Where my runners at?

@RetiredUSNChief totally agree... make THEM think they are making the decision, but actually making YOUR decision.

And yes, I sure served under my fair share of dicks and hard asses. The hard asses I did not mind, so long as they were fair. But I hated the conniving, political dickheads.
 
Chuckman said:
@RetiredUSNChief totally agree... make THEM think they are making the decision, but actually making YOUR decision.

And yes, I sure served under my fair share of dicks and hard asses. The hard asses I did not mind, so long as they were fair. But I hated the conniving, political dickheads.
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I didn't mind a hardass. In general, they tend to be very straight forward in their standards and expectations, which means you know what's important to them and that's more than half the battle.
 
Did 5 miles yesterday and again today. Used a breath right strip today since my nose is worthless and was able to do the entire 5 miles nose breathing. Was able to keep pace, my lips and mouth didn’t dry out, and didn’t get thirsty.

I feel great. Yesterday without it was a slog.
 
So,
I bought a Peleton Tread Plus a few months ago.
Been really serious this last month- everyday I run for 20 min, steadily improving my times and duration.

What kills me is I am finally back to eating Keto, running and lifting every day, and next month I have to have major abdominal surgery, again.
Gonna be totally out of comish for 8 weeks.
 
matttahoe53 said:
Did 5 miles yesterday and again today. Used a breath right strip today since my nose is worthless and was able to do the entire 5 miles nose breathing. Was able to keep pace, my lips and mouth didn’t dry out, and didn’t get thirsty.

I feel great. Yesterday without it was a slog.
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Keep at it. You have to train your nose to work again too. I cannot believe how much better I breath now. Nose is less congested, everything just works better. Much more stamina running.

Once you get the hang of nose breathing look up diaphragmatic breathing, belly breathing. I use it in conjunction with nose breathing. When I start to get winded or start uphills I start breathing slower and deeper into the belly. Now I can actually breath too much and get lightheaded while running uphill!

Ran 3.2 last night. Still sore from Kettlebells on Sat but I made it.
 
Rogan recently had James Nestor, author of “Breathe” and a on the podcast.
One of the things they talked about was nose breathing.

I never understood this.
Breathing through my mouth is easier to gulp larger amounts of air.
More air equals more oxygen equals better performance, right?
Right?

Nope!
The above would make sense if we were internal combustion engines, and not biological machines.

Breathing through your nose while running is harder, and causes a small buildup of CO2.
This build up is uncomfortable at first and makes you want to gasp for air, try to overcome the urge, and here is why: the excess buildup of CO2 causes your body to relax and expand blood vessels resulting in an overall increase of your load carrying capacity.

In the late 50’s champion track coaches would make runners run with their mouth full of water to actively discourage any mouth breathing. The Ancient Spartans had a similar tactic for their young neophytes.

Fascinating stuff.


I now try to run breathing through only my nose
 
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Spartan01 said:
Rogan recently had James Nestor, author of “Breathe” and a on the podcast.
One of the things they talked about was nose breathing.

I never understood this.
Breathing through my mouth is easier to gulp larger amounts of air.
More air equals more oxygen equals better performance, right?
Right?

Nope!
The above would make sense if we were internal combustion engines, and not biological machines.

Breathing through your nose while running is harder, and causes a small buildup of CO2.
This build up is uncomfortable at first and makes you want to gasp for air, try to overcome the urge, and here is why: the excess buildup of CO2 causes your body to relax and expand blood vessels resulting in an overall increase of your load carrying capacity.

In the late 50’s champion track coaches would make runners run with their mouth full of water to actively discourage any mouth breathing. The Ancient Spartans had a similar tactic for their young neophytes.

Fascinating stuff.


I now try to run breathing through only my nose
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And if you can manage to breathe deeper and slower it allows more time to exchange the O2 and CO2. Mouth breathing is more like panting. Lots of air is moving over a very short time. Less time to exchange it. Diaphragmatic breathing pulls the air deeper into the lungs where it has more time and space to make the exchanges.
 
chiefjason said:
And if you can manage to breathe deeper and slower it allows more time to exchange the O2 and CO2. Mouth breathing is more like panting. Lots of air is moving over a very short time. Less time to exchange it. Diaphragmatic breathing pulls the air deeper into the lungs where it has more time and space to make the exchanges.
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People who dive learn deep breaths is more efficient and less wasteful, too. While waste isn't a problem for runners like it is for divers, the deeper you breathe the less air is "recycled" in your airways compared to the total volume of air being inhaled and exhaled.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
People who dive learn deep breaths is more efficient and less wasteful, too. While waste isn't a problem for runners like it is for divers, the deeper you breathe the less air is "recycled" in your airways compared to the total volume of air being inhaled and exhaled.
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Nestor started down this path writing about free divers. So no surprise there.
 
