Wonder why we have a recruitment problem…

RetiredUSNChief said:
Senior Second (E-5) is the sweet spot in several ways.

It doesn't take much to make E-5, for one. You're not among the most junior, so you miss a lot of the BS that the most junior get. You're qualified senior in-rate. You're generally at the workcenter supervisor level with respect to collateral duties. A lot of opportunities for E-6 perks are available (for nukes, this generally means you can pursue EWS/EDPO qualifications, for example). You don't have the responsibilities and expectations which generally go along with E-6. If you know your $#!t, you more easily have the respect of more senior people.

I disliked slackers who b*tched at this level who didn't realize how good they had it. Get off your keister and make something of yourself.
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I never had a chance for E6, I got my commission when I was E5. That was a great place to be. E4 as a platoon corpsman was pretty sweet, too.
 
Chuckman said:
I never had a chance for E6, I got my commission when I was E5. That was a great place to be. E4 as a platoon corpsman was pretty sweet, too.
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Yeah, I hear IDC with Marines is the place to be!
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
Senior Second (E-5) is the sweet spot in several ways.

It doesn't take much to make E-5, for one. You're not among the most junior, so you miss a lot of the BS that the most junior get. You're qualified senior in-rate. You're generally at the workcenter supervisor level with respect to collateral duties. A lot of opportunities for E-6 perks are available (for nukes, this generally means you can pursue EWS/EDPO qualifications, for example). You don't have the responsibilities and expectations which generally go along with E-6. If you know your $#!t, you more easily have the respect of more senior people.

I disliked slackers who b*tched at this level who didn't realize how good they had it. Get off your keister and make something of yourself.
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As E5/E6 I was the Troubleshooter/Final checker LPO we were the last ditch quick fix artists so the AC goes flying or we decide its not safe to fly. Right after I made 1st class I was ranked the #1 1st class in VA 34. Then the a-6 squadrons went away and I ended up on a totally different platform E2C trying to compete with people who had spent 12-15 years on that aircraft. I ended up in Maintenance Control in charge of programs which meant I was not fixing Aircraft and in aviation that is the death knell, even though I was the only person singled out for my programs (by name) in the squadrons AIRLANT Inspection. It also seemed to me that more E6s wanted to look good by making someone else look bad instead of supporting each other by the late 1990s
 
vaskeet said:
As E5/E6 I was the Troubleshooter/Final checker LPO we were the last ditch quick fix artists so the AC goes flying or we decide its not safe to fly. Right after I made 1st class I was ranked the #1 1st class in VA 34. Then the a-6 squadrons went away and I ended up on a totally different platform E2C trying to compete with people who had spent 12-15 years on that aircraft. I ended up in Maintenance Control in charge of programs which meant I was not fixing Aircraft and in aviation that is the death knell, even though I was the only person singled out for my programs (by name) in the squadrons AIRLANT Inspection. It also seemed to me that more E6s wanted to look good by making someone else look bad instead of supporting each other by the late 1990s
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Heh!

I had one of my Chiefs come back to the Engineroom one day and tell me "Well...I ALMOST had you ranked #1 First Class, but I didn't quite have enough to support you."

I laughed and told him it didn't matter. I hadn't been ranked #1 ever and it didn't matter to me as I knew what my job and responsibilities were.

He said "So, tell me...did you tell your last Chief he could suck the heat out of your *ss?"

I laughed and told him "Yes!"

"Well, apparently the COB overheard that and I didn't have any information to rebut that!

"Well, first of all, if Chief Light actually thought I was being disrespectful to him in any way, he would have ripped me a new one right then and there. But it was in private in the Goatlocker." Then I told him the full story.

Then I said "You really didn't need to know the story behind it at all to rebut it. You should have simply told the COB that any First Class who could stand up to his Chief face-to-face on a matter of principle has your vote and left it at that!"


