What 450 Bushmaster Heavy Bullet Mould?

Get Off My Lawn

Get Off My Lawn

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I haven’t cast boolits, so I’m a complete noob here.
I’m looking for something ~500g for subsonics, or the heaviest round that will stabilize in a 1/16 suppressed bolt gun. I can find .458 all day long, the heaviest I’ve seen .452 is one 300g pistol boolit.
Where do you suggest I start?
Thanks!
@Michael458
 
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Get Off My Lawn said:
I haven’t cast boolits, so I’m a complete noob here.
I’m looking for something ~500g for subsonics, or the heaviest round that will stabilize in a 1/16 suppressed bolt gun. I can find .458 all day long, the heaviest I’ve seen .452 is one 300g pistol boolit.
Where do you suggest I start?
Thanks!
@Michael458
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I cannot answer that, but you could give Al a call at Noe bullet molds and get probably could hook you up. Excellent customer service at Noe
 
At the risk of having some devoted Casters not happy with me, my apologies, but with many good cast bullets available I can't see wasting the time casting. Now Casters, don't get me wrong Casting can be very fulfilling and part of the big picture for many of you, its just not for me. Yes, I have done it, but it has been many many years ago..........

Ok @Get Off My Lawn answer me this, at SubSonic velocity exactly why do you want a such a heavy bullet? Either in .458 or .452? If you say penetration, if that is your answer, and you are talking deer/pigs and such, then you don't need any more penetration than what a 300 gr flat nose cast bullet can do at 1000 fps. A 300 gr FN Cast will blow through broadside, rear to front or severe angle of any deer or pig or even bear you might shoot at SubSonic. Since buffalo and elephant are probably off the list, then I am confused as to why you need heavier bullets?

Indeed if you are able to find the bolt gun of choice, in .452 caliber, honestly I believe a FN 300 will do anything you ask of it at SubSonic velocity.

Make life easy on yourself, and start with the 300s and see what you get.........

I was in Zimbabwe many years ago. I shot a really big Sable with 400 gr Swift A Frame in 458 Winchester. The animal dropped to the shot on the spot, but was still doing some wiggling when I walked up. In those days I was carrying a tiny little 5 shot Taurus in 45 Colt, it was loaded with standard loads of 250 Cast FN with 8 gr Unique. In the little Taurus 2 inch gun, velocity was 700 fps. I finished the Sable with a round direct frontal in the chest. Later digging the bullet out, it had traveled over 3 feet of Sable at 700 fps.

I don't know, maybe I am missing something else or another objective, but I would start with 300s at Subsonic and see what happens.........
 
Michael458 said:
At the risk of having some devoted Casters not happy with me, my apologies, but with many good cast bullets available I can't see wasting the time casting. Now Casters, don't get me wrong Casting can be very fulfilling and part of the big picture for many of you, its just not for me. Yes, I have done it, but it has been many many years ago..........

Ok @Get Off My Lawn answer me this, at SubSonic velocity exactly why do you want a such a heavy bullet? Either in .458 or .452? If you say penetration, if that is your answer, and you are talking deer/pigs and such, then you don't need any more penetration than what a 300 gr flat nose cast bullet can do at 1000 fps. A 300 gr FN Cast will blow through broadside, rear to front or severe angle of any deer or pig or even bear you might shoot at SubSonic. Since buffalo and elephant are probably off the list, then I am confused as to why you need heavier bullets?

Indeed if you are able to find the bolt gun of choice, in .452 caliber, honestly I believe a FN 300 will do anything you ask of it at SubSonic velocity.

Make life easy on yourself, and start with the 300s and see what you get.........

I was in Zimbabwe many years ago. I shot a really big Sable with 400 gr Swift A Frame in 458 Winchester. The animal dropped to the shot on the spot, but was still doing some wiggling when I walked up. In those days I was carrying a tiny little 5 shot Taurus in 45 Colt, it was loaded with standard loads of 250 Cast FN with 8 gr Unique. In the little Taurus 2 inch gun, velocity was 700 fps. I finished the Sable with a round direct frontal in the chest. Later digging the bullet out, it had traveled over 3 feet of Sable at 700 fps.

I don't know, maybe I am missing something else or another objective, but I would start with 300s at Subsonic and see what happens.........
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It sounds like 300g is all I need.
My goal is a quiet and a quick ethical kill as possible. I thought heavier is better.
I did find a rifle that meets my needs wants.
Thanks!
 
The old Lyman Gould bullet, 457122, cast 20-1 or softer at a velocity of 1200-1400 is a noted killer of elk throughout the western states as well as a moose thumper. Those that bad mouthed the bullet cast them too hard, ran them too fast and saw animals suffer from a hole drilled straight through. Soft lead is as deadly a projectile as any when used properly on a soft skinned animal.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
My goal is a quiet and a quick ethical kill as possible.
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OK, and our limitation is SubSonic, 1000 fps or so.