Holding your breath diving and breathing while you are running are so completely different. One requires retaining CO2 while the other is built to rapidly get rid of it.

I posted this here somewhere before, the former track and cross-country coach at Duke owned one of the big "custom" running shoe stores here in Durham. I asked him about breathing, he said at the end of the day it doesn't matter. He said, and I quote, "If breathing through your ears gives you more oxygen, then do it. Mouth, nose, it's totally up to you."

I think this is the runner's version of Glock vs whatever, Ford vs Chevy, etc.
 
Chuckman said:
Holding your breath diving and breathing while you are running are so completely different. One requires retaining CO2 while the other is built to rapidly get rid of it.

I posted this here somewhere before, the former track and cross-country coach at Duke owned one of the big "custom" running shoe stores here in Durham. I asked him about breathing, he said at the end of the day it doesn't matter. He said, and I quote, "If breathing through your ears gives you more oxygen, then do it. Mouth, nose, it's totally up to you."

I think this is the runner's version of Glock vs whatever, Ford vs Chevy, etc.
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Nope. Before I did this I would agree. Afterwards, no way. You cannot explain the difference in performance for me with simply getting into shape. I've ran more regularly in the past and NEVER was able to do this breathing through my mouth. The change in stamina was nearly immediate, at least within 3 runs I went from having to stop 4-6 times in 3 miles, to stopping twice, to stopping once at my turn and running longer distance to boot.

Keep in mind that for me I'm coming at this from a perspective of having a badly deviated septum and struggling with nose breathing a good portion of my life. And I could never really get in shape or get my cardio up breathing through my mouth. It just ran my heart rate and breathign sky high and I would tire easily.

That said, if you can breath diaphragmatically through your mouth I can see it. The problem is, most people don't. And they end up just panting. Which runs up your heart rate, increases stress, and generally produces a lower O2 level and higher CO2 levels because you are not exchanging much air, you are just moving a lot of air.

The similarities in diving and running come in the process. Divers are taking deep, slow breaths to build up O2 and reduce CO2 before the dive. Runners are doing it during the exercise for the same reasons. I would also suggest that the bodies reaction to increasing CO2 in runners is what causes the panting, which does little to rid the body of the CO2, which begins to diminish performance. The body wants to breath heavier to rid the CO2 more so than increase the O2.
 
chiefjason said:
Nope. Before I did this I would agree. Afterwards, no way. You cannot explain the difference in performance for me with simply getting into shape. I've ran more regularly in the past and NEVER was able to do this breathing through my mouth. The change in stamina was nearly immediate, at least within 3 runs I went from having to stop 4-6 times in 3 miles, to stopping twice, to stopping once at my turn and running longer distance to boot.

Keep in mind that for me I'm coming at this from a perspective of having a badly deviated septum and struggling with nose breathing a good portion of my life. And I could never really get in shape or get my cardio up breathing through my mouth. It just ran my heart rate and breathign sky high and I would tire easily.

That said, if you can breath diaphragmatically through your mouth I can see it. The problem is, most people don't. And they end up just panting. Which runs up your heart rate, increases stress, and generally produces a lower O2 level and higher CO2 levels because you are not exchanging much air, you are just moving a lot of air.

The similarities in diving and running come in the process. Divers are taking deep, slow breaths to build up O2 and reduce CO2 before the dive. Runners are doing it during the exercise for the same reasons. I would also suggest that the bodies reaction to increasing CO2 in runners is what causes the panting, which does little to rid the body of the CO2, which begins to diminish performance. The body wants to breath heavier to rid the CO2 more so than increase the O2.
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I admit I don't know much about the aerobic physiology with running, which is why I quoted the track coach directly. I'm happy to give you his contact information if you want to take it up with him, I'm just passing it along. You know, Messenger and all.

Regarding dive physiology, I'm not sure many people on this forum can teach me much about it that I don't already know. But this I do know: holding your breath for an extended period of time alters the physiology whereas breeding faster and deeper alters in a different way.

Edited to add, I'm really not trying to be argumentative. The running part, I'm a recreational runner and I do it for general fitness (Even though I know there are better ways and easier ways to become fit without running, the military beat that into me and I can't quite get it out of me).
 
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You do NOT hold your breath while diving for a variety of reasons.

You breath deeply and calmly while diving. This maximizes the percentage of air that actually reaches your lungs and allows for O2 absorbtion, as opposed to just your airways which provide nothing for O2 absorption. Shallow breaths wastes air while diving.

You absolutely, positively do NOT want to EVER get in the habit of holding your breath while breathing compressed air (which you will be breathing while diving).

