Buffalo, NY mass shooting 10 dead

NCFubar said:
Honestly … my little compact 9mm EDC vs a long gun especially one that is already being actively used means I am outgunned and behind the 8-ball already. Backed into a corner fight like the 3rd monkey on Noah’s ramp with the rain pouring down … otherwise fall back and re-evaluate your options is better that rush in stupid. Like Dan said above in this scenario with being out gunned and him I’m body armor if possible flank or rear ambush is about your best bet to overcome the disadvantages. In real world and with rounds flying … I hate to say it but I am not bullet proof, I have no badge or delusions of grandeur or such so my first response would be get anyone who is with me and my butt to safety. Yeah, it is kinda chicken but I’ve gotten to the point I know my limits and prudent choices vs Billy Bad Ass knee jerk ones are tending to look better.
Click to expand...
I feel the same way, which is why I said "ideally" -- most of us would not actually react in the ideal way. And what exactly is "ideal" obviously depends on where you are, who's with you, what you know, etc.
 
Last edited:
Radar said:
but it all happened in what 6 minutes from start to end
Click to expand...
Likely FAR less time. Out of 6:47 seconds of video I've seen, all but the last 39 seconds of it is the nutter driving around. In the 39 seconds of video after this sicko stops his vehicle and exits ... he drops 7 people. The camera angle doesn't tilt in a way that suggests he's aiming the rifle using a decent cheek-weld, and he's pretty loose with his ammunition -- so I think he was point shooting at close range.

Note: He spends 10 rounds on 4 people, then puts 5 into the building glass trying to get a guy who he saw run inside ... then 2 more into already-down people ... for a total of 17 before he enters the building. That all happens in ~10 seconds, mostly while stationary, but he does do some firing on the move when VERY close to targets on his way into and just after entering the building. Not a pro, but he had definitely trained.


Button Pusher said:
The video was disturbing to watch but I did so to learn from it should I ever end up in a situation like that. The first woman must have thought what is going on, nowhere to retreat and three rounds to her. He fired several rounds into the glass front windows, most likely to keep folks inside so he could hunt them down. Once convicted he needs to be put inside an industiral vacuum chamber and have the red button pressed.
Click to expand...
I watched it for a similar reason: to get a sense of what such a scenario might be like so that I could better prepare myself for it if I ever find myself in something similar. My takeaway from the footage was with that much lead flying in that short a timespan, the best moves are escape/evade or, if not possible, find good cover and hope for an opening. I'd rather be a decent witness than a dead 'hero'...
 
Last edited:
Several people in this incident apparently ducked into freezers and lived to tell the tale. So hiding in a smart place seems like a good strategy, unless the shooter has an extended period of time to walk around and look for victims besides the ones running around in plain sight. Which probably won't happen in an urban area where the police will rapidly show up and start putting pressure on the shooter.
 
holdenarm said:
On an apolitical note, can I ask: if you were CCing in that store, what would have been the ideal way to react in that situation?
Click to expand...

No idea, man.

Tough situation, there. Got a dude armed with a rifle and you’ve got no idea whether or not how good he is with it, if he’s sporting plates or if he’s acting alone.

What you do know is there is a person or persons running loose in the store and they are shooting folks.

If you cut and ran, I don’t think there’s anyone with sense that would hold it against you. If you do stay and try to stop what’s happening, chances are pretty decent you’re gonna get hurt pretty bad or either die.

Guess you’d have to decide which death is worse.
 
Dale Gribble said:
No idea, man.

Tough situation, there. Got a dude armed with a rifle and you’ve got no idea whether or not how good he is with it, if he’s sporting plates or if he’s acting alone.

What you do know is there is a person or persons running loose in the store and they are shooting folks.

If you cut and ran, I don’t think there’s anyone with sense that would hold it against you. If you do stay and try to stop what’s happening, chances are pretty decent you’re gonna get hurt pretty bad or either die.

Guess you’d have to decide which death is worse.
Click to expand...
I agree there is really no way to say what you would do. It also depends on who is with you. Are you going to play hero with your kids with you? Or better do you feel that In order to save them you have to do so? There really is a lot to make you think about with this one. Situational awareness would be a good thing to have any time you go into a place like this. Decide where you can run for cover and concealment. Where are exits & how are they in relation to the stor and your parking place. Of course the best laid plans go out the window at first contact.

Recently there was a shooting at a local restaurant near me. I have thought sbout that scenario a lot recently about what would I do. Would I shoot? Would I cover, try to draw the shooters attention to let my wife and kids run. I can’t answer it because the more I ponder on it I think of hiccups in my plan and thought process.
 
