War in Ukraine (World War III)
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ronn47
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Meckmeister
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History shows that Soviet/ Russian border aggression goes back 60-70 years in the modern era. What is tell tale is that when the US and its allies get bogged down in international conflicts, i.e. Vietnam, the Soviets did things like jumping into the Castro-Cuba-US standoff and invading Czech a few years later. They have been fighting with the Chechians, provided nuclear technology to the Ayatollahs, got involved in Syria while we had our hands full in Iraq/Afghan. This is just another chapter added to Russia testing the US resolve of being a super-power. Of course Putin would like Russia to reclaim some of their old standing, although their economy won't support anything but some artillery attacks and maybe assasinations of political leaders inside Ukraine.
What folks should keep an eye on, and it's been talked about here a lot, is how does China take advantage of the US standoff with Putin. An Army vet I talked to yesterday, thinks China is eyeing a tactical move against Japan while we're least expecting it. That is problematic because our leaders have an untimely admiration of the leaders in Beijing.
What folks should keep an eye on, and it's been talked about here a lot, is how does China take advantage of the US standoff with Putin. An Army vet I talked to yesterday, thinks China is eyeing a tactical move against Japan while we're least expecting it. That is problematic because our leaders have an untimely admiration of the leaders in Beijing.
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The Olympics do end 2/20/22….& it’s looking like Putin is setting up to invade Ukraine per the resident in the White House…batten down the hatches folks it could get ugly
This whole deal isn't looking good. I have two ideas on how this will go.
1- Putin takes some land, flexes and sets the stage for another push in 5 years.
#fjb does nothing but postures, maybe some sanctions.
Gas goes up to $5/gal.
2- Putin pushes fast and far, overruns Ukraine, the public panics and runs.
#fjb gets us into a big war.
China moves to take Taiwan by force.
Weakness and hesitation gets us into a big war on two fronts.
Lots of people die.
Gas becomes unobtainium.
Just my thoughts, hope I'm wrong.
1- Putin takes some land, flexes and sets the stage for another push in 5 years.
#fjb does nothing but postures, maybe some sanctions.
Gas goes up to $5/gal.
2- Putin pushes fast and far, overruns Ukraine, the public panics and runs.
#fjb gets us into a big war.
China moves to take Taiwan by force.
Weakness and hesitation gets us into a big war on two fronts.
Lots of people die.
Gas becomes unobtainium.
Just my thoughts, hope I'm wrong.
I never ask my son about the military stuff other than what country he is in. He made it clear to my wife he will not be talking about it. I do know he is close to the Lithuania border with Belarus where according to the news Russia has staged thousands of troops. He is no longer in training mode in the Balkan countries and has been extended 2 to 3 more months in deployment minimum. Cancelled our family vacation in the Spring and the daughter in law and grandkids are coming here after the pre school year ends. The other soldiers I keep up with at different bases are not talking about their base plans if they are even in the know.
Something smells fishy if he is no longer training new NATO countries yet has been extended. I’ll guess it’s a sit and wait. Unlike Afganistan Russia has missiles staged along the border of Ukraine and in Belarus. Casualties could come quick and big numbers. If we are relying on K. Harris to represent us in talks we are up shit creek.
Something smells fishy if he is no longer training new NATO countries yet has been extended. I’ll guess it’s a sit and wait. Unlike Afganistan Russia has missiles staged along the border of Ukraine and in Belarus. Casualties could come quick and big numbers. If we are relying on K. Harris to represent us in talks we are up shit creek.
I am torn on this one. As some may not know, when the Soviet Union collapsed the West made a deal with Russia and gave assurances that there would not be an eastward expansion of Nato in exchange for collecting and securing the Soviet Nukes. Now more than half a dozen former Eastern States have joined Nato and the Ukraine as an immediate neighbor to Russia wants in as well. That does not make annexing territory right but I can see why Russia feels pushed against the wall and played by the West.
