Just what are the rules of this forum?

It seems people who break the “make an offer and back out” rule can easily be held accountable. Send PM screen shots. If it’s not quite breaking the rules but in bad taste and they do it all the time, at least there is documentation; mods can warn or outright ban after they seem to be habitually bad for the forum classifieds. Just my thoughts.
 
The idea that nothing is binding until everything (item, price, time, location, identification, authorization and quality check)* is binding will eventually become an issue. That phrasing essentially means the seller is free to do as he pleases.

The precedent has already been set in the example by @Carolinatlc. Why is OBO not allowed if the seller is only bound by his preferences and only after all of them have been satisfied?

Whatever direction the Owners decide to take with this issue is cool with me. I just want them to be sure they have considered the ramifications of this policy.

*I know the last three weren't listed above, but they have been ruled as valid reasons for not selling in our past.
 
Jim1392 said:
My feeling is that If I say "I'll take it" and we've worked out the details where, when, and you back out for a better offer I'll be reporting negative feedback and going to the Mods for a decision on your banning. I'm a little surprised at this attitude here that after we have an agreement that you can just take a better offer. I guess no one has read #4 in the sticky in the BST thread. I've sold a few things here I know I could have gotten more for but once we've made the deal you got it.

4. If you agree to a price, time and location, your word is your bond. Almost without exception, people acting in good faith are able to reach accommodation and achieve a positive transaction even if someone's car breaks down. HOWEVER - staff will not hesitate to take punitive measures (including temporary or permanent site ban) for not honoring your word. If you don't know what it means to keep your word, do not post in the classifieds.
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I hope I didn't give this impression. But I certainly didn't mean to. I would never back out ONCE I HAVE ACCEPTED an offer.

Rather, what I meant was I would be kind of picky as to which offer I would accept. And the offer I choose might not have anything to do with the chronological order in which they were made.... which (I think) was OP's impression.

This all seems pretty open and shut. If an offer has been ACCEPTED by a seller, that seller is duty bound to go through with it. But that seller is NOT duty bound to accept the first offer made, even if the offer meets the asking price. Time and logistics come into play here.

Here's where (in my view) it gets tricky. If the seller has a ton of details as to his/her terms in the ad, he is possibly getting into a grey area.

Here's the scenario.

"For sale. One slightly-used hand bazooka. Like new. Asking $1,750. Must show ID. FTF only at Lowe's parking lot in Greenville, NC on Tuesdays if it's not raining at precisely 3:17 p.m. You must drive a red car. You must have a beard. You must bring me a dozen glazed Krispy Kreme doughnuts."

If someone replies "I'll take it. I drive a red Corvette. I'll bring you two dozen doughnuts. My beard is glorious to behold. 3:15 is my favorite time of day."

Although technically the seller is still not legally bound to accept, I can see where a buyer might get pissed off a little.

But all of that was semantics and just for fun. Until an offer is ACCEPTED, you got nutn.

By the way, OP, how do you know you were the first offer anyway? Perhaps someone made an offer via PM without a public declaration.
 
fieldgrade said:
Not trying to be a Richard here, but I’m not sure what you read that suggests that. The founders of this site and a 1000 members left another site on December 16th 2016 right after the rug got pulled out from under them. We’ve been doing business this way since I joined this crowd eight years ago.

One thing has been clear all this time, if you bust a deal, you get the wheel. Nothing suggests differently. You must have just misinterpreted it.
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I have been around for 6 of those 8 years and things have changed. I know "I'll take it" used to have some standing and it is clear many others thought so also. How could that be if it wasn't true?

It isn't clear in the @Carolinatlc example. Seller agrees to item and price. Then busts the deal because he got a better offer, his stated reason. The buyer was acting in good faith in trying to setup a meet, but lost to a higher bid.. The excuse, well, no time and place had been finalized was given as a reason for not giving the seller the wheel.

To me, that suggests differently than I have seen things done the last 6 years.
 
One other point....

I think some are assumong there's an "ugly argument" happening here.

I don't see it that way at all. There's no name calling. Nobody seems to be acting in a way that's disrespectful.

Are there some disagreements? Sure.

But we're a community... and a complicated one at that. The items we have chosen to form our hobby around (guns) are divisive, not only outside of our community, but within it as well.

Some of these kinds of things just need to be "hammered out". We need to decide how we choose to proceed in these ever-more-complicated times.

This discussion is interesting. Nobody seems to be really "mad".