Even minor changes in depth (going shallower) while holding your breath can rupture your lungs, both on a microscopic and macroscopic level. This is caused when the compressed air you're breathing expands in response to the pressure drop when you go shallower. This, in medical terms, is known as a BAD thing.
 
Best of the season and at 189lbs. Nose breathing until about 4.5 miles and then just got air anyway I could.
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RetiredUSNChief said:
You do NOT hold your breath while diving for a variety of reasons.

You breath deeply and calmly while diving. This maximizes the percentage of air that actually reaches your lungs and allows for O2 absorbtion, as opposed to just your airways which provide nothing for O2 absorption. Shallow breaths wastes air while diving.

You absolutely, positively do NOT want to EVER get in the habit of holding your breath while breathing compressed air (which you will be breathing while diving).

Even minor changes in depth (going shallower) while holding your breath can rupture your lungs, both on a microscopic and macroscopic level. This is caused when the compressed air you're breathing expands in response to the pressure drop when you go shallower. This, in medical terms, is known as a BAD thing.
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Yes, absolutely. I think, and I could be wrong, the issue in this thread is about the deep and rapid breathing to blow off CO2 to be able to hold your breath longer, like doing pool crossovers, or like those divers doing the Pacific when they're down for 4 minutes hunting fish.

I saw documentary on those guys, they do absolutely breathe out every few seconds, even more when they are ascending. But just like the Sherpas at high altitude where you are hypobaric, these guys have a physiology specific to do that.

In dive school we would often have shallow water blackout during crossovers when we would do this for the underwater swims.
 
Chuckman said:
I admit I don't know much about the aerobic physiology with running, which is why I quoted the track coach directly. I'm happy to give you his contact information if you want to take it up with him, I'm just passing it along. You know, Messenger and all.

Regarding dive physiology, I'm not sure many people on this forum can teach me much about it that I don't already know. But this I do know: holding your breath for an extended period of time alters the physiology whereas breeding faster and deeper alters in a different way.

Edited to add, I'm really not trying to be argumentative. The running part, I'm a recreational runner and I do it for general fitness (Even though I know there are better ways and easier ways to become fit without running, the military beat that into me and I can't quite get it out of me).
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Yeah, I find the banter interesting. Nestor came at this from free diving though. WAY different than any type of SCUBA. Where the divers are trying to alter the chemical composition of their blood before the dive so they can hold their breath longer. I've started Whim Hoff breathing which is apparently similar to how free divers train. But It's complimentary to what I'm doing with running except Whim does not care how you breath doing his exercises.

I've mainly picked this up listening to podcasts and seeing how my body reacts to it. Can't claim any expertise except in how I've reacted to it. Which has been pretty phenomenal. I've even stopped snoring at night. I did mouth taping for about 6 weeks and no longer need to do that to not snore. Apparently I've managed to wipe out all the bad mouth breathing habits I've had since a teen in about 2 months. And it's made a huge difference for me.
 
Chuckman said:
Yes, absolutely. I think, and I could be wrong, the issue in this thread is about the deep and rapid breathing to blow off CO2 to be able to hold your breath longer, like doing pool crossovers, or like those divers doing the Pacific when they're down for 4 minutes hunting fish.

I saw documentary on those guys, they do absolutely breathe out every few seconds, even more when they are ascending. But just like the Sherpas at high altitude where you are hypobaric, these guys have a physiology specific to do that.

In dive school we would often have shallow water blackout during crossovers when we would do this for the underwater swims.
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You got in while I left in the middle of typing. That deep, rapid breathing is the Whim Hoff stuff I'm doing before bed, complete with breath holds. My longest so far was 2:20, average is 1:30-2:00. It's a cool exercise. And helpful in developing the diaphragmatic breathing I use running.

But it's not how I breath when I run. I actually breath deep and slow. If I start getting winded I'll slow my pace, then deepen and slow down my breathing. I can feel my legs perk up doing it and then I'll pick my pace back up.
 
Took advantage of the cool temperature and cloud cover and tried to push it. The plan was to push the first three and go from there. I strained my calf and called it good for today. Pretty happy with the progress.
57e8b2366f2d7d01df5a0d97f9dd7e12.jpg
 
Let me add my 2 cents.
And I swear this is all me, I am not a shill.

