Do you want to share your sources with the rest of the class?
Wrong address, and another innocent American dies
- Thread starter SPM
- Start date
- Replies 366
- Views 14,763
georgel
Behind Every Blade of Grass
Charter Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
On the lighter side. Yeah, my experience in doing deliveries reflect yours. Went into one, nice, neighborhood and you couldn't see addresses anywhere. I remember thinking, I hope no one here has to call 911.
It was 36ft from the wrong door to the right one. Apparentlythe correct door had a large P on it for Pearman, the suspect they were looking for.
Last edited:
I remember neighborhoods like that.
If there was a question, we'd either try to get it resolved at the time of the order (people on the phones generally knew what areas were sketchy on identification) or we'd call from our car phones. (Heh! Car phones! Did I date myself there, or what?)
Also, I bought myself a big*ss spot light I could plug into my cigarette lighter which gave me 1.25 MILLION candlepower (I'm hearing Dr. Evil in my head right now), which was the most powerful spot light I could find at the time. If I had ANY problems, I didn't have a problem lighting up the neighborhood to find the location.
Few people got upset with me the entire time I did that...and if they did? Well, at the time in my life (working two jobs to pay off tens of thousands in debt on my way to a divorce), I just didn't give a f*ck. And I had no problem telling people to mark their house/trailer number plainly so it could be seen.
Someone comes pounding on my door at midnight , I damn well am going to have a gun in my hand if I choose to answer. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't just knock and go away if I decided just to roll over and pull a pillow over my head.
This reminds me of another thread. Wrong address, homeowner shot.
A different time and place, but the same response from you.
@B00ger have you silenced the crickets yet?
When discussing anything that could be a possible mistake by the police with JR Green I point you to:
Matthew 7:6
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Typical response from JR, the police never do wrong in his eyes.This reminds me of another thread. Wrong address, homeowner shot.
A different time and place, but the same response from you.
@B00ger have you silenced the crickets yet?
Credibility is about believability. Credibility does not depend just on honesty, but also on competence. The officers were not competent enough to verify they were at the right address. The officers were not competent enough to verify the identity of their subject and de-escalate the situation as warranted. Therefore, I question the credibility of their statements about this encounter.
Again, I will say that I make no assumption (because I have no information) about whether the officers involved have encountered a man holding a gun before without shooting him. Note that the officers in this case are reported to have said that he POINTED it at them, not just that he was holding a gun, as you've stated.
That said, we often hear, and are told fairly recently at this link http://www.guns.com/2017/02/18/surv...e-their-service-weapons-than-americans-think/
that a solid majority of officers never fire their gun outside of training over their career. And of those who do, most do not fire it in more than one encounter. So if it is reasonable to think that an officer would fire on someone who is pointing a gun at them, then it seems reasonable to think that a solid majority of officers have not ever had a gun pointed at them. And yes, I do know there are plenty of cases where officers do not fire even though someone points a gun at them, and I truly admire their restraint and ability to read the situation at great risk to themselves.
Now it was you who brought common sense into this conversation, and you didn't answer my question:
Would you agree that it is common sense for police to anticipate that an innocent homeowner might come to the door armed when they are summoned to the door in the night?
Here's another while you are at it:
Is it common sense for a homeowner with no active warrants to open his door to the police, point a gun at them, and not lower it (assuming they properly identified themselves)?
I try to always give the police the benefit of the doubt because I know they deal with the worst of society on a regular basis, but there have been enough cases of bad shootings and lying police, and with this situation being caused by a police error, that I can't do that. I don't understand why you seem so comfortable blaming the victim unless you have additional facts to share.
@jrgreen so if a police man out of his district passes you going 100 + mph with no lights or siren on and no reason to be speeding that fast, is that ok? Do you report him on it? What if same officer pulls you later for speeding? I merely ask because LEO's are held to the same laws as every other plain citizen. They should take their job and realizability seriously and many do but there are some that do not. Yes the job allows them to take the very freedoms away from the criminal element and protect the innocent. That being said if you knocked on the wrong door say @B00ger 's door at 2 am and he answered the door with a gun and you shot him would you get a free pass??
Last edited:
Why would you think that I would be OK with speeding cops? Have I ever made the slightest statement that would make you believe that I think Cops were above the law? You're going to need to show your work here.
