The Demise of Harley Davidson

I believe that half their dealer network will have to close in the future. $40k+ motorcycle buyers are dying every day. The dealers that will survive will have to sell more than HD'S. HD can't live under a rock anymore hope the buyers will show up or any other motorcycle manufacturer for that matter.

The biggest problem I see is 90% of all riders are 37 to 70 years old with all brands.
 
I love the F9 vids, but havent watched this one...yet.
Thanks for reminding me to check it out
 
I've had Harley's..long time ago.
Never was a huge fan of the 100 year old motor, but more distasteful was the way Harley treats it's customers. The take it or leave it/we don't need you pricing, (including the $30 t-shirts), shipping in-demand models to Europe and wanting core-base Americans to wait a year for theirs, and most especially..I've never heard a customer give any kind of positive review of any of their service departments in any dealership in the country. The horror stories related to their service departments are widely documented, and Harleys are not the most reliable bike ever made, hence the need for service all the time and the opportunity for a bunch of negative feedback.

Harley has tried to diversify it's product in some fashion for quite some time. Buell, VRod, that new XR750...but everything Harley does outside of the air-cooled-pushrod- single-crank-pin-cruiser-chopper-bobber is chastised by the market Harley itself developed; The Bad Ass rider. Within the Harley crowd, if you show up on any model Harley that does not resemble a giant hulking cruiser leviathan of a bike that shakes uncontrollably, you're mocked and sneered. Entry level/new Harley riders buy a Harley largely because they want to partake in the Harley lifestyle. It sure as hell ain't because HD had the best performer in the class. But show up at bike week on a VRod, or even a sportster, and be prepared to be spit on. Not from guys riding other brands, but from the Harley crowd itself.

Harley has been given every chance in the world. Teachers pet. Back-door deals that kept Indian away from government contracts, Tariff's on all competition, import restrictions, and hell..the AMA has developed many Harley-only racing classes to showcase the product (we won't talk about how this was necessary since Harley could never run with the competition), even though they garnered little attention because they aren't giant leviathan bikes and the bad ass rider could care less. The only success HD has with racing is at the drag strip, and even then the other brands were neutered so as to 'level the playing field'. Translate; bring the competition down to the lowest common denominator.

Harley will not go out of business, but they dug a hole so deep with marketing that I don't know if they'll ever be able to get out of it. The attraction of the bad ass rider is fading, and now-a-days folks are turning their heads to the big 4 as well as the euro bikes. All of whom use state of the art technology, offer a bazillion different models, along with an America-first approach to sales and a plethora of professional service departments happy to help.
And now, you have new players that are aggressively coming at the world market, most notably India and China, and Indian is coming on strong once again taking large bites out of HD.

At least Harley still has strong sales in the clothing and sticker line. How long? Don't know, but you don't see lots of young guys sporting Harley propaganda. They don't seem to be attracted to their father's oldsmobile anymore.
 
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What, again? A bud who rides said current gen whatever dont ride and foreign bikes are thousands less. I dont ride and one of the reasons is every person, acquaintance, friend, etc I know who rides has been seriously injured doing so. One bud's never been hurt riding but his effing bike fell on him. I used to love to ride my childhood friends bikes, go karts and dune buggys but never got the bug to own one.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
What, again? A bud who rides said current gen whatever dont ride and foreign bikes are thousands less. I dont ride and one of the reasons is every person, acquaintance, friend, etc I know who rides has been seriously injured doing so. One bud's never been hurt riding but his effing bike fell on him. I used to love to ride my childhood friends bikes, go karts and dune buggys but never got the bug to own one.
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If anyone you know has been seriously injured in a car crash do you not ride in cars either?
 
I wish someone made repro kits for the old V twin classics. There used to be one for a ’47 knuckelhead, but I don’t know that it was any good.
 
SPST said:
If anyone you know has been seriously injured in a car crash do you not ride in cars either?
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I think the difference is that in a car something that would be a mild fender bender can be a completely life changing accident on a motorcycle. And the percentage of people I know who have died in a car accident v the amount of people I know actually drive in cars is minute...though the amount of people I know who have died/maimed on a motorcycle v the amount of people i know who ride is by magnitudes higher.
 
fieldgrade said:
I wish someone made repro kits for the old V twin classics. There used to be one for a ’47 knuckelhead, but I don’t know that it was any good.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Harley has history and a sound that sells. Going retro may not keep a mass of stockholders happy but there is enough demand for a downsized company to have a successful future selling exact copies of years past.
 