I was listening to Joe Rogan’s podcast, he had Mat the guy who won the most CrossFit games ever.
They were talking about supplements.
Mat mentioned Beta Alanine. So I looked it up
It makes your body produce or absorb less lactic acid so you can run harder/faster/longer.
It’s cheap too! It was only $14
I ordered mine from Amazon. A small tub that is 100 servings came. It’s a powder, you take a small scoop and add it to a drink 20 min before a workout. Or, I just scoop it into my mouth, it tastes pretty good. It will make your face flush and feel tingly a bit at first. But… Wow! It makes a difference. Anyway, it is worth looking into.
Nutricost Beta Alanine Powder 300 Grams (10.6oz) - 3 Grams Per Serving https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWE8WAM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_kZevLO7qdII47
 
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Spartan01 said:
Keep it going!
I have been sidelined with an injury.
Some 16 year old kid with no drivers license rear ended me. My neck, shoulder and back are jacked up.
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Felt wrong to like this. That sucks. That last half mile back was a drag. But not any more sore than normal today.
 
Spartan01 said:
Let me add my 2 cents.
And I swear this is all me, I am not a shill.

I was listening to Joe Rogan’s podcast, he had Mat the guy who won the most CrossFit games ever.
They were talking about supplements.
Mat mentioned Beta Alanine. So I looked it up
It makes your body produce or absorb less lactic acid so you can run harder/faster/longer.
It’s cheap too! It was only $14
I ordered mine from Amazon. A small tub that is 100 servings came. It’s a powder, you take a small scoop and add it to a drink 20 min before a workout. Or, I just scoop it into my mouth, it tastes pretty good. It will make your face flush and feel tingly a bit at first. But… Wow! It makes a difference. Anyway, it is worth looking into.
Nutricost Beta Alanine Powder 300 Grams (10.6oz) - 3 Grams Per Serving https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWE8WAM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_kZevLO7qdII47
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Sounds a lot less harsh than an ice cold bath or icy shower....
 
Just saw this thread. Haven't read through it all but I'm an ultra runner. Usually do at least a 50k race a month. Typically do about 40-50 miles a week. Have another 100 in September. Let me know if anyone wants to log some miles in the Fort Mill area.
 
49erRider said:
Just saw this thread. Haven't read through it all but I'm an ultra runner. Usually do at least a 50k race a month. Typically do about 40-50 miles a week. Have another 100 in September. Let me know if anyone wants to log some miles in the Fort Mill area.
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Chuckman said:
Sounds a lot less harsh than an ice cold bath or icy shower....
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Been doing cold showers for about a month. After about a week you get used to it. I do it for about 4 minutes at the end of my shower. I've made so many changes I can't tell you if it works or not but it's not that bad if you do it right. Been doing some of the Wim Hoff stuff and he pushes it.

Not sure I'm up for an ice bath though.
 
chiefjason said:
Been doing cold showers for about a month. After about a week you get used to it. I do it for about 4 minutes at the end of my shower. I've made so many changes I can't tell you if it works or not but it's not that bad if you do it right. Been doing some of the Wim Hoff stuff and he pushes it.

Not sure I'm up for an ice bath though.
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I do the same thing, ice cold shower at the end of my normal shower. Pretty much similar effects to the classical Finnish sauna: a few minutes in the sauna, run out and jump in a snow bank.

I was in cold water so much when I was in the Navy, I hate it. I don't even go into a pool or the ocean unless water temp is over 80.
 
Chuckman said:
I do the same thing, ice cold shower at the end of my normal shower. Pretty much similar effects to the classical Finnish sauna: a few minutes in the sauna, run out and jump in a snow bank.

I was in cold water so much when I was in the Navy, I hate it. I don't even go into a pool or the ocean unless water temp is over 80.
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Figured that might be part of it. For me, breathing really helps. If you get the deep steady breathing going it really counteracts the feel of the cold water.
 
49erRider said:
Just saw this thread. Haven't read through it all but I'm an ultra runner. Usually do at least a 50k race a month. Typically do about 40-50 miles a week. Have another 100 in September. Let me know if anyone wants to log some miles in the Fort Mill area.
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1625849674392.png

JK. That's serious mileage. I worked with a doc at Duke who does quite well in ultras. He's old (well, older...early/mid-60s) and usually places top 3 in just about everything he does.
 
49erRider said:
Oh shit, did I do something? Should I have read the thread haha.
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Nah man, I’m just messing with you.
We are all old and trying to get back in shape, he’ll I wish I could run sub 8 min miles.
You are an ultra runner so I had to poke you with a stick a little bit.
All in good fun.
 
Getting back into running again. Stopped after having some knee/ankle issues in Afghanistan couple years ago. Been walking 4 miles every evening since beginning of June. Last week been running parts of it. It was 111 degrees yesterday and 99 degrees out after sunset when I start. Elevation is at sea level here in Abu Dhabi. Did a marathon 10 yrs ago to the day in Afghanistan. Elevation then was 6500'.

CD
 
Was getting a bit sore so took a couple days off. Pushed a little harder tonight and got a little better time for the effort.

0771BC3F-183C-4A23-AA30-E6F53308F719.png
 
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