As for E6s wanting to look good by making someone else look bad...when I went to shore duty at NPTU Charleston, I had heard all the horror stories about how it was a "First Class rat race for Chief" type of environment. When I got there, however, I soon discovered it wasn't. If you wanted to stand out, all you had to do was your job. At least, what I thought was the job of a First Class. In my opinion, my job was to actually act as the LPO of whatever crew I was assigned to...whether I was the actual LPO or not. That meant showing up to work early (like the LPO is supposed to do) to get a grip on everything before everybody else gets there, keep up on student progress (all of them not just your own), keep track of the maintenance assigned to the crew and ensure it's scheduled appropriately, ensure you've got a good and proper turnover from the previous crew, walk through all your spaces, blah, blah, blah.

Basically, even if you're not the actual LPO you need to be there WITH the LPO getting sh*t done. If you're not working to carry your share of the load commensurate with your rank, then you might as well still be a Second Class. You don't need to make other E-6s "look bad"...you need to work WITH all the other First Class POs to make the Division/Crew/Department look GOOD. You're a team, act like it.
 
I always thought one of my biggest jobs as LPO was to be a insulator for my people I took the undeserved butt chewing and they never heard a word about it now if it was deserved then they got it. I had a good time and I am happy with what I did in the navy. I wish I could have made Chief so my father-in-law could have attended the Initiation and tortured me LOL My 1st priority was that EVERY Aircraft I sent off the deck was SAFE
 
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vaskeet said:
I always thought one of my biggest jobs as LPO was to be a insulator for my people I took the undeserved butt chewing and they never heard a word about it now if it was deserved then they got it. I had a good time and I am happy with what I did in the navy. I wish I could have made Chief so my father-in-law could have attended the Initiation and tortured me LOL My 1st priority was that EVERY Aircraft I sent off the deck was SAFE
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It's also important to let those over you know that if you're the LPO, then YOU run the division, not them.

When I first reported to the USS L. Mendel Rivers as a First Class and got to the XO during my check-in, he shook my hand, welcomed me to the command, then told me flat out "You will run your division or I will run it for you."

HELLS YEAH! I knew right then exactly how I was going to handle anybody who got in my way!

During a time period when I had no Chief, the EDMC fully supported me in that role. And one of my favorite memories was a particular division officer (a POS, by the way) I had who evidently thought otherwise. He told me "There is no such thing as day-after-duty". (He was talking about the assumption that some people had that the day after a full duty day was automatically a day of liberty. It wasn't and that wasn't how I treated it. Early liberty is EARNED and is based on the needs of the division/command as well.)

I said "Noted". (God, how officers HATE that!) He gave me a ration over this and I told him "I said 'noted'. That means I have heard and taken note of what you've said."

During quarters that morning, I told my division (while the division officer was there) "There is no such thing as day-after-duty any more." The groans started.

When quarters was over and the Div-O had left, I had the division muster pierside next to the dumpsters where we'd be away from everybody else.


Just to let you guys know, there never has been "day-after-duty". There's only ever been "liberty" and I control early liberty. Liberty is based on your qualification status, your collateral duty status, the maintenance load, training, exams, etc. If you are not delinquent in qualifications, if I don't need you for work, if your collateral duties are all up to speed and so forth, then I don't have a problem with early liberty for those who had duty the day before. But I am the one who has always determined this. So I don't want to hear anybody saying they're "day-after" at quarters any more. What I want to hear is "I've got an appointment to get my car serviced." "I've got to take my pet goat to the vet today." "I need to be at the house for the cable guy."

SO, with that in mind, tomorrow is Thursday and I've decided Friday will be a uniform inspection day. If you have duty tomorrow, get your uniform ready for inspection today. For everybody else, tomorrow will be rope-yarn and the ONLY people I want to see at quarters are the duty section people not on watch.


Quarters the next morning was very entertaining, watching my Div-O blow up.

Where is everybody? (Only me and one other guy was there, the second duty section guy being on watch at the time.)

I gave them all rope-yarn for today because we're having a uniform inspection at quarters tomorrow.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT!