As far as knocking on the wrong door what was the crime?, the policy violation? Do you know of any law that allows you to point your gun at ANYONE for knocking at your door?
Did that homeowner also point a gun at police? Then yes my response would be the same. I don't have situational ethics.This reminds me of another thread. Wrong address, homeowner shot.
A different time and place, but the same response from you.
@B00ger have you silenced the crickets yet?
So it's OK for people to point guns at you then? It would be a crime for you to defend yourself too? Or do cops not have the same rights as you?
I'm supposed to live on this site? I got stuff to do.
like I said there could have been any number of reasons to knock at that door, the resident's response is what called the play.
And you (and many here) have thought about the possibility which puts you ahead of a good part of the population. I admit I have a camera to see who is at my door ... I'd never step in front of my door looking out. If they identify themselves as LEOs I can see what's up but still I'd not stand to the side and proceed with caution based on them being LEOs. Other situations will be handled based on what I see on from that camera and other variables but I have considered ... but there is always a chance for a wildcard variable to pop up. I will say that my idea is keep a locked door between my family and any unknown at the door. We all should consider what we'd do with a knock at 11:30 am or pm ... someone knocking and saying "Police, open the door" ... and such. Where I live I'd say 95% of the time a knock at the door at 11:30pm is not something I will rush to answer 'cause it ain't something I'd be expecting and gathering my wits only would take a few seconds and I'd like to at least try to make a decision rather than reaction.
At two am, the cops were trespassing by being at the wrong place, the guy answered the door with a gun, he was killed by the cops. Their mistake in not confirming the address cost the man his life.he was dong what wrong???? At what point does someone need to be held accountable for the mans death? Is it ok to allow Pd to skate by with an oops ? Such as with my speeding example, they usually don't police each other so they get a free pass, it begins to develop a mentality to some that they are above the law:
Last edited:
This guy wasn't ducking anything he was probably sitting on his couch watching TV, before the knock happened.
Dale Gribble
Can't starve us out; Can't make us run
Charter Member
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
I always answer the door, day or night, with a weapon and a dog...guess we're both screwed.
Guess folks on their own f*cking property, in their own f*cking house answering their own f*cking door need to start doing so with their hands on their head and in a submissive position.
All this freedom and liberty we have is f*cking AWESOME.
Guess folks on their own f*cking property, in their own f*cking house answering their own f*cking door need to start doing so with their hands on their head and in a submissive position.
All this freedom and liberty we have is f*cking AWESOME.
Last edited:
If you're insane enough to believe the police just shot some random guy through the door you are wasting your time.The claim they are making is he pointing a gun and yet they shot through the door?
"Linares said her husband went to the door to see what was happening outside. That's when she heard gunshots and by the time she reached her husband, he was already dead.
"Bullet holes suggest they shot through the door," Wells said."
B00ger is exactly right. I hesitated wasting my breath on you yet again but I was foolish.
A much more likely reason for bullet holes in the door was that he was standing in front of the door when he was shot.
Dale Gribble
Can't starve us out; Can't make us run
Charter Member
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
Last edited:
Well yes, my understanding of NC law is that it is okay for someone to point (and fire) a gun at me if I am presenting them with a threat of death or great bodily harm.
And yes, it would be a crime for me to 'defend' myself because I was the instigator.
Is my understanding of the law incorrect?
If officers have the same rights as me (and it seems they actually have more) then shouldn't they have the same accountability as me?
1. The cops weren't trespassing.
2. Their mistake cost the man nothing. His actions cost him his life.
3. Police police other police all the time. How else would you ever know when one did wrong?
4. The mentality that some are above the law exists only in your, and a few other, fevered minds. Minds that can easily ignore logic and common sense.
Are you saying that by knocking on the guys door the police were presenting the guy with the threat of death or great bodily harm?
I think you have it backwards. The guy pointing the gun at them was the threat. I'm going to let you guys have this thread because logic seems to have no effect on your opinions.
First of all, why did you bring up and keep on referring to the police knocking on the door? As I've gone back to read them, neither the linked article nor a previous article linked from there say that they knocked, just that the owner went to the door.
And no, I was just answering your questions about when it was okay to have a gun pointed at you and police vs private rights, although I do think this man could have perceived a lethal threat (which indeed turned out to be the case).