In my view, we've established most of us feel that once an offer is "accepted" the seller should follow through. There seems to he a bit of a divide among us as to whether or not a seller is obligated to accept the first offer that meets the terms of the ad. We're hammering out some nuances. We're (specifically I am) floating ridiculous scenarios in order to further the discussion.

Nobody seems to be getting hurt. I, for one, am learning a lot from experienced sellers here.

I don't see a problem. Even if we go "round and round" for a while, it'll be OK.

Perhaps I'm being unreasonably reasonable?
 
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BatteryOaksBilly said:
Nope...I asked that exact same question back upstream. That still does Not constitute a deal. Seller can still sell to someone else. Or so seems the group take. If the seller says..I am selling This for This Price to be picked up at This Place at This time and I say I'll Take It.....It doesn't mean squat. It's still up to the seller if he wants to sell to me even though I have accepted All parameters of His deal. Still not mine.
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The problem is that you’re assuming that everyone matches your level of commitment to their word. When you say I’ll take it that means you have read the terms and agree to them fully.

What it boils down to is simply the ability to enforce fairly across the board. Not how we think the world should be but how we can moderate.

With you scenario we have “but I meant I’d take the widget not everything else” or “someone else pm’d ahead of you.” Or any number of caveats and issues and what have you’s.

What we can equitably enforce (also without adding 30 more volunteer staff members) is when it is clear that a time, place and price have been agreed to by both parties.

Anything short of that is he said she said, subjective and any number of derogatory terms I can espouse. Not to mention a colossal time synch for the staff.

Mind you when we see some douche agree to a price but not the rest and then say someone offered more they go on an unofficial watch list.
 
TheWallrus said:
I have been around for 6 of those 8 years and things have changed. I know "I'll take it" used to have some standing and it is clear many others thought so also. How could that be if it wasn't true?

It isn't clear in the @Carolinatlc example. Seller agrees to item and price. Then busts the deal because he got a better offer, his stated reason. The buyer was acting in good faith in trying to setup a meet, but lost to a higher bid.. The excuse, well, no time and place had been finalized was given as a reason for not giving the seller the wheel.

To me, that suggests differently than I have seen things done the last 6 years.
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Edit: I see Chad just covered some of this while I was pecking on my ‘puter.

To me folks are trying to make something black and white out of “I’ll take it” when in all my deals there was always some nuance that had to be worked through. Always.

And for me the nuance was never about price, at least not on my part. I’d rather make a quick nickel than a slow dime anyday. If sellers are backing out of deals that have been struck because someone made a better offer after the seller had agreed to sell to someone else and are just working out logistics then I think that oughta be a punishable offense, even if it just means I’ll never do business with the welcher again.

But how many times do buyers fail to respond in a timely fashion after their initial “I’ll take it"? I’ve had this happen, they vanish for a day when you have other interested parties. Or it turns out they are not willing to pay electronically because “they don’t do that” or aren’t "set up for that” on an item that was going to be shipped, or are only able to meet at some specific time and place out off the highway and a time only convenient to them, and you don’t know them or find that convenient, screw that. I’m not going to do jumping jacks and backflips over a hundred dollar deal.

In all my deals there is invariably a buyer offering a lower price, not wanting the holster or ammo with it, or being three hours away when I just posted the thing for sale that evening. i don’t recall any simple “I’ll take its” where they weren’t either a long way away, I didn’t know them at all, or I just posted the item for sale

And for me, I don’t recall every personally posting an “I’ll take it" in the thread unless a deal had already been worked out by PM and posting in the thread was just for the benefit of everyone else, and then the seller posts “SPF”.
 
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And to be more succinct, I think Chad’s post #87 addresses this about as well as can be said, at least from the perspective of the staff’s ability to adjudicate this playground.
 
My last 2 deals fell through in here. One new guy didn’t have his made up laws in his thread and another was a no show because he overslept. I didn’t like it but it’s not that big a deal in the grand scheme of life. Didn’t leave either bad feedback. Don’t sweat the little things is how I live my life. The ones that get me and we know it happens is the ones who get so upset after losing a deal they could have bought something and them flip it to make a few bucks.
 
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I had a deal go sideways. Somebody was trying to sell ammo that apparently was in his dad’s possession. Wife and I drove 45 minutes to the meet only to discover he didn’t have everything we’d agreed to (despite me asking him to confirm what he was offering).

It wasn’t the end of the world so I simply declined to leave him any feedback.
 