Last edited:
Dale Gribble said:
No idea, man.

Tough situation, there. Got a dude armed with a rifle and you’ve got no idea whether or not how good he is with it, if he’s sporting plates or if he’s acting alone.

What you do know is there is a person or persons running loose in the store and they are shooting folks.

If you cut and ran, I don’t think there’s anyone with sense that would hold it against you. If you do stay and try to stop what’s happening, chances are pretty decent you’re gonna get hurt pretty bad or either die.

Guess you’d have to decide which death is worse.
Click to expand...
#1 priority is getting your loved ones to safety. You don't get a pension or a parade for dying to a lunatic.
 
NC Rob said:
#1 priority is getting your loved ones to safety.
Click to expand...
Radar said:
I agree there is really no way to say what you would do. It also depends on who is with you.
Click to expand...

That changes the whole situation, for me, anyhow…wife and/or kids are with me? Yeah…no guesswork in that…I would do my best to safely get us the hell outta there as quickly as possible and get as far away from there as we can get.

Go back after everyone is to safety? Not a chance, because by the time you get back, guess who else will probably be there? You go running back into the store with a weapon in your hand and your ass is going to be deader than fried chicken.
 
Another thing to think about in that situation…

If you do have loved ones with you and decide ya’ll are shagging ass out an alternate exit, I definitely wouldn’t let my wife or kids go out that door before me. If the folks inside ain’t working by themselves, they may have others waiting outside the exits to start dropping folks as they run out. Grab a broom, mop handle or anything else around that’s got some length to it, stand to the side and quickly push that door open first.
 
Dale Gribble said:
Another thing to think about in that situation…

If you do have loved ones with you and decide ya’ll are shagging ass out an alternate exit, I definitely wouldn’t let my wife or kids go out that door before me. If the folks inside ain’t working by themselves, they may have others waiting outside the exits to start dropping folks as they run out. Grab a broom, mop handle or anything else around that’s got some length to it, stand to the side and quickly push that door open first.
Click to expand...
Certainly makes you think about things for sure when you analyze events like this. Gun, tactics, capacity of gun etc etc. I have for sometime now carried a spare mag but that’s another thing to consider
 
Made me wonder if the 158gr .357 magnum from a 4” Python would do anything more than piss off a shooter with lvl 4 plates?
If it would be ineffective, I’d rather know the reaction prior to trying it out in the real world😳
 
Amanda4461 said:
Made me wonder if the 158gr .357 magnum from a 4” Python would do anything more than piss off a shooter with lvl 4 plates?
If it would be ineffective, I’d rather know the reaction prior to trying it out in the real world😳
Click to expand...

Don‘t aim for the plates... pelvic girdle/thighs if you suspect armor...femoral artery is no joke...

My fear having watched the video, is the speed with which it all happened... the killer moved so fast it rivaled the pro’s from “Heat”... 😳
 
For the first few victims, there was no reasonable belief that they could have done anything. Dude jumps out of a car and goes ape immediately. No warning. So for them, having 5 pistols and 2900 rounds of ammo wouldn’t help.

But I did notice that the folks insides reaction seemed to be “duck and cover”. Which didn’t work.

So my take away is to freaking run. If you are with your clan, MOVE. And keep moving. Don’t try to lay down on the floor, hide behind a corner. Move away from the sound as fast as you can.
 
Dale Gribble said:
Another thing to think about in that situation…

If you do have loved ones with you and decide ya’ll are shagging ass out an alternate exit, I definitely wouldn’t let my wife or kids go out that door before me. If the folks inside ain’t working by themselves, they may have others waiting outside the exits to start dropping folks as they run out. Grab a broom, mop handle or anything else around that’s got some length to it, stand to the side and quickly push that door open first.
Click to expand...
Forward Observer has, for some time now, been reporting on far left groups doing various forms of training. What happens when the day comes that it’s not a one off person, but a semi trained team of six or twelve that decide to go on a rampage? They do adapt.
 
noway2 said:
been reporting on far left groups doing various forms of training.
Click to expand...

Which also wonders what The Brandon Admin has planned for some of The Replacement Citizens as well.

It's still happening and it is by design, period.


From the comments: Imagine how organized this whole operation is. The corruption is frightening.
Click to expand...