In my opinion, we might be able to enhance this with some old fashioned bullet tech, in .452 caliber............

If we take a 300 gr Flat Nose cast bullet and a 500 gr Flat Nose Cast bullet, run both of them to 1000 fps. Lets shoot a deer broadside. Both are going to completely penetrate the deer, both are going to do the same damage, both are going to leave a .452 caliber hole, maybe slightly larger because of the Flat Meplat........ But the 500 gr is not going to do anymore than the 300 gr is going to do. The only thing the 500 gr bullet can do is penetrate deeper with every other factor being the exact same. Since we do not require that much penetration on deer, pigs and even black bear, a 300 will do anything we need to do, even southern end shots on North Bound deer/pigs/bear.

How do we "Enhance" any cartridge, or even any caliber? Bullet Tech, that is how.

SubSonic can always use some help. We are trying to do our part in this, by moving to larger caliber, .452 or even .458. This in my opinion just makes one hell of a giant leap for lethality!

What else can we do? Lots of things come to mind, and it gets pretty easy at .452 caliber, since many bullets are designed to expand, or inflict trauma at low velocity to begin with. Even some cheaper cast bullets as well. In the last couple of weeks I bought from Midway either 250 or 500 (I don't recall off hand) of 200 gr Cast Hollow Point bullets. I got them to load in some 45 ACP cases I had reserved for 200 gr Round Flat Nose Cast bullets, but since they were not available I went ahead and got a box of these, limit was one box. Now, with this conversation, I might be thinking that these bullets might even do a pretty good job in that SubSonic role of expansion, and enhance lethality in the field? I have not tested, or even loaded any yet, but this comes to mind regardless. And, very reasonable prices. Now, of course, you do loose penetration with a expanding bullet, but none the less, increased or enhance trauma inflicted, at very low velocity. Combined with Caliber as well.............Hmmmm........ You might be on to something really good...........

Personally I am not and never have been much of a SubSonic fan. I have the capability regardless, and my favorite is on a 45 ACP Carbine. This is close, but not as versatile as what you are talking about with a 450 Bushmaster bolt gun.
 
Found one locally from a dealer, $440.
Now to get casting & reloading components.
I’ve already got ~200lbs of lead.
There’s no way I’ll shoot if I have to buy ammo at $2.50 per round.
95D4DEB0-D70F-4403-BFD8-AD2DD9DCA54B.jpeg
 
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Get Off My Lawn said:
Found one locally from a dealer, $440.
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That is a easy as hell decision....

Get Off My Lawn said:
Now to get casting & reloading components.
I’ve already got ~200lbs of lead.
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Without a Doubt I would only consider Loading my Own on that deal............. But I would pass on the casting personally......... you have 200 lbs of lead, that will make 4600 300 gr bullets, you can shoot for a good while on
that...........

I like your decision on this, do get some photos going of the rifle.........
 
I do not know what type of rifle GOML has, perhaps I missed where he said, but I have an upper for 450 Bushmaster that I have used a little. I load the Hornady jacketed bullet designed for the 450 Bushmaster. I was wondering if I decided to load some cast bullets whether the bare lead would shave off in the gas hole and eventually clog it. The only other gas gun I have that in which I would consider shooting lead bullets is a M1 Carbine. I have not tried them in it yet for fear it might not be too friendly after a bunch of lead bullets. Is shooting lead bullets through a gas gun a legitimate concern or a nonissue?
 
Charlie said:
I do not know what type of rifle GOML has, perhaps I missed where he said, but I have an upper for 450 Bushmaster that I have used a little. I load the Hornady jacketed bullet designed for the 450 Bushmaster. I was wondering if I decided to load some cast bullets whether the bare lead would shave off in the gas hole and eventually clog it. The only other gas gun I have that in which I would consider shooting lead bullets is a M1 Carbine. I have not tried them in it yet for fear it might not be too friendly after a bunch of lead bullets. Is shooting lead bullets through a gas gun a legitimate concern or a nonissue?
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I don’t know about a gas gun. I’ll powder coat these to run through a can.
I got a Howa Mini 1500 bolt gun with a 16” threaded barrel in 450 Bushmaster.
It looks like this one.
D493D30D-F004-418D-A6DD-A24022536F9D.jpg
 
Charlie said:
I do not know what type of rifle GOML has, perhaps I missed where he said, but I have an upper for 450 Bushmaster that I have used a little. I load the Hornady jacketed bullet designed for the 450 Bushmaster. I was wondering if I decided to load some cast bullets whether the bare lead would shave off in the gas hole and eventually clog it. The only other gas gun I have that in which I would consider shooting lead bullets is a M1 Carbine. I have not tried them in it yet for fear it might not be too friendly after a bunch of lead bullets. Is shooting lead bullets through a gas gun a legitimate concern or a nonissue?
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Ive been considering casting for .50 beowulf, and potentially powder coating the projectiles so that the gas system is not getting raw lead in it...

Ive seen reports of very successful use, so id imagine it would work for any gas gun in a big bore cal.
 
Charlie said:
Is shooting lead bullets through a gas gun a legitimate concern or a nonissue?
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Charlie, I have never thought of that, I really don't know, but I would guess it could be a concern. As mentioned, maybe the coated bullets would not be a problem? ????
DickFord said:
Can you just size a 458 to 452 or am I wrong?
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You can, have to have a special set of bullet sizing dies to do so with jacketed bullets. Not sure exactly why one would in this case with so many .452s available.......But there is always a reason that I might not think of too........
Some years ago Layne Simpson had a set of dies done to take .510 caliber bullets down to .500 for his 50 B&M Alaskan. He sent some for testing, they tested as expected, but there really was no reason for that as we have
so many, even MORE good bullets available now in .500 than in .510 for those purposes..........We never went anywhere with that other than an exercise to see if we could.........
Get Off My Lawn said:
I got a Howa Mini 1500 bolt gun with a 16” threaded barrel in 450 Bushmaster.
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I like that, this looks like a very fun project...........I believe its well on its way to success.............
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
@Michael458 have you done testing with this caliber & case capacity to have sonic velocity #'s when cutting the barrel down?
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No, I have not. But your bolt gun concept is very intriguing to me.....It would appear to me that the case capacity has the ability to over perform at top end with some .452 caliber bullets. But it also looks like it will be fairly easy to down load most anything you might run. I have only seen one load with Trail Boss that is under Sub Sonic. But I would imagine you can find SubSonic with several different powders. Top end powders look to be LilGun, WW 296 mostly, with a smattering of AA 9, Enforcer, IMR 4227, and AA 1680. Most all that data with 16 inch barrels. Sonic loads will not a be a problem at all........ SubSonic might have to play with some different things.... Any idea where you would like to start with SubSonic?
 
Michael458 said:
.... Any idea where you would like to start with SubSonic?
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Nope, I only found out a 16” 45 caliber short action existed Monday.
Then as to that it’s Mauser bolt control round feed, manual ejector rifle to boot.
My .46 cal SiCo Hybrid suppressor is in NFA jail, I seriously doubt it’ll arrive before deer season.
 
Yeah, I was thinking that it probably could not be actual Control Feed gun. If so, I was going to look for one myself.. HEH...........

Although regardless I would be tempted anyway. Just looks like a really fun gun to play with, and since most of us already have lots of .452 bullets and powder anyway........... Hmmmm...... I was curious about brass and dies. I quickly found Midway had Lee dies, about the only ones available. GunBroker has brass from a few places.

One issue that you might have, feed/function of larger meplat cast bullets might be an issue with the push feed bolt. ???
 
Michael458 said:
Yeah, I was thinking that it probably could not be actual Control Feed gun. If so, I was going to look for one myself.. HEH...........

Although regardless I would be tempted anyway. Just looks like a really fun gun to play with, and since most of us already have lots of .452 bullets and powder anyway........... Hmmmm...... I was curious about brass and dies. I quickly found Midway had Lee dies, about the only ones available. GunBroker has brass from a few places.

One issue that you might have, feed/function of larger meplat cast bullets might be an issue with the push feed bolt. ???
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I found it, the CZ527 has a micro action and Mauser bolt.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
I found it, the CZ527 has a micro action and Mauser bolt.
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Indeed........ If its not a Winchester M70, I normally go to GunBroker to see what is what...... reference. I see the CZ is control feed, but I don't see it in 450, if not offered in 450, then would have to build, back to the disadvantage of more $$.

I like what you have coming, at least to get started off......... Looking, I kinda like that Savage in 450........

WIll be interesting to see how and if they can feed the larger Meplat FN bullets... Hopefully so..... I would think maybe the manufactures took into account the .452 and the large variety of larger meplats in that caliber.......?
 
Michael458 said:
Indeed........ If its not a Winchester M70, I normally go to GunBroker to see what is what...... reference. I see the CZ is control feed, but I don't see it in 450, if not offered in 450, then would have to build, back to the disadvantage of more $$.

I like what you have coming, at least to get started off......... Looking, I kinda like that Savage in 450........

WIll be interesting to see how and if they can feed the larger Meplat FN bullets... Hopefully so..... I would think maybe the manufactures took into account the .452 and the large variety of larger meplats in that caliber.......?
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I need brass, bullets and dies to find out.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
I need brass, bullets and dies to find out.
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I did a quick look at Midway yesterday and they had Lee Dies on hand. Also a decent variety of .452 bullets. No brass. Did a quick search on GunBroker for brass yesterday and found a few places had it......