Sir, you fail to understand who runs this division. It's my division and I'll run it how I see fit. If you have a problem with that you can take it up with the Engineer and the EDMC. Also, if you don't understand the fine naval tradition of rope-yarn, I invite you to look it up. And, since we're having a uniform inspection tomorrow, your uniform had better be squared away too because I'm not having MY division officer come to the inspection looking like crap.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
It's also important to let those over you know that if you're the LPO, then YOU run the division, not them.

When I first reported to the USS L. Mendel Rivers as a First Class and got to the XO during my check-in, he shook my hand, welcomed me to the command, then told me flat out "You will run your division or I will run it for you."

HELLS YEAH! I knew right then exactly how I was going to handle anybody who got in my way!

During a time period when I had no Chief, the EDMC fully supported me in that role. And one of my favorite memories was a particular division officer (a POS, by the way) I had who evidently thought otherwise. He told me "There is no such thing as day-after-duty". (He was talking about the assumption that some people had that the day after a full duty day was automatically a day of liberty. It wasn't and that wasn't how I treated it. Early liberty is EARNED and is based on the needs of the division/command as well.)

I said "Noted". (God, how officers HATE that!) He gave me a ration over this and I told him "I said 'noted'. That means I have heard and taken note of what you've said."

During quarters that morning, I told my division (while the division officer was there) "There is no such thing as day-after-duty any more." The groans started.

When quarters was over and the Div-O had left, I had the division muster pierside next to the dumpsters where we'd be away from everybody else.


Just to let you guys know, there never has been "day-after-duty". There's only ever been "liberty" and I control early liberty. Liberty is based on your qualification status, your collateral duty status, the maintenance load, training, exams, etc. If you are not delinquent in qualifications, if I don't need you for work, if your collateral duties are all up to speed and so forth, then I don't have a problem with early liberty for those who had duty the day before. But I am the one who has always determined this. So I don't want to hear anybody saying they're "day-after" at quarters any more. What I want to hear is "I've got an appointment to get my car serviced." "I've got to take my pet goat to the vet today." "I need to be at the house for the cable guy."

SO, with that in mind, tomorrow is Thursday and I've decided Friday will be a uniform inspection day. If you have duty tomorrow, get your uniform ready for inspection today. For everybody else, tomorrow will be rope-yarn and the ONLY people I want to see at quarters are the duty section people not on watch.


Quarters the next morning was very entertaining, watching my Div-O blow up.

Where is everybody? (Only me and one other guy was there, the second duty section guy being on watch at the time.)

I gave them all rope-yarn for today because we're having a uniform inspection at quarters tomorrow.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT!

Sir, you fail to understand who runs this division. It's my division and I'll run it how I see fit. If you have a problem with that you can take it up with the Engineer and the EDMC. Also, if you don't understand the fine naval tradition of rope-yarn, I invite you to look it up. And, since we're having a uniform inspection tomorrow, your uniform had better be squared away too because I'm not having MY division officer come to the inspection looking like crap.
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That was the real navy, which I largely escaped and was apart.
 
Derek8404 said:
Been in at least 6yrs, fat, can’t shoot, doesn’t know how to shave, never deployed…..WTF are you telling potential recruits to convince them to join? The chow is really good?
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That and you can can gender reassignment surgery, free Zoloft Paxil (or what ever the med if the month is) and then apply for VA disability, because a chief/ds yelled at you
 
I have a friend in the AF, a senior master sgt., retiring next month at 22 years. He said 13 eligible E8s for E9 in his community (he is pararescue), only 2 want to be considered, both support/neither are operators, everyone else is opting to retire. He said "huge culture problem and a loss in confidence in the chain of command."
 
Chuckman said:
I have a friend in the AF, a senior master sgt., retiring next month at 22 years. He said 13 eligible E8s for E9 in his community (he is pararescue), only 2 want to be considered, both support/neither are operators, everyone else is opting to retire. He said "huge culture problem and a loss in confidence in the chain of command."
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One of my brothers retired from the Air Force with 22 1/2 years. They offered him E-9, but he told them they had their chance more than once.
 
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