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OldNascar said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. Harley has history and a sound that sells. Going retro may not keep a mass of stockholders happy but there is enough demand for a downsized company to have a successful future selling exact copies of years past.
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I don't think so. The average age of motorcycle riders keeps going up. Most that want something as old as a Knucklehead are too old to even hold up a bike anymore. HD has shot themselves in the foot with their once genius marketing strategy.
 
B00ger said:
I think the difference is that in a car something that would be a mild fender bender can be a completely life changing accident on a motorcycle. And the percentage of people I know who have died in a car accident v the amount of people I know actually drive in cars is minute...though the amount of people I know who have died/maimed on a motorcycle v the amount of people i know who ride is by magnitudes higher.
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I always hear the, "you're going to get killed", "everyone I know gets hurt on those things". I must be hanging around with the wrong motorcycle crowd because the guys that I associate with in the motorcycle world have put hundreds of thousands of miles over many, many years and are still alive and riding. Real experienced riders are a bit different than the weekend warriors that have 10 year old bikes with 5k miles on them. It's like shooting. If you don't do it very often your skills suffer.
 
I was thinking more of an aftermarket third party company. Just like Factory Five (and others) build repro Cobra kits. I wish someone did that for old HD’s and Indians, but it’s one thing to fab and paint a frame, another to build a reliable reproduction of an engine that was engineered 80 years ago. It would likely be wildly expensive if it was any good.
 
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SPST said:
I always hear the, "you're going to get killed", "everyone I know gets hurt on those things". I must be hanging around with the wrong motorcycle crowd because the guys that I associate with in the motorcycle world have put hundreds of thousands of miles over many, many years and are still alive and riding. Real experienced riders are a bit different than the weekend warriors that have 10 year old bikes with 5k miles on them. It's like shooting. If you don't do it very often your skills suffer.
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14% of traffic fatalities are motorcycles. I still like them and support riders. Not trying to argue that experienced riders go decades without an incident. Looking into those fatality stats even show the accident is usually caused by someone else.


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fieldgrade said:
I was thinking more of an aftermarket third party company. Just like Factory Five (and others) build repro Cobra kits. I wish someone did that for old HD’s and Indians, but it’s one thing to fab and paint a frame, another to build a reliable reproduction of an engine that was engineered 80 years ago. It would likely be wildly expensive if it was any good.
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And a dwindling market to sell it to.
 
All Harleys are retro copies of 100 year old bikes. They have been resting on their "history" laurels for too long and thats why they always have problems. The generations that appreciate that are dying off.
The new electric bike, which is apparently awesome and will be soundly ridiculed by anybody who would actually buy a Harley, is the only interesting thing they have done since Buell, which they tried and tried to make fail and eventually succeeded, lol.
As @Friday noted, less and less people are wanting to dress up as a pirate and parade around on an overpriced outdated boomer anachronism.
I personally like all bikes, and would enjoy riding Harleys, too. I like them. But, there are just so many thing I would choose first. Just my opinion.
 
B00ger said:
14% of traffic fatalities are motorcycles. I still like them and support riders. Not trying to argue that experienced riders go decades without an incident. Looking into those fatality stats even show the accident is usually caused by someone else.


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I don't know if there has been a study based on miles of experience but it would be interesting to see. I came up studying the Hurt Repot from the early '80's. Much of that report still holds true today.
 
Rant. alert:
Man, after hundreds of thousands of miles of this passion I have for motorcycles dating back to the early 70's, it never ceases to amaze me how some dipshit that doesn't even ride feels compelled to educate us riders on riding motorcycles. How their "brother friends uncles son" KILLED HIMSELF on a motorcycle. "Lost his leg" etc. Why do they feel obligated to do this? It's idiotic.

That is why we like it. Because it is dangerous and hard to do well. The consequences of lack of skill and knowledge can be fatal. Like skydiving. We know, we've all lost close friends, etc. We've watched people better than us eat dirt. Die. Get effed up. Many times. We've heard all the stories. We know all the stats. We know more than you EVER WILL.

SO, STFU, LOL.
 
SPST said:
And a dwindling market to sell it to.
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I think this is biggest driver. How many kids or younger generation do we really know today that still like to get out wrench on cars/motorcycles and tinker on things or go fast other than plug a computer into it. Most i see if its not on a computer they are scared of it or don’t want to touch it.
 
NKD said:
Rant. alert:
Man, after hundreds of thousands of miles of this passion I have for motorcycles dating back to the early 70's, it never ceases to amaze me how some dipshit that doesn't even ride feels compelled to educate us riders on riding motorcycles. How their "brother friends uncles son" KILLED HIMSELF on a motorcycle. "Lost his leg" etc. Why do they feel obligated to do this? It's idiotic.