Plane carrying more than 150 migrants lands in NYC: Fox News exclusive​

May 15, 2022
https://www.foxnews.com/person/j/lawrence-jones

Biden secretly flying underage migrants into NY in dead of night ​

10.18.21
nypost.com

Biden secretly flying underage migrants into NY in dead of night

Planeloads of immigrants are being flown into New York under the cover of darkness in an effort by Biden’s administration to quietly resettle them.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
B00ger said:
For the first few victims, there was no reasonable belief that they could have done anything. Dude jumps out of a car and goes ape immediately. No warning. So for them, having 5 pistols and 2900 rounds of ammo wouldn’t help.

But I did notice that the folks insides reaction seemed to be “duck and cover”. Which didn’t work.

So my take away is to freaking run. If you are with your clan, MOVE. And keep moving. Don’t try to lay down on the floor, hide behind a corner. Move away from the sound as fast as you can.
Click to expand...
I thought the same thing. Tops is not some small grocery store and cant believe that they didn’t hear the gunfire from outside and run away from the entrance Deeper into the store. That may have saved a few. Is it possible that the gunfire was muffled or they didn’t expect the guy to come in shooting?
I would hope I would be smart enough to run to the back of store and find a rear exit. Not sure I like the odds of going toe to toe with a guy wearing plates and shooting a long gun while I have no plates and a handgun. Rather run till I’m stuck and then set up ambush if cornered.
 
Some years back I took a handful of classes in Illinois. The instructor made mention of a shooting he'd studied where a concealed carry licensee was shot and permanently injured. He'd heard the shooting and found space for cover/ambush. The shooter by chance walked right into the trap. Concealed carry guy had the drop on him, but then he saw the shooter was a teenager not much older than his own kids and lost his will to stop the threat. Now he sits in a wheelchair to get around and continues to second guess himself.

To that I'll repeat the suggestion about shooting for pelvic girdle. Most shooters would lose their will to fight right about the same time they lost their ability to stand. If he chose to keep fighting, he's pretty much a stationary target now. Plates and helmet or not, this will anchor a shooter quickly and should save lives.
 
Word is Google is going into users accounts and removing this shooters manifesto if it was saved to Google docs or any other service of theirs.

Good ol' policing of information, telling you what you can and can't read. Wonder what else they have been or will be removing from people's saved documents?
 
Is there anything in the video that actually shows or unequivocally ties the suspect to the shooting? I haven’t watched it, and likely won’t, but what screen grabs I have seen don’t show anything to prove who actually did the shooting.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Some years back I took a handful of classes in Illinois. The instructor made mention of a shooting he'd studied where a concealed carry licensee was shot and permanently injured. He'd heard the shooting and found space for cover/ambush. The shooter by chance walked right into the trap. Concealed carry guy had the drop on him, but then he saw the shooter was a teenager not much older than his own kids and lost his will to stop the threat. Now he sits in a wheelchair to get around and continues to second guess himself.

To that I'll repeat the suggestion about shooting for pelvic girdle. Most shooters would lose their will to fight right about the same time they lost their ability to stand. If he chose to keep fighting, he's pretty much a stationary target now. Plates and helmet or not, this will anchor a shooter quickly and should save lives.
Click to expand...
Yep, I think if that kid had one round hit flesh it would have been over. He prob didn’t even feel the rounds hit his vest because of the adrenaline or if he was on drugs.
 
WildBill said:
Word is Google is going into users accounts and removing this shooters manifesto if it was saved to Google docs or any other service of theirs.

Good ol' policing of information, telling you what you can and can't read. Wonder what else they have been or will be removing from people's saved documents?
Click to expand...
People should have learned from the NYP, Trump, and Parler episodes back in 2020 that if you care about your privacy that you need to dump Google.
I maintain a gmail account just for spam. Google can read my advertising. Anything important goes to a protonmail account. Duck Duck go for search. No more personal data for Google from me.
 
B00ger said:
But I did notice that the folks insides reaction seemed to be “duck and cover”. Which didn’t work.

So my take away is to freaking run. If you are with your clan, MOVE. And keep moving. Don’t try to lay down on the floor, hide behind a corner. Move away from the sound as fast as you can.
Click to expand...
THEY have been telling people for years to "be a good witness" and "call 911". THEY don't want you to do anything for yourself. THEY will blame a car if a person with a non-white skin color drives through a crowd.
The first victim didn't even recognize what she was looking at before she took a CNS hit. the next couple victims didn't have time to react before they got dropped. This is part of being in polite society - we have to be unready and often unaware to what's going on around us. There is no defense against this kind of rampage for the first few victims. That's why THEY react so poorly and want to ban the guns - deep down they know there's nothing that can be done to stop it short of radical things like gun banning.
 
cubrock said:
Is there anything in the video that actually shows or unequivocally ties the suspect to the shooting? I haven’t watched it, and likely won’t, but what screen grabs I have seen don’t show anything to prove who actually did the shooting.
Click to expand...