The fact that there are almost 100 posts in a thread about something so extremely simple really hammers home why we have to put directions on a bottle of shampoo.

1. A deal is not set until the buyer AND the seller agree to a time, place, price, and terms.
2. Saying "Ill take it" is just a sign you are showing interest. It is not legally, nor morally binding in this forum because #1 has not been met.
3. Saying "Ill take it" does not ensure you will get the item. Even if you say it first. The seller has to agree to selling it to you. He may not like you, and that's fine, he probably has a good reason.
 
Majicmike said:
My last 2 deals fell through in here. One new guy didn’t have his made up laws in his thread and another was a no show because he overslept. I didn’t like it but it’s not that big a deal in the grand scheme of life. Didn’t leave either bad feedback. Don’t sweat the little things is how I live my life. The ones that get me and we know it happens is the ones who get so upset after losing a deal they could have bought something and them flip it to make a few bucks.
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I wish you would report these things.
 
I won’t say where this came from, because I might get yelled at, but I am pretty sure these are the rules we played by a long time ago, far far away, before we crossed The Minefield and through the Isthmus of Tortuga to arrive at our current domicile here in cyberspace.

Not much difference here at all as far as I can tell.

10. Regarding making a deal here and your integrity - If you commit to buying or selling an item, and you have agreed to a time and a place for the deal to occur, or you have exchanged payment and address information for shipping, you must keep your word and follow through - or you will face the possibility of negative feedback, a classified forums ban, or a full site ban, depending on what occurred. The first goal will always be to resolve the issue, but all feedback issues will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Because no two issues are ever the same, any decisions will be reached by a staff consensus, and we will make every attempt to be fair and impartial.
 
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B00ger said:
1. A deal is not set until the buyer AND the seller agree to a time, place, price, and terms.
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Bingo. Agreement of time, place, price, and terms. This should be self explanatory and intuitively obvious. Hemming and hawing or otherwise stalling to complete the negotiation with someone who has agreed to price, while not strictly a violation is dishonorable. Along these lines any sort of Bill of Sale requirements or demands to keep copies of permits, ID, etc need to be spelled out up front, preferably in the listing because some people may not agree to those terms while others may honestly believe those things are tacitly understood.

premise said:
Seller has the item, they dictate the terms.
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Excuse me but I prefer to not do business or deal with tyrants that issue dictates. It's a negotiation and the buyer is as free to tell you to take your item and flush it as you are to tell them no to their offer.
 
I have my own rules. If I have an item for sale and you tell me "I'll take it" @ that point it is yours and I will bend over backwards to try and facilitate the deal. If we can't work it out no hard feelings and I will offer it to someone else. If I am offered more money, better meeting arraignment, quicker sale, whatever it doesn't matter I have sold it to you until we reach a point that we can't agree on.

If you offer something up for sale and I say "I will take it" I have committed to purchase at your price and under your conditions, I will not change my mind at that point. I may have buyers regret later or see it offered at a better price or closer to me or whatever, doesn't matter I have committed to the purchase @ that point.
You may change your mind or get a better offer or just not like how slow I type...that is your prerogative. I don't have to like but it is not going to cause me to have a hissy fit, I'll just move own with life and try to find something else I want...from someone else.
 
Axehandle said:
I have my own rules. If I have an item for sale and you tell me "I'll take it" @ that point it is yours and I will bend over backwards to try and facilitate the deal. If we can't work it out no hard feelings and I will offer it to someone else. If I am offered more money, better meeting arraignment, quicker sale, whatever it doesn't matter I have sold it to you until we reach a point that we can't agree on.

If you offer something up for sale and I say "I will take it" I have committed to purchase at your price and under your conditions, I will not change my mind at that point. I may have buyers regret later or see it offered at a better price or closer to me or whatever, doesn't matter I have committed to the purchase @ that point.
You may change your mind or get a better offer or just not like how slow I type...that is your prerogative. I don't have to like but it is not going to cause me to have a hissy fit, I'll just move own with life and try to find something else I want...from someone else.
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Yeap, it’s just that simple.
 
Majicmike said:
We shouldn’t have to have rules for ethics.
Some people are just common as hell and will always be that way.
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Yeah, it sucks. But with a membership of around 5,000 folks, rules are needed.
 
Tim said:
Yeah, it sucks. But with a membership of around 5,000 folks, rules are needed.
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Particularly with many new arrivals being used to doing business on “other platforms”. ;)
 
Growth changes everything and everybody no matter how much we like to think it doesn’t.
 