It’s a lot like the Cuban missile crisis in reverse. Russia doesn’t want US/Nato near Moscow. I can’t blame them on that aspect. It’s all a big mess for sure. We are being projected as weak with Corn Pop in office and well, we are weak
Chuckman
Senior Member
Same with Turkey having US nukes and them putting nukes in Cuba. I never really understood why we felt moral and ignoration for them putting nuclear weapons in Cuba when we had them in Turkey and Western Europe.
Chuckman
Senior Member
Japan? Entire world cut China off at the knees if they did that. At least they have some historical connection with Taiwan.
The propaganda drumbeat reminds me of Iraq.
Ukrainians don't seem as concerned as our gov is:
https://news.antiwar.com/2022/02/18/ukraine-dm-low-probability-of-major-escalation-with-russia/
Ukrainians don't seem as concerned as our gov is:
https://news.antiwar.com/2022/02/18/ukraine-dm-low-probability-of-major-escalation-with-russia/
It’s not like they still don’t have a nuclear submarine parked off our eastern coast anyways. I guess it just makes it easier for the politicians that it is submerged. We have our SSBN boats doing the same.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, we should have allowed the then-new Russia to join NATO and present a united front to China. But, no, we had to maintain an enemy to the immediate east of Europe to justify military spending.
OP
LTC Don
Well-Known Member
Moscow's 'Baghdad Bob'?
news.sky.com
'Moscow Misha'?
Ukraine crisis: Russian diplomat accuses Western leaders of 'scaremongering' - as he mocks UK intelligence
Western leaders continue to warn of an imminent invasion of Ukraine by Russia as about 150,000 troops gather at the border but Moscow says it is just carrying out military exercises.
news.sky.com
'Moscow Misha'?
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The Evil and Malevolence of the Pentagon’s Brilliant Strategy in Ukraine - LewRockwell
The crisis in Ukraine demonstrates the sheer brilliance of Pentagon strategists. Yes, granted, it’s an evil and malevolent strategy, but nonetheless one cannot help but admire it for its sheer ingenuity. The strategy has involved maneuvering Russia into having to make a choice between two...
www.lewrockwell.com
“We” are not the good guys. Let that sink in.
Nope we sure ain’t. We can be the neutral guys by minding our own business but we won’t. Ukraine is not a NATO nation. They had their chance to do so and never did so it’s too late now that Putin is knocking at the border. We are stirring a hornets nest or poking the bear on this one. When we get stung or we get bitten it’s no one but our leaders own fault. Sadly the ones causing this issue will never be the ones to face the consequencesThe Evil and Malevolence of the Pentagon’s Brilliant Strategy in Ukraine - LewRockwell
The crisis in Ukraine demonstrates the sheer brilliance of Pentagon strategists. Yes, granted, it’s an evil and malevolent strategy, but nonetheless one cannot help but admire it for its sheer ingenuity. The strategy has involved maneuvering Russia into having to make a choice between two...
“We” are not the good guys. Let that sink in.
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OP
LTC Don
Well-Known Member
Spectrum news was repeating this about 5pm or so.
Not likely with the coward in chief we have right now.
Aardvark
Identifies as okie-dokie
The Cheneys and HRC et.al. want a war because it's all about the Benjamins. Dems and MSM need a distraction from the abysmal headlines on everything else they've screwed up. There's been a border skirmish in Eastern Ukraine for almost a decade. Artillery landing semi-randomly is nothing new there.
Putin's understandably left the periodically scheduled practice-maneuver troops in place a little longer than scheduled since MSM, Biden Admin and other assorted lunatics are egging-on an opportuistic war. I don't see any evidence Ukraine even wants to be a part of NATO, and Putin understandably would prefer they not be.
Incompetent morons, arms-merchants and self-serving Swampers may screw around and start something that nobody sane wanted started, especially Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky. I hope it's all just political theater in the end, but who knows. The only certain thing, IMO, is if pols and MSM say it, it's a lie.
...And don't forget ten percent for The Big Guy.
