Dale Gribble
Can't starve us out; Can't make us run
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If this officer was pocket carrying a J frame or LCP she probably would have been dead…
Do what now?
If this officer was pocket carrying a J frame or LCP she probably would have been dead…
What he meant was "If she was pocket carrying a p320 she'd be dead". Cause...you know....Do what now?
As to "you can miss from 3 feet". Yes you absolutely can. Especially if you are incompetent at shooting guns. I think we could all agree if it were Jerry Miculek we would have seen a different result. Likely with a cluster of bullets in center mass and a room temperature body. Regardless of the gun used.
she fired at least 5 shots (from my count) and just grazed him so in this case 5 wasn’t enough to get the job done.Exactly this.
I'm not Jerry, but if I've got a J frame on me, I'm not exactly defenseless...
I think some folks around here are a lot more caught up on equipment than they should be.
/agreeyou need to practice with whatever you carry
she fired at least 5 shots (from my count) and just grazed him so in this case 5 wasn’t enough to get the job done.
Practice of course is the most important but many people don’t shoot their “get off me guns” because they think they can’t miss. Clearly you can miss and you need to practice with whatever you carry.
she fired at least 5 shots (from my count) and just grazed him so in this case 5 wasn’t enough to get the job done.
Practice of course is the most important but many people don’t shoot their “get off me guns” because they think they can’t miss. Clearly you can miss and you need to practice with whatever you carry.
while you can practice that going to matches does provide some level of stress which will help you learn to cope with it. Many people decry matches as being “unrealistic “ which while fair, is not the point of multiple target, odd positions and so on. It is to provide a level of stress and unfamiliarity in order to test your training.Yes. Make sure you practice shooting someone while they are swinging a hammer at you.
Like some fire depts, If she can toss a 200lb man on her back, climb down a ladder and carry him away from the threat, she’s qualified to continue training.
As someone who Carry’s in their front pocket, I walk around with my hands in my pockets anyway. If my hands are not busy and in my pockets, my right one is always touching the grip. Go shoot with some folks that practice this particular way of carrying, and see if you can outdraw them with appendix carry or 4 o’clock tested by a shot timer. “Draw from concealment “ my hand is already on my gun as it’s in my pocket, where’s your hand?I feel drawing from a pocket is slower than drawing from appendix or 4 o’clock. Second I highly doubt it can be done back peddling if it is in your front pocket.
It is something we can test on the clock next time we are at the range.
As someone who Carry’s in their front pocket, I walk around with my hands in my pockets anyway. If my hands are not busy and in my pockets, my right one is always touching the grip. Go shoot with some folks that practice this particular way of carrying, and see if you can outdraw them with appendix carry or 4 o’clock tested by a shot timer. “Draw from concealment “ my hand is already on my gun as it’s in my pocket, where’s your hand?
Just another point of view
As someone who Carry’s in their front pocket, I walk around with my hands in my pockets anyway. If my hands are not busy and in my pockets, my right one is always touching the grip. Go shoot with some folks that practice this particular way of carrying, and see if you can outdraw them with appendix carry or 4 o’clock tested by a shot timer. “Draw from concealment “ my hand is already on my gun as it’s in my pocket, where’s your hand?
Just another point of view
while you can practice that going to matches does provide some level of stress which will help you learn to cope with it. Many people decry matches as being “unrealistic “ which while fair, is not the point of multiple target, odd positions and so on. It is to provide a level of stress and unfamiliarity in order to test your training.
If’n I recall, @BatteryOaksBilly mentioned the only folks that won a Beat The Wizard shirt was pocket and appendix carrying folks.As someone who Carry’s in their front pocket, I walk around with my hands in my pockets anyway. If my hands are not busy and in my pockets, my right one is always touching the grip. Go shoot with some folks that practice this particular way of carrying, and see if you can outdraw them with appendix carry or 4 o’clock tested by a shot timer. “Draw from concealment “ my hand is already on my gun as it’s in my pocket, where’s your hand?
Just another point of view
*Ahem*Using her right hand to activate a lapel mic? She says something to someone on the radio, and she's probably got 10000 reps of hitting that mic with her right and and 4 reps of drawing the gun with that hand so training says to use the mic first and then panic
If you can't have strength, you MUST have technique.I do not approve of women being street cops. 99.8% of them are not built for combat against a man.
sheesh man, no need to rub it in. I'm ACTIVELY trying to lose some weight already!Like some fire depts, If she can toss a 200lb man on her back, climb down a ladder and carry him away from the threat, she’s qualified to continue training.