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To be clear, my post above is not about me or my feelings. I live by my code of ethics which I believe will keep me in good standing with everyone. (As far as I know, since no one has ever said anything to me.)

My post is about what the leadership is saying, whether they mean to or not. The seller has the final say on when a purchase is valid. Therefore, they can manipulate the situation to what bests suits them. Again, I am not saying this choice is wrong. I am predicting that it will lead to problems in the future.

BTW, I did not see an answer to my question: based on this set of criteria, why is OBO not allowed?
 
fieldgrade said:
Edit: I see Chad just covered some of this while I was pecking on my ‘puter.

To me folks are trying to make something black and white out of “I’ll take it” when in all my deals there was always some nuance that had to be worked through. Always.

And for me the nuance was never about price, at least not on my part. I’d rather make a quick nickel than a slow dime anyday. If sellers are backing out of deals that have been struck because someone made a better offer after the seller had agreed to sell to someone else and are just working out logistics then I think that oughta be a punishable offense, even if it just means I’ll never do business with the welcher again.

But how many times do buyers fail to respond in a timely fashion after their initial “I’ll take it"? I’ve had this happen, they vanish for a day when you have other interested parties. Or it turns out they are not willing to pay electronically because “they don’t do that” or aren’t "set up for that” on an item that was going to be shipped, or are only able to meet at some specific time and place out off the highway and a time only convenient to them, and you don’t know them or find that convenient, screw that. I’m not going to do jumping jacks and backflips over a hundred dollar deal.

In all my deals there is invariably a buyer offering a lower price, not wanting the holster or ammo with it, or being three hours away when I just posted the thing for sale that evening. i don’t recall any simple “I’ll take its” where they weren’t either a long way away, I didn’t know them at all, or I just posted the item for sale

And for me, I don’t recall every personally posting an “I’ll take it" in the thread unless a deal had already been worked out by PM and posting in the thread was just for the benefit of everyone else, and then the seller posts “SPF”.
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I am not saying that is not your experience. I am saying that others have had other experiences. (Off to respond to your PM.)
 

MUST READ! Classified Rules have been updated

We've cleaned up and clarified the rules for the Classified/BST sections. Please read before posting or answering a BST ad. The significant changes are in the requirement for Price, Trade or Trade Value and clarifying what constitutes a "deal"...
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com
 
TheWallrus said:
BTW, I did not see an answer to my question: based on this set of criteria, why is OBO not allowed?
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OBO is most definitely allowed. But it needs to be something like "$800 OBO" not just "Best Offer" alone. Check out one of the example ads in the new rule set.
 
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Tim said:
OBO is most definitely allowed. But it needs to be something like "$800 OBO" not just "Best Offer" alone. Check out one of the example ads in the new rule set.
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They look good. Hopefully the headaches of monitoring the BST will lessen!

ETA: Thanks for responding! :)
 
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Jim1392 said:
My feeling is that If I say "I'll take it" and we've worked out the details where, when, and you back out for a better offer I'll be reporting negative feedback and going to the Mods for a decision on your banning. I'm a little surprised at this attitude here that after we have an agreement that you can just take a better offer. I guess no one has read #4 in the sticky in the BST thread. I've sold a few things here I know I could have gotten more for but once we've made the deal you got it.

4. If you agree to a price, time and location, your word is your bond. Almost without exception, people acting in good faith are able to reach accommodation and achieve a positive transaction even if someone's car breaks down. HOWEVER - staff will not hesitate to take punitive measures (including temporary or permanent site ban) for not honoring your word. If you don't know what it means to keep your word, do not post in the classifieds.
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Morals are hard for some especially when they think no one is looking. We've observed folks like that in our years haven't we @BatteryOaksBilly
 
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This thread=wow🤣

Reads like a bunch of college students in the dorm after the first week of a business ethics class...
 
The rules are vague because the mods enjoy the opportunity to apply them arbitrarily and generally screw with the members that they disagree with.

Oh wait, that’s the old place.

This system works, and it’s so much easier to manage than trying to impose an obligation on the seller to accept the first “I’ll take it.”
 
premise said:
If new members DownWTHEpatriarchy212 and antifafag223 and killwhiteycrackermurderer post "I'll take it" on y'alls posts, you gonna honor it?
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Reading this thread because I have a couple guns to sell. In over my head - I don't even know what those names are supposed to mean?
 
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