Putin's understandably left the periodically scheduled practice-maneuver troops in place a little longer than scheduled since MSM, Biden Admin and other assorted lunatics are egging-on an opportuistic war. I don't see any evidence Ukraine even wants to be a part of NATO, and Putin understandably would prefer they not be.
Incompetent morons, arms-merchants and self-serving Swampers may screw around and start something that nobody sane wanted started, especially Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky. I hope it's all just political theater in the end, but who knows. The only certain thing, IMO, is if pols and MSM say it, it's a lie.
...And don't forget ten percent for The Big Guy.
Aardvark
Identifies as okie-dokie
I'm delighted to say the only thing from Olympics 2022 that pierced my bubble is that "Russian-doping dust-up" may get added to "death and taxes" on the list of life's only certainties.
Simple Man
Well-Known Member
I've thought all along that this whole Ukraine situation is just a trap for us. The goal is to take us down. The CIA is too busy making woke videos about people that aren't white and heterosexual while highlighting their anxiety disorders in an attempt to recruit a new generation of losers who will do a terrible job, rather than recruit real serious people that aren't asking what their country can do for them. Who trusts a damn thing the military and intelligence advisors say? Have they gotten anything right in the past year? Austin and Milley are the most disastrous combination of incompetent losers to ever represent the military. No one is taking our country serious, unless they happen to be on the business end of SOCOM's rifles. But there is only so much we can do. Our politicians insist on failure as an outcome.
I'm telling you, Joe is going to appease our enemies and make them stronger or he is going to miscalculate our enemies intentions, capabilities and motivations and they will act. But hey, at least he gave Putin a list of targets in our country not to target with cyber attacks anymore. I wonder if Joe CC'd that list to China? I have a bad feeling about this week. I hope it is uneventful.
I'm telling you, Joe is going to appease our enemies and make them stronger or he is going to miscalculate our enemies intentions, capabilities and motivations and they will act. But hey, at least he gave Putin a list of targets in our country not to target with cyber attacks anymore. I wonder if Joe CC'd that list to China? I have a bad feeling about this week. I hope it is uneventful.
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Interesting article, but I'm not buying the part about Roosevelt's Japanese oil blockade being used as an excuse to get the US into the European war. That is a non-sequitur, it makes no sense. The article does make some very good points about the US foreign policy establishment and how they use "Russia bad" as an excuse to keep their funding intact, and Biden has been part of the Washington establishment so long he (or his puppeteers) they actually believe this is how things are supposed to be.The Evil and Malevolence of the Pentagon’s Brilliant Strategy in Ukraine - LewRockwell
The crisis in Ukraine demonstrates the sheer brilliance of Pentagon strategists. Yes, granted, it’s an evil and malevolent strategy, but nonetheless one cannot help but admire it for its sheer ingenuity. The strategy has involved maneuvering Russia into having to make a choice between two...
“We” are not the good guys. Let that sink in.
I ran across this on another site and I think this is pretty close to the truth.
Richard Weyand
All this talk about Russia and Ukraine drives me nuts. 'What's Putin going to do?' everyone asks.
Nobody mentions any history. So let's fix that, shall we?
In the 1600s and 1700s, the Khanate of Crimea, nominally part of Turkey, was raiding Russian villages for blond-haired, blue-eyed sex slaves. As a result of the Russian-Turkish War, Russia annexed Crimea and cleaned out the slave trade. That was in 1783. They built a naval base there, and established a city, Sevastopol, to service the naval base.
Yes, Russian ownership of Crimea is older than the U.S. Constitution.
Sevastopol is also the only reliably ice-free naval base the Russians have that is contiguous to Russia. As late as 1953, Crimea was part of the Russian RSFS of the Soviet Union. See map below from 1949.
In 1953, Stalin died. He had starved Ukraine when a Ukraine separatist movement became troublesome, killing millions. Khrushchev, who grew up in Ukraine, transferred control of Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR, a part of the USSR, as a peace offering in 1954. This was an administrative change, like making the UP of Michigan part of Wisconsin. Still part of the USSR, so who cares.
