if one of them want to start buzzing around the beehive I have no problem taking a baseball bat to that hive!
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Jeez o pete ! WHy?!

I DO NOT understand this. Are they self-loathing jews ? - Leftists can be some of the most anti-Jew, anti-Israel people I've ever met. Obama was a very thinly-veiled Jew hater. Trump has proven to be extremely supportive, doing what every other president promised and never did (moving the embassy).

I don't get it.

Now, I don't believe supporting Israel should mean writing them a blank check to do whatever they want, but I am a supporter of them as our only sane ally in the ME. I do get irritated when they meddle in our own politics, but I certainly have no hate for them. (speaking specifically about Israeli Jews)

Now, Messianic Jews, they're my peeps.
 
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IrishCannon said:
Jeez o pete ! WHy?!

I DO NOT understand this. Are they self-loathing jews ? - Leftists can be some of the most anti-Jew, anti-Israel people I've ever met. Obama was a very thinly-veiled Jew hater. Trump has proven to be extremely supportive, doing what every other president promised and never did (moving the embassy).

I don't get it.

Now, I don't believe supporting Israel should mean writing them a blank check to do whatever they want, but I am a supporter of them as our only sane ally in the ME. I do get irritated when they meddle in our own politics, but I certainly have no hate for them. (speaking specifically about Israeli Jews)

Now, Messianic Jews, they're my peeps.
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I truly don't get it either. They were all happy about the embassy being moved and said it was about time but then turn around and say that Trump did not do it the right way, whatever the hell that means. I guess when you support people it is easy to have blinders on (this goes for both sides). I think it was pretty easy to see that Obama was no friend of Israel/Jews but they did not or would not see or admit to that. Though by the end of his presidency they were extremely silent about him.
I agree fully with you about supporting Israel and not writing a blank check to them and wish they wouldn't meddle in our politics either but kind of don't blame them after we have been caught meddling in theirs and feel that they do not fully trust anyone. It must be a hard thing to be surrounded by enemies on all sides who's only though every day is your destruction. After a little time and Wars you might become a tad paranoid..
 
IrishCannon said:
I DO NOT understand this. Are they self-loathing jews ? - Leftists can be some of the most anti-Jew, anti-Israel people I've ever met.
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This is a natural, if unintended, consequence of the Frankfurt School's Herbert Marcuse's "repressive tolerance" and the neo-marxist victim hierarchy.
 
Gun Control.jpg What I really cannot put my hands around is when someone says that they have never met a Jew. How would you know? I understand the way the Orthodox dress (the way Hollywood shows them) you would know that they are Jewish (or Amish). 99% of the people I meet really do not care what religion you are. What they care about is that you believe in a G-D and you are a good person. I write insurance and my biggest client is the largest Church is Savannah and surrounding cities and they know that I am Jewish and NEVER had any problems there.

I had a client that lived in a very small town and when I was visiting with them they had their father (mid-85s back about 10 years ago) with them. When he found out that my Grandparents owned a dry-goods store in the next town over he looked at me and said, “you are a Jew”? I said yes and continued. The son-in-law came to me afterwards and said that he was sorry for the comment. My reply was “sometimes you have to consider the source of the comment”. I did not mean the in a bad way but he lived a sheltered life outside of a small town for all his life and most likely never travel more that 50 miles away.
 
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Cowboy said:
I always ask this question and have never got a good answer. But why does anyone in America hate Jews? I get the muslim long standing religious hate but why anyone else.
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I'm a little baffled by this, that you accept hatred of one religious minority, but not others?
 
The shooter posted on Gab (a Twitter alternative), and in the wake of this shooting, apparently Gab's hosting provider pulled the plug. Fortunately it seems like they have found another hosting service (but is running much slower), though no doubt there will be calls to shut it down. Twitter of course has no shortage of people hating on and calling for the "end of white people", but no one is going to deplatform them.

This goes to the point I made earlier - suppressing an idea does not magically make the idea go away, it just forces the idea underground, where it can fester without the ability for others to debate and potentially debunk the idea. The suppression also servers to strengthen adherents' conviction in the idea - after all, it can be argued, if the idea is false, why does it need to be suppressed? We wouldn't, for example, deplatform or attempt to silence someone who claims the sky is green. Rather we allow that person to make his/her claim, and allow others to debunk it, and then let observers to the debate come to their own conclusion. With suppression, there is no one to debate and no one to observe, there are only people who themselves subscribe to the same idea.