That is why we like it. Because it is dangerous and hard to do well. The consequences of lack of skill and knowledge can be fatal. Like skydiving. We know, we've all lost close friends, etc. We've watched people better than us eat dirt. Die. Get effed up. Many times. We've heard all the stories. We know all the stats. We know more than you EVER WILL.

SO, STFU, LOL.
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Not sure anyone here is trying to educate anyone on anything. You actually just kinda supported what has been said. They are dangerous, so people who don’t really want to get involved with it for that reason have a point. No one is trying to convince anyone not to ride, just that to some the inherent risks aren’t worth it to them.


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SPST said:
I don't think so. The average age of motorcycle riders keeps going up. Most that want something as old as a Knucklehead are too old to even hold up a bike anymore. HD has shot themselves in the foot with their once genius marketing strategy.
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There is a possible niche market that no major maker has ventured into, even a copy of single cylinder pedal bike might sell like hotcakes. Plenty of city dwellers looking for a bike with a cool look and the name to go with it. The possibilities are endless with number of models Harley made through the years. High tech only goes so far in the image concious world of motor bikes. Build it cheap enough for the everyday rider and watch Harley's image defeat the best the world has to offer; that and a generous account with all of the bike magazines.
 
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That was a good vid, and informative.

I bought my one and only HD new in 1985, when a full sized Low Rider (not a bagger or dresser) listed for $8500 and could easily be bought for $7500, and the Evolution engine had just come out which made riding a stock shovel-head (as GREAT as they sound) seem like riding a minibike.
 
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@SPST Let it go man. We get it. You have a huge distaste for Harley Davidson. You make it clear quite often. As I've said before, since you know everything they're doing wrong maybe you should go to work for them and turn it around.
Maybe you're due for an Iron Butt ride to clear your head?
#Honyamasukirules!
 
fieldgrade said:
I was thinking more of an aftermarket third party company. Just like Factory Five (and others) build repro Cobra kits. I wish someone did that for old HD’s and Indians, but it’s one thing to fab and paint a frame, another to build a reliable reproduction of an engine that was engineered 80 years ago. It would likely be wildly expensive if it was any good.
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There's a company, I believe in NZ, doin' re-pops of old Indians, but they are $$$. S&S does Knuckle, Pan & Shovel motors, but yer lookin' at $7500 for a Shovel & close to $10K for the Knuck.
 
agree with points above:

1. the demographic is dying by age or accident.
2. loud is a loser marketing strategy.
3. price and performance is poor.
 
Crazy Carl said:
close to $10K for the Knuck.
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Like the price of a Ford crate engine for a hotrod, or kit car.

That said, I’m gonna look into that. Thanks for the post.
 
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Well ain’t this the bomb!

Thanks @LizardKing
https://www.sscycle.com/products/kn93-complete-assembled-engine/

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LizardKing said:
@SPST Let it go man. We get it. You have a huge distaste for Harley Davidson. You make it clear quite often. As I've said before, since you know everything they're doing wrong maybe you should go to work for them and turn it around.
Maybe you're due for an Iron Butt ride to clear your head?
#Honyamasukirules!
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I am due for a ride to clear my head. You sound like a sensitive Harley guy. I'm sorry if I hurt your feels.
 
LizardKing said:
@SPST Let it go man. We get it. You have a huge distaste for Harley Davidson. You make it clear quite often. As I've said before, since you know everything they're doing wrong maybe you should go to work for them and turn it around.
Maybe you're due for an Iron Butt ride to clear your head?
#Honyamasukirules!
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He has a point. They have priced themselves out of the market. When you price things to where only older guys can buy something then the young guys will end up with other brand bikes that typically outperform Harleys. Once they get a taste of that they most likely won't come back to a harley. As others have said, the age of riders is going up across the world. I believe that is due to the image as well as parents telling kids it's dangerous.
 
I've known several people who got banged up on bikes but none of them were at fault. It's people like me who will run you over in our two ton plus vehicles that are at fault. I'm scared to drive a full size truck out there! There's no way I'm getting on a bike!
But I have to admit there is something about a Harley. Several years ago some friends rode their HD's down to my place on the coast. I could hear them coming for what seemed like miles away. When they pulled into my street the neighbors locked their doors and peaked out the curtains. It was great! Little did they know that they were housewives and accountant types on those infernal machines. :D
 
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