There was some Hornady brass, but the two above are Starline, which I would rather have.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
Venison, and hog if I get an opportunity.
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You don’t need much to kill a deer.
I’ve done it with very small pills.
The trick is to do it and not tear up a bunch of meat. We have fairly small deer here. (occasionally you’ll see a bigger one)
So the need for big bores and big pills is not even a consideration.
 
Tailhunter said:
You don’t need much to kill a deer.
I’ve done it with very small pills.
The trick is to do it and not tear up a bunch of meat. We have fairly small deer here. (occasionally you’ll see a bigger one)
So the need for big bores and big pills is not even a consideration.
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I’ve been anchoring them with 7-08 & 300BLK sonics.
I want ethical kills with subsonic suppressed rounds. Hence the big bore, plus it’s got a cool factor to me.
 
Tailhunter said:
You don’t need much to kill a deer.
I’ve done it with very small pills.
The trick is to do it and not tear up a bunch of meat. We have fairly small deer here. (occasionally you’ll see a bigger one)
So the need for big bores and big pills is not even a consideration.
Click to expand...

Moderately hard cast, big meplate, and slow. You can eat right up to both the entrance and exit holes.
 
Michael458 said:
I did a quick look at Midway yesterday and they had Lee Dies on hand. Also a decent variety of .452 bullets. No brass. Did a quick search on GunBroker for brass yesterday and found a few places had it......



There was some Hornady brass, but the two above are Starline, which I would rather have.
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I’ve had excellent service from Hornady 450 brass, some with 8+ loadings, and mine were bought once fired.
 
It looks like Hornady Custom dies are the way to go. Seating and crimping (taper) are different dies.
It appears Lee dies have a different style crimp & the 450 head spaces off the case mouth.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
It looks like Hornady Custom dies are the way to go. Seating and crimping (taper) are different dies.
It appears Lee dies have a different style crimp & the 450 head spaces off the case mouth.
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I use Lee dies for my 450 loads, but use the Lee factory crimp die to crimp. It’s an extra step, but I don’t like crimping with the seating die. I’ve heard the Hornady dies are excellent.
 
303hunter said:
I use Lee dies for my 450 loads, but use the Lee factory crimp die to crimp. It’s an extra step, but I don’t like crimping with the seating die. I’ve heard the Hornady dies are excellent.
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I understand the Lee crimp isn't a taper crimp. They are a better price, and are more available.
 
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303hunter said:
I’ve had excellent service from Hornady 450 brass, some with 8+ loadings, and mine were bought once fired.
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Most of the time I have not had any issues with Hornady brass, but it is hit and miss with some. I have never loaded or even shot 450 BushMaster, and obviously as you say Hornady brass is fine. Just from other types of Hornady brass, most of the issues with it being thinner, is why I rather have Starline or another brand if available. When 300 RUM was no longer available from Remington, Hornady, Nosler and Norma took up the mantle on all the RUM brass, except 375 RUM as of yet. Of those three, the Hornady comes in dead last. It will hold the pressures, but it is so much thinner that it can cause issues when trying to convert it to B&M brass by not holding the bullets tight enough. However, we are not converting the 450 BM to anything else. Still, if I had a choice, I would choose Starline.

As for dies, I like Hornady dies, and all the B&M dies are made by Hornady. I also use a lot of RCBS and Redding, but the only dies I saw available for the 450 on Midway was Lee. I did not look at any other sources, Graff, MidSouth, or anywhere else.
 
The only time I had problems with Hornady brass was with 460 S&W. I had difficult extraction with charges well below max published. I did not have the problem with Starline.

450B is a much lower pressure round than 460 S&W.
 
Toprudder said:
The only time I had problems with Hornady brass was with 460 S&W. I had difficult extraction with charges well below max published. I did not have the problem with Starline.

450B is a much lower pressure round than 460 S&W.
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Hornady manufactured brass for 6.8 SPC isn’t the greatest either. S&B manufactures a lot of brass for Hornady loaded 6.8 ammo, and the S&B brass is good stuff. If you buy new unprimed brass, it’s made by Hornady, and I find that practice strange. Also, loaded 6.8 ammo with Hornady made brass has crimped primers, and ammo made with S&B brass does not.
 
I use lapua brass in my .308
I mixed brass in everything else. (Winchester, RP, Starline, Hornady)

I have had some 44mag brass made by starline separate at the base.
 
I use Starline for my hot 45 Colt loads, and it’s held up extremely well. Just got into 45 Colt at the start of the pandemic, and had one helluva time finding brass. I’ve never found one single piece of Hornady 45 brass, and I’ve searched many gun shows looking for brass.
 
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