I think all Americans should stand for the free exchange of ideas - this is the best method we have for killing bad ideas and elevating good ideas. But this is a pipe dream, and we are moving away from the free exchange of ideas and toward the ghettoization of politically incorrect ideas. This is a recipe for conflict.
 
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Meckmeister said:
I have a couple Jewish friends in S.C. They are not against the 2A, but personally they choose not to own guns themselves. It goes back to their feelings about the holocaust.
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Perhaps if the Jews had been armed, there would not have been a holocaust.

Terry
 
drypowder said:
The shooter posted on Gab (a Twitter alternative), and in the wake of this shooting, apparently Gab's hosting provider pulled the plug. Fortunately it seems like they have found another hosting service (but is running much slower), though no doubt there will be calls to shut it down. Twitter of course has no shortage of people hating on and calling for the "end of white people", but no one is going to deplatform them.

This goes to the point I made earlier - suppressing an idea does not magically make the idea go away, it just forces the idea underground, where it can fester without the ability for others to debate and potentially debunk the idea. The suppression also servers to strengthen adherents' conviction in the idea - after all, it can be argued, if the idea is false, why does it need to be suppressed? We wouldn't, for example, deplatform or attempt to silence someone who claims the sky is green. Rather we allow that person to make his/her claim, and allow others to debunk it, and then let observers to the debate come to their own conclusion. With suppression, there is no one to debate and no one to observe, there are only people who themselves subscribe to the same idea.

I think all Americans should stand for the free exchange of ideas - this is the best method we have for killing bad ideas and elevating good ideas. But this is a pipe dream, and we are moving away from the free exchange of ideas and toward the ghettoization of politically incorrect ideas. This is a recipe for conflict.
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Excellent post. One problem is certain people are not supposed to call out bad ideas even when the medium is public.
 
Against my better judgment, I listened to NPR this morning. They are doing their best to spin the shooting as Trump’s fault and that the policital right is to blame for all the “hate”, division, and “inflammatory rhetoric” that is going on. They made one pass at lip service to the left’s in your face protests during the Kavanaugh aftermath, but never mentioned Antifa and how their violence started before Trump was even elected.

They are also spinning the “hate” as making things harder on the “immigrant” community (by which they mean illegal immigrants). They aren’t even calling them undocumented anymore. They called out people looking into the groups who are finding the caravan as conspiracy theorists. The doublespeak and propaganda was on full display, complete with their faked sympathy and oily condescension.
 
Sas quatch said:
I'm a little baffled by this, that you accept hatred of one religious minority, but not others?
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My thought about Muslims and Jews was simply that it was at least a millennia old feud that is still being fought over today in the middle east. I get that part but I don't understand why people have problems with the American Jews in today's society. Same as I don't understand the Holocaust or why it happened. For me it is pure ignorance on the entire subject because I grew up in an isolate section of the mountains of WV.
I am the same way with Jews as I am with other minorities. There were three black kids in my high school of 1200 people all in different grades than I was in so I was friendly with them but not friends. I never even thought of them as being different. The "it" girl in school was mixed and I never noticed it until I was looking at my year book something like 20 years after graduation. I grew up in a Mormon household so religion was not a huge topic. I always thought church was church until I came to the south after college. So until I came down here I can honestly say I never knowingly met a Jew, Jehovah witness and several of the religious minorities that inhabit our great country. I saw my first Hindu temple in kannapolis and my first house of prayer in statesville. I still could not tell you were the closest Jewish temple would be to my location.
 
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Sas quatch said:
I'm a little baffled by this, that you accept hatred of one religious minority, but not others?
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I’m not baffled by it at all. And Islam is far from a religion and far from a minority. It is one of the largest groups in the world.

I can’t speak for cowboy but for me Islam is a political ideology disguised as a religion. It preaches hatred and the subjugation of anyone who is not Muslim.
 
Sas quatch said:
I'm a little baffled by this, that you accept hatred of one religious minority, but not others?
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I don't think that anyone of the Jewish faith has flown any planes into any buildings.that and the fact that some of the mosque have been investigated for trying to funnel money and other supplies to isis make people wary of people of the Muslim faith,
 
specops56 said:
Perhaps if the Jews had been armed, there would not have been a holocaust.

Terry
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The reason the Jews weren't armed is because Hitler made private ownership of firearms illegal for Jews (see the private weapons act of 1938), it's one of the points of our own 2a battles
 
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