When the USSR came apart in 1991, Ukraine left and took Crimea with it. Now remember, it is the only reliably ice-free port the Russian Navy has that is contiguous to Russia. But Ukraine was a Russian puppet state, so no problem.
Then the Orange Revolution in Ukraine put in place a pro-Western government. It has been alleged the CIA helped foment and support this revolt. We started making noises then about making Ukraine a member of NATO, a military alliance specifically aimed at fighting the USSR if it ever came to blows over there.
Russia's only ice-free naval base going to NATO? Putin said "Uh, no," and annexed Crimea back to Russia. Big surprise, huh? Nope. I saw it coming. When the Orange Revolution succeeded, the first thing I said was, "What about Crimea? That's going to be serious trouble."
All Ukraine has to do to have peace with Russia is cede Crimea back to Russia where it belongs. The people living in Crimea are not Ukrainians. They are Russians. If Ukraine officially gave Crimea back to Russia (like someone's fiance giving the ring back when they break off the relationship), and guaranteed access, there would be no problem.
We should propose it, but we won't. The CIA and all the foreign policy establishment are all Russia experts. They all speak Russian. They have no chops for managing conflict with China, so they have to keep fomenting conflict with Russia to keep their nice cushy jobs.
And the Ukrainian government, under CIA influence, is being little bitches about it. Russia will never give up Crimea. And if Ukraine insists, they're going to keep getting curb-stomped by the Bear.
The stupidest thing is that nobody cares except the government people. The Ukrainian citizens don't care about Crimea. It's a bunch of Russians living there, not Ukrainians.That's what's really going on between Ukraine and Russia, and nobody talks about it. It's all "Putin bad" bullshit.
(me) Let the damn Russians have Crimea, quit making noises about expanding NATO into Ukraine and stay the hell out of other people's business.
Bingo. The Russians consider this to be a vital national interest and to them it is worth fighting for. Just like we would have gone to war over missiles in Cuba.
There's nothing like a bureaucracy fighting for its own survival.
Damn good info in this post. You provide the whole US with this info and it proves the government and media has been pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes for a long time. The military machine needs villains to feed the kingdom building. Without villains there are fewer promotions and for certain no need for more funding.
I think this would have been the smart move, but for some reason, everyone I share this with thinks I am insane.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Chuckman
Senior Member
In the 1980s there was a plethora of Russian studies programs in universities, and learning Russian was the big thing. Hell, I did it, at ECU.
Then the Soviet Union collapsed and we had all these experts who could speak Russian and no one needed them anymore.
But Chinese has been a significant language need for the US since the 1920s, but the need has waxed and wanted. It really took off in the '70s when Nixon established relationship with China. There are a metric crap ton of people in foreign service and for most of the government and in the military who can speak Chinese. That has always been a Priority.
Then the Soviet Union collapsed and we had all these experts who could speak Russian and no one needed them anymore.
But Chinese has been a significant language need for the US since the 1920s, but the need has waxed and wanted. It really took off in the '70s when Nixon established relationship with China. There are a metric crap ton of people in foreign service and for most of the government and in the military who can speak Chinese. That has always been a Priority.
Apparently Putin is signing the decree recognizing those two regions as their own nations and thus allowing them to get help from Russia. This is going down a rough path. Ukraine is saying not gonna happen, Putin said watch this and signed the decree.
Chuckman
Senior Member
Not for everyone. They are halting in some areas to keep spending in others. SOCOM is still active, and the Navy and Marines are finishing up a major exercise in the Pacific, Navy ship deployments are on schedule. But yeah, inflation is beating the crap out of the budget, especially the consumables like POL and food.
The Donesk And Luhansk “states” are only occupying about half of their “state” and I would venture a bet, Russia goes into their area and helps push the Ukrainian army out of their area and when the army of Ukraine fights back, they will declare War on Ukraine and commence to taking in the whole thing
At this stage, it's not our circus and not our monkeys. We really need to stay out of it, but no. Thank you, oh great Star Chamber for your illustrious wisdom and benevolence.