Your definition of logic is interesting. Is it logical for you to be injecting information that doesn't seem to have been reported and also completely accepting the reported police statements in this case?
Last edited:
Dale Gribble
Can't starve us out; Can't make us run
Charter Member
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
And even if he did come to the door pointing a gun at them they are still guilty of murder.
He was in his home, he was not a criminal, he had committed no crimes, and they came to his home bearing firearms and being aggressive. He was defending himself and his family from from men with guns that had no right to be there. PERIOD. And they murdered him.
Just because they are law enforcement does not mean they are God.
Well, if they are on official business to arrest someone, but go to the wrong house, invading the innocent homeowners curtilage to affect an improper arrest, I would call that trespassing. Everything after that follows from that first offense.
georgel
Behind Every Blade of Grass
Charter Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
Lots of conflicting info now. Attorneys hired a private investigaton firm to look at the scene and surmise the door was closed when the rounds stuck it. Yet, there was supposedly a dog that ran out and "attacked" the officers. How did he get out if the door was closed? According to police accounts I've read, an officer saw a gun pointing out the door, but none have said it was pointed at an officer. There is an account that the occupant looked out the window and saw police cars. If he saw police cars or if he heard them announce "POLICE!" why would answer the door armed? A reasonable man wouldn't do that much less point a gun at them, right? He wasn't guilty of anything. Unless, he thought it was ICE and they were coming to deport him. 
Another interesting question is exactly at what point did the police realize they were at the wrong house? Because, presumably, up through securing the scene, after the shooting, they thought they had bagged their suspect. He was still presumed to be the bad guy. At what point were the accounts told, before or after the discovery of the wrong address?
Another interesting question is exactly at what point did the police realize they were at the wrong house? Because, presumably, up through securing the scene, after the shooting, they thought they had bagged their suspect. He was still presumed to be the bad guy. At what point were the accounts told, before or after the discovery of the wrong address?
Last edited:
Oneofsix
Fur-bearing mammal
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
Pearls before swine fellas, he'll always defend the LEO no matter how effed up their actions are.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk
The police went to the wrong address, an address that was not listed on the warrant. The police had no official business to be at that address, that to me seems like trespassing.
The sad part of current society is to pass the responsibility buck to next person, nobody want to take their mistake like a man anymore.
The Pj hit squads of the current era are ruthless.
All joking aside my question to JR Green is if the cops had NOT knocked on his door the man would have been asleep until his alarm woke him up or he had to go pee in the night. He was in his own home with no criminal activity going on. They came and awakened him in the night he had a moral and ethical obligation to protect his family and himself. He did not know who was at the door. Like I have said previously there are several key facts missing such as footage from body cams, but I ask you again at what point does LEO bear responsibility for their mistakes and actions?
All joking aside my question to JR Green is if the cops had NOT knocked on his door the man would have been asleep until his alarm woke him up or he had to go pee in the night. He was in his own home with no criminal activity going on. They came and awakened him in the night he had a moral and ethical obligation to protect his family and himself. He did not know who was at the door. Like I have said previously there are several key facts missing such as footage from body cams, but I ask you again at what point does LEO bear responsibility for their mistakes and actions?
Lots of conflicting info now. Attorneys hired a private investigaton firm to look at the scene and surmise the door was closed when the rounds stuck it. Yet, there was supposedly a dog that ran out and "attacked" the officers. How did he get out if the door was closed? According to police accounts I've read, an officer saw a gun pointing out the door, but none have said it was pointed at an officer. There is an account that the occupant looked out the window and saw police cars. If he saw police cars or if he heard them announce "POLICE!" why would answer the door armed? A reasonable man wouldn't do that much less point a gun at them, right? He wasn't guilty of anything. Unless, he thought it was ICE and they were coming to deport him.
Another interesting question is exactly at what point did the police realize they were at the wrong house? Because, presumably, up through securing the scene, after the shooting, they thought they had bagged their suspect. He was still presumed to be the bad guy. At what point were the accounts told, before or after the discovery of the wrong address?
Just because someone hollers police, doesn't mean that they are. What better way to gain entry into your house evidently, than to yell police as your door is kicked in.
Z
Zedhound
Guest
that's so funny ill skip over how you used a picture with ceres in there