I call it the missing rolodex card. We train for scenarios, so that we can file them away in our rolodex of responses. If we don't train for a scenario and are presented with it in life and there's not a card for it we freeze, wondering what to do. It doesn't help that our brain, under stress is unable to reason at that time either.Her pistol should have been out of the holster when his trailing foot left the porch. Instead, she reached for her radio to call for backup, as per her training/orders.
"Don't escalate. Call for backup."
And when he started running toward her, her mind wouldn't accept what was about to happen.
The "Deer caught in the headlights" syndrome.
Its all a fight, whether wespons are used or not. This is key and why "combatives" is really the correct approach. Within the Tueller range, it's going to get hands on whether you like it nor not. It's eye opening for most when you can demonstrate that they cannot draw in time stop someone charging from 10ft away and can barely get a round of from the 21ft Teuller distance if at all. People don't want to believe it, but they can't beat physiology.Not knowing how to actually fight is the issue here.
Force on force training and as mentioned dynamic style competition.Yes. Make sure you practice shooting someone while they are swinging a hammer at you.
I'm wondering if she could have fired on him before he got to her because he was still some distance away and he was "only" armed with a hammer. And...given the recent silliness...WOULD she have fired? I timed him from where both his feet were on the ground until he made contact with 1 Mississippi 2 Mississippi...and it took him 10 seconds to reach her. If her brain didn't register that she was coming under lethal attack in that amount of time, I'm not sure that she would have in time to stop him.If we don't train for a scenario and are presented with it in life and there's not a card for it we freeze, wondering what to do. It doesn't help that our brain, under stress is unable to reason at that time either.
I just re-watched the vid a couple of times. First request should have been followed with command voice and draw as he agressively came off porch. Once he rounded the fence, any further aggression made him an active target. Lateral movement, a side step or two with gun on target. Advancement by perp means firing until target is no longer in the sights, either by collapse or retreat.I'm wondering if she could have fired on him before he got to her because he was still some distance away and he was "only" armed with a hammer. And...given the recent silliness...WOULD she have fired? I timed him from where both his feet were on the ground until he made contact with 1 Mississippi 2 Mississippi...and it took him 10 seconds to reach her. If her brain didn't register that she was coming under lethal attack in that amount of time, I'm not sure that she would have in time to stop him.
When I asked "could" she, I meant could she bring herself to shoot him even in the face of an imminent threat. Since she had the gun pointed at him finger on the trigger while he was some distance away, I have my doubts. See my EDIT TO ADD on my last post.I just re-watched the vid a couple of times. First request should have been followed with command voice and draw as he agressively came off porch. Once he rounded the fence, any further aggression made him an active target. Lateral movement, a side step or two with gun on target. Advancement by perp means firing until target is no longer in the sights, either by collapse or retreat.
She was distracted being on radio.
Yes, good point. I think that's a question everybody needs to ask themselves.When I asked "could" she, I meant could she bring herself to shoot him even in the face of an imminent threat. Since she had the gun pointed at him finger on the trigger while he was some distance away, I have my doubts. See my EDIT TO ADD on my last post.
Bingo. Points that I've made many times over the years.This needs to be worked out beforehand. What are the triggers? What are the lines that get crossed that green light a response with deadly force? Thinking won't happen in the middle of a fight and hesitation can mean life or death. And life isn't black-and-white.
Never bet on some else's behavior or reaction to anything you do. People do stupid $hit. He'll, we can't even bet on our own behavior.Bingo. Points that I've made many times over the years.
Beforehand. Absolutely.
A final possibility is that...because she had the gun and he only had a hammer...she fully expected him to comply right up to the point that he knocked her down. More than once over the years, I've seen the big/bad guy get his ass handed to him by the little guy because he didn't think that the little guy had the cojones to hit him, even though the little guy was obviously getting himself set to do just that.
Bingo 2.Never bet on some else's behavior or reaction to anything you do
Bingo 2.
There are some people who are absolutely not intimidated by a disparity of force or a weapon. Some even take it as a challenge. Goliath probably expected David to run.
All the same...Proof positive that shot placement is more critical than caliber. 😎
I'll take my chances with two big holes when the critter is doin' his best to kill me, thank you.Penetration is over rated and over penetration more so.
The big issue with overpenetration is that energy is being wasted. If your bullet went in and out the other end, then it still has energy that hasn't been imparted to the target. You might as well have a less powerful bullet, less recoil, and more shots at that point.I'll take my chances with two big holes when the critter is doin' his best to kill me, thank you.
Been there, done that.