The face of the perp is visible in his rearview mirror several times while he's driving around. I'm no forensic expert, but I suspect there's enough there for positive ID.
 
There is only one reason to remove it from people's Google Docs. They are afraid someone smart, we have a few here on this forum, will dissect it line by line and write an essay about why it's fake.

I didn't hear anything about the manifesto being purged until people started discovering passages lifted from the NZ manifesto.
 
GeorgeBush said:
There is only one reason to remove it from people's Google Docs. They are afraid someone smart, we have a few here on this forum, will dissect it line by line and write an essay about why it's fake.

I didn't hear anything about the manifesto being purged until people started discovering passages lifted from the NZ manifesto.
Click to expand...

Around half of it seemed to be directly copied from the NZ shooter's manifesto. Most of the rest was boring, autism-grade research notes on what kind of gear to buy.

On a scale of zero to Ted Kaczynski, I give this manifesto two thumbs down. Would not read again or recommend.
 
This guy streamed the shooting on twitch. That was his first stream ever according to what I’ve read. He had 20 people watching live when it happened. Some people stream on twitch for years and don’t see double digit views. Somehow people knew it was going to go down and tuned in to watch. How they knew is what I want to know.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
I find it a bit strange that he used a full size A2 with irons...
Click to expand...
why? it works well. he was shooting close enough that just plain pointing the barrel around would have done the trick. minute of man accuracy on a 20" rifle barrel is good out to at least 20-30 yards without much practice. Heck, the first time I got a rifle I would practice just shouldering without sighting, then try to tilt my head over and see how close I was.
 
Bigdave0924 said:
This guy streamed the shooting on twitch. That was his first stream ever according to what I’ve read. He had 20 people watching live when it happened. Some people stream on twitch for years and don’t see double digit views. Somehow people knew it was going to go down and tuned in to watch. How they knew is what I want to know.
Click to expand...
What I read is he messaged the stream to somebody that has a following and that guy put up a link in his own stream.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
why? it works well. he was shooting close enough that just plain pointing the barrel around would have done the trick. minute of man accuracy on a 20" rifle barrel is good out to at least 20-30 yards without much practice. Heck, the first time I got a rifle I would practice just shouldering without sighting, then try to tilt my head over and see how close I was.
Click to expand...
For a guy that did some research, I just would have thought an M4 style would the choice, you have look harder to find an A2, compaired to an M4 which are every wear.
 
I'm sure most have seen this and some won't agree with this video, but we used this and similar for local businesses in my jurisdiction. Run, Hide, Fight doesn't include just laying on the floor or kneeling in the open.


 
Last edited:
I watched the video, and there is basically nothing those first people could have done. He did nothing strange (no crashing into cars in the lot or trying to run people over or anything that would say he was anything but another shopper in the lot) until he popped out and went all call-of-duty on people loading groceries into cars.
 
Jayne said:
I watched the video, and there is basically nothing those first people could have done. He did nothing strange (no crashing into cars in the lot or trying to run people over or anything that would say he was anything but another shopper in the lot) until he popped out and went all call-of-duty on people loading groceries into cars.
Click to expand...
If I see a guy riding around with a ballistic helmet on and a vest I'm going to start moving away from that vehicle. I think being aware of your surroundings and booking it are the most valuable lessons from this. You could see on their faces that they just couldn't process what they were seeing until he opened fire. Sad all the way around.
 
rdinatal said:
Below is my opinion only...

Another very small minority (white supremacist, which I believe he was) shakes the county and brings that small issue to the top. A reasonable person sees racism as small and not very affluent in society.
Click to expand...
<snip>

It's not the very small white supremacist minority that shakes the country, it's the libs that amplify their actual influence 100x via the mainstream media. Far from being the "biggest terrorist threat" to our country, they wouldn't even be on the radar if the media was unbiased. BLM and Antifa are both many times bigger and more violent.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
For a guy that did some research, I just would have thought an M4 style would the choice, you have look harder to find an A2, compaired to an M4 which are every wear.
Click to expand...
NY laws keep these from being "everywhere". He bought what he could find. The shop that sold it to him was quoted in the paper as only selling about 6 AR type rifles a year. The one he bought was what was on the shelf that fell into his price range.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom