1911's Galore

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I was at the Hardin County courthouse for most of the day. Just so happened they were having jury selection for a pretty high profile case coming up. The place was full of police officers, plain clothes and uniform. The uniform guys were carrying Glocks. Nearly every one of the plain clothes guys were carrying 1911's. One guy was carrying a Beretta and one was carrying a Glock 19X, all the others were carrying some version of the 1911. I was surprised but, this is Texas, after all.
 
Were the plain clothed officers detectives? Detectives seem to have an affinity with single stacks.
Why would any L/E on the streets carry a single stack anything with a neutered round count in todays world??
Are they THAT good with the single stack that they don't need the additional rounds??
 
Hashknife said:
Were the plain clothed officers detectives? Detectives seem to have an affinity with single stacks.
Why would any L/E on the streets carry a single stack anything with a neutered round count in todays world??
Are they THAT good with the single stack that they don't need the additional rounds??
Click to expand...

Etruett said:
Just shows once they prove they have any sense at all, they get a real gun and give the plastic starter pistol back.
Wait til you meet a Captain or higher, he will probably be totin a N Frame Smith
Click to expand...

I've seen some data backing up the idea that exchanges of gunfire where more than 8-10rds total (ie going both ways), are more a result of one or both participant(s) firing to slide lock, than anything to do with a need for additional rounds. in other words the outcome of the fight is typically decided within that first 10rds total.

Calling back to Texas, but when I lived in Brazoria county a significant number of the deputies carried 1911s, because they could, and as one guy put it "(they were) more at risk of getting charged by a feral hog, than getting shot by some meth head. Tweakers can't shoot for shit."
 
www.texasranger.org

Firearms - Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum

Historic Firearms Follow the links below to read articles about historic firearms. Early Texas Rangers (1823-1871) Handguns 1847 Colt Walker 1851 Colt Navy 1860 Colt Army 1861 Colt Navy Colt Dragoon Revolvers Longarms 1860 Henry Rifle Edwin Wesson Rifle, Capt. Jack Hays Colt revolvers with...
www.texasranger.org
 
Etruett said:
Just shows once they prove they have any sense at all, they get a real gun and give the plastic starter pistol back.
Wait til you meet a Captain or higher, he will probably be totin a N Frame Smith
Click to expand...
Be sure to check out the 1911 links below! Particularly M.T. “Lone Wolf” Gonzaullas’ custom pair. Both had cut-away trigger guards AND the grip safety was locked in the “fire” position 😱😱😱. He lived to be 86 and clanked every step he took!
Button Pusher said:
www.texasranger.org

Firearms - Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum

Historic Firearms Follow the links below to read articles about historic firearms. Early Texas Rangers (1823-1871) Handguns 1847 Colt Walker 1851 Colt Navy 1860 Colt Army 1861 Colt Navy Colt Dragoon Revolvers Longarms 1860 Henry Rifle Edwin Wesson Rifle, Capt. Jack Hays Colt revolvers with...
www.texasranger.org
Click to expand...
 
Detritus said:
I've seen some data backing up the idea that exchanges of gunfire where more than 8-10rds total (ie going both ways), are more a result of one or both participant(s) firing to slide lock, than anything to do with a need for additional rounds. in other words the outcome of the fight is typically decided within that first 10rds total.
Click to expand...
Haha, so I expect it's even more common to be solved in the first 6 rounds. No need for anything more than a revolver, a real man's gun!

Calling back to Texas, but when I lived in Brazoria county a significant number of the deputies carried 1911s, because they could, and as one guy put it "(they were) more at risk of getting charged by a feral hog, than getting shot by some meth head. Tweakers can't shoot for shit."
Click to expand...
So they would rather wear jewelry (pretty stainless and wood) than a more effective fighting tool. There is zero reason to carry a 1911 over a modern design other than asthetics and being one of the cool kids. It's a valid reason, I even bought a IWB holster to see if I could handle carrying a full size (didn't work out), but I realized I would be impacting my capability by doing so.

I could probably survive a car accident without my seat belt on, but I know if it's severe enough it could save my life. I'm just glad it's not "cool" to not wear a seat belt or I would be sorely tempted. :)
 
The majority of Texas Rangers nowdays carry either a Sig or a 2011 for a reason.
Capacity....
The same exact reason they upgraded from a wheel gun to a semi-auto back in the day...

A 1911 is a fine mechanical, machined marvel, but it is nothing more than a Model T in todays hi-cap world. We have evolved. So has the crime element.

Anybody want to bring your single stack to Battery Oaks or PHA and run some drills???
 
Plastic is where it's at nowadays, but considering the 1911 nothing more than jewelry or an antique is doing it a real disservice. There's a reason a lot of the plastic guns strive to have a 1911-like trigger and ergonomics.

I never understand why people want to make it binary: if you can shoot what you carry, then carry it.
 
Chuckman said:
There's a reason a lot of the plastic guns strive to have a 1911-like trigger and ergonomics.
Click to expand...
Hence, the 2011... The best of both worlds!

I agree with @Chuckman... Shoot what you shoot well. Targets will valadate your skillset with your chosen platform.

There is a single mechanical factor that will always give the 1911/2011 triggers an edge over the plastic striker fired gun triggers.
Anybody want to take a guess?
 
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I have been out of the service a few minutes now, and away from the door-kickers a wee longer, and we were the last unit to still use 1911s as the SOCOM guys who also used them were transitioning to Glocks. In competitions our guys did as well/better than others using non-1911s (against guys using the M9 and Glocks). It's all in the training, not the tool. Well, in most cases. You aren't going to shoot a M4 to 1,200 yards and the guy with the M40A5 or M24 will fare better.

I don't know if recon has transitioned to Glocks or still using the 1911. I will reach out to see 'cause it's piqued my interest.
 
It sounds like they gave up a wee bit of trigger advantage and maybe some ergonomics for added capacity...(?)

From an armorer standpoint, the Glocks are probably easier to keep up with too.
 
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Hashknife said:
It sounds like they gave up a wee bit of trigger advantage and maybe some ergonomics for added capacity...(?)

From an armorer standpoint, the Glocks are probably easier to keep up with too.
Click to expand...

Recon kept the 1911 over the M9 because it's a better gun for their mission. But the MEU(SOC) 1911s, while great, were old (frames, not barrels or parts), and no two were exactly the same. They never were going to stand the test of time after the military as a whole moved away from the 1911. So yeah, over time it became an armorer's Achilles heel.

When the Corps stood up Det 1 as a proof of concept unit they had Kimber 1911s which were actually more problematic than our beat-to-hell MEU(SOC) 1911s, and they kept them until Colt got the contract (M45). By that time they were in SOCOM and they all transitioned to Glock: per-unit cost, maintainability, cheaper ammo, additional capacity, etc.

Recon is a Marine Corps unit, not a MARSOC unit, so funding is different. I don't know if they have transitioned away from the 1911s and going to plastic, be it Glock or the SIG.
 
I assume Recons mission was better served with the heavier caliber, or maybe faster shot splits with the 1911 platform...(?)
Just guesses...
Form follows function....


A really bad-ass "built" 1911 requires a machinist to keep running properly. The plastic guns only need a part changer.
 
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@Chuckman , I think I remember reading that recon had funding or a contract for 2011's about a year or 2 ago. Kinda fuzzy though but is was one of the Marine "special" units.
 
Hashknife said:
I assume Recons mission was better served with the heavier caliber, or maybe faster shot splits with the 1911 platform...(?)
Just guesses...
Form follows function....


A really bad-ass "built" 1911 requires a machinist to keep running properly. The plastic guns only need a part changer.
Click to expand...

Well, Marines are great at keeping something just out of 'tradition.' They are all ready to throw something away, then get told, "well, you don't need that anyway," then they will cling to it for life.

Our armorers realized that the more 'tuned up' the gun was, the more prone to malfunction. They ran loose and ran wet, and they were very reliable...but they were also being maintained and tooled frequently.
 
Hashknife said:
Hence, the 2011... The best of both worlds!

I agree with @Chuckman... Shoot what you shoot well. Targets will valadate your skillset with your chosen platform.

There is a single mechanical factor that will always give the 1911/2011 triggers an edge over the plastic striker fired gun triggers.
Anybody want to take a guess?
Click to expand...
a single factor?
less flex in the metal parts than the plastic parts, less linkages between your finger and the sear, hammer spring already preloaded as opposed to having to load it with the trigger, you can disable the 80 drop safety or just not have one in a 70...
which one were you looking for?
 
DrScaryGuy said:
a single factor?
less flex in the metal parts than the plastic parts, less linkages between your finger and the sear, hammer spring already preloaded as opposed to having to load it with the trigger, you can disable the 80 drop safety or just not have one in a 70...
which one were you looking for?
Click to expand...
None of those...
 
Johnny said:
@Chuckman , I think I remember reading that recon had funding or a contract for 2011's about a year or 2 ago. Kinda fuzzy though but is was one of the Marine "special" units.
Click to expand...

I just heard back from a buddy, recon is still using the M45 (Colt), have moved on from the old bargain bin MEU(SOC) 1911s. MARSOC did use the M45, they went to Glock 19.
 
Back to my statement about why would any L/E carry a single stack anything ( low capacity )

Look at the world in which they operate and who they go up against...




ANTIFA ARMED.jpg
 
DrScaryGuy said:
a single factor?
less flex in the metal parts than the plastic parts, less linkages between your finger and the sear, hammer spring already preloaded as opposed to having to load it with the trigger, you can disable the 80 drop safety or just not have one in a 70...
which one were you looking for?
Click to expand...
You are thinking in the correct direction, but there is a single factor that encompasses all of that.
 
wheelgun_man said:
Be sure to check out the 1911 links below! Particularly M.T. “Lone Wolf” Gonzaullas’ custom pair. Both had cut-away trigger guards AND the grip safety was locked in the “fire” position 😱😱😱. He lived to be 86 and clanked every step he took!
Click to expand...
The engravings on the side say it all for the pinned grip and chopped guard.

"Texas Ranger Captain Manuel T. Gonzaullas enjoyed a long and illustrious career in Texas law enforcement, working in the oilfields and along the Texas-Mexico border. He used this pair of Colt 1911A1 Government Model pistols during his Ranger service. The pistols are factory engraved with gold inlay, gold monogrammed initials on the right, and a longhorn on the left of the ivory grips. Both pistols feature cutaway trigger guards, which is said to have been a signature feature of Gonzaullas’ guns, as well as other unique custom details. Each is inscribed near the trigger with the motto "Never Draw Me Without Cause, Nor Shield Me With Dishonor"."
 
Hashknife said:
Hence, the 2011... The best of both worlds!

There is a single mechanical factor that will always give the 1911/2011 triggers an edge over the plastic striker fired gun triggers.
Anybody want to take a guess?
Click to expand...
The trigger goes directly rearward and interfaces directly with the sear, the "trigger pull" is the amount of force required to pivot the sear nose out of the hammer hooks (plus a tiny amount of friction,)

I can't think of any polymer gun, especially a striker fired one with a linkage that mechanically simple.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
I never interviewed a man that had been involved in a shooting that said..I had too much ammo......Clint Smith
Click to expand...
These days, would you feel under gunned if you strolled into MB with a single stack 1911?

Definately a reason for those hi-cap Carolina Hammers you tote with you...🤔
( not to mention 2 hi-cap pocket rockets 😃)


no such thing as "too much ammo"
Clint Smith is right....

Capacity.........
 
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