PayPal Warning

P2BA Firearms

P2BA Firearms

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Joined
Dec 5, 2020
Messages
132
Location
Sherrills Ford
Rating - 100%
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Be aware that PayPal will take all your money if you accept payment for Firearms or Ammunition using PayPal. They not only will restrict your account but will take any money you have in the account for violating their policy.

Six months ago I logged onto PayPal to find my account restricted. I contacted PayPal and learned I had violated their “Acceptable Use Policy” for accepting funds for ammunition. They told me I was permanently banned and my money will be frozen for 180 days to make sure no damages resulted in the violation. I had $2000 in cash and $3000 in bitcoin. It was bad enough I couldn’t sell the Bitcoin when the price doubled but at the 180 day mark they just took my cash. PayPal says I agreed to pay them $2500 for each violation when I first accepted their terms. Bottom line got nowhere speaking to them so now I guess have to send them a Demand Letter and possibly small claims court, not sure exactly.

Bottom line! There are a lot of members that use PayPal on here so be aware of the risks. Don't think it cant happen to you, I made that mistake!
 
How were they able to detect the violation(s)?
 
I'm guessing since the money was in there for them to take, it was a cash account with them?

They didn't just take money from a linked checking or savings, correct?
 
kcult said:
I'm guessing since the money was in there for them to take, it was a cash account with them?

They didn't just take money from a linked checking or savings, correct?
Click to expand...
Yes the money was sitting in the account. I guess I need to close the linked accounts to make sure they don‘t. At this point I wouldn’t put it past them. I didn’t think they would actually take my money. There was nothing illegal or any problems with any of my transactions. Just against their “Acceptable Use Policy”
 
Wow, I haven’t heard of them taking anyone’s money, but the 6mo freeze has been standard practice for a long time.

Almost 10yr ago they called 2 people I had sold to and asked them what they bought. Thankfully each said car and machinery parts but that was a close call.
 
This has happened to other forum sponsors/vendors as well.

Bottom line is that your small claims court proceeding or Demand Letter is an absolute waste of your time. Like it or not, you DID agree to those terms when you signed up for PayPal. It pays to actually read those long winded "Terms of Service" policies that everyone just clicks through.

Tim
 
Wow an uour lucky the bitcoin was still there. PayPal needs to approve the purchase and storage of crypo.. time to find another payment option I think.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Small claims court won't work. You have to sue the individual or company where they are located. So unless you are ready to go go to California or wherever they are located for court small claims is out. You might find help in federal court.
 
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Stubby said:
Wow an uour lucky the bitcoin was still there. PayPal needs to approve the purchase and storage of crypo.. time to find another payment option I think.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The BitCoin is still there for now. I asked about it and they said they will just sell it when they see fit. Once its sold and in the PayPal account there’s a pretty good chance they will take that as well. The fine print is $2500 damages for each violation. I am guessing that they will determine each transaction as a separate violation.

They probably haven’t sold it yet because the market is down. Bet anything when there’s more value they will sell. Something just isn’t right with what they are doing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Isn't Venmo Zell or any others owned by the the same corp and policies?
If it's your Bitcoin, how the hell can PP keep it from you?
 
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I read somewhere that they changed the terms of commercial accounts to add this fine somewhere in 2020.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
Isn't Venmo Zell or any others owned by the the same corp and policies?
If it's your Bitcoin, how the hell can PP keep it from you?
Click to expand...
Venmo is. Idk much about Zelle since my CU doesn’t support it.
That’s why people say if it’s not in your wallet it’s not your crypto. PayPal holds the BTC “for you”. You can’t transfer it, just buy and sell.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
Isn't Venmo Zell or any others owned by the the same corp and policies?
If it's your Bitcoin, how the hell can PP keep it from you?
Click to expand...

Venmo is. I have heard Zelle has strict polices as well and dont use either. I ended up getting a 2A friendly credit card merchant.
With the BitCoin, I did not know much about it at the time. What I learned is that PayPal holds the BitCoin and you cant actually do anything with it. Expensive lesson!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Button Pusher said:
Could end up in a class action lawsuit, the buyer and seller is whole so no reason for them to confiscate all your funds,
the $2.5K 'violation' fee is way over the top.
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Texas is going hard at financial institutions that ban certain legal businesses based on BS. Certainly a constitutionally protected business should not face obstacles from banks. AFG Holder went after banks, illegally, for doing business with firearms industry companies.
 
In case you have forgotten just how evil PP is, here’s a history lesson. PayPal announced a few years ago that they were bringing 400 jobs to Charlotte. About that time, Charlotte City Council passed an ordinance that would force every employer in the city to allow the gender confused to use whatever bathroom they felt like that day.

The NC General Assembly said, “wait, state Constitution says you only have the authority to pass the ordinances we say you can pass, and that’s not one of them.” (This is why cities cannot pass their own gun ordinances except for the ones the state says they can, BTW).

Nothing was stopping PayPal from making their own bathrooms any way they wanted. They just wanted government to strip the 11 million people that live here of their right to decide for themselves. So PayPal said to our Legislature: “If you don’t pass a law forcing every employer statewide to capitulate to the transgendered, we’ll take our 400 jobs elsewhere”.

Legislature said, “bye”, and PayPal went to some place that was more enlightened.
 
I've used PayPal many times for both retail and private purchases and private sales. I have an active account with them and it is linked to my bank account, but as far as I know I don't have money 'in' my PayPal account. When I use that payment method for an online purchase the money comes out of my bank account, same for a private purchase. When I receive money it may take a day or more, but as far as I know that's the only time they really have access to "my" funds. Am I correct about that? They couldn't raid my bank account, right?

Why would I ever keep money in my PayPal account?
 
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I guess I'm glad I've never linked my PP account to my bank account - just a cc account.

Just spent the last little bit going thru Wells Fargo - Zelle's terms and conditions. Couldn't find any PP-like restrictions. However, numerous warnings to only use the Zelle send money function with people you know and trust-that once the money was sent, it's pretty much gone from your account (outside of obvious fraud).
 
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Flashpoint said:
I've used PayPal many times for both retail and private purchases and private sales. I have an active account with them and it is linked to my bank account, but as far as I know I don't have money 'in' my PayPal account. When I use that payment method for an online purchase the money comes out of my bank account, same for a private purchase. When I receive money it may take a day or more, but as far as I know that's the only time they really have access to "my" funds. Am I correct about that? They couldn't raid my bank account, right?

Why would I ever keep money in my PayPal account?
Click to expand...
I believe they can reach into your linked account if, for example, there was a dispute and you lost.

I keep a checking account with minimal funds in it for all my stuff that has to be linked to a bank account.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
Isn't Venmo Zell or any others owned by the the same corp and policies?
If it's your Bitcoin, how the hell can PP keep it from you?
Click to expand...

Jerzsubbie said:
Venmo is. Idk much about Zelle since my CU doesn’t support it.
That’s why people say if it’s not in your wallet it’s not your crypto. PayPal holds the BTC “for you”. You can’t transfer it, just buy and sell.
Click to expand...

P2BA Firearms said:
Venmo is. I have heard Zelle has strict polices as well and dont use either. I ended up getting a 2A friendly credit card merchant.
With the BitCoin, I did not know much about it at the time. What I learned is that PayPal holds the BitCoin and you cant actually do anything with it. Expensive lesson!
Click to expand...

Zelle is no better. Avoid them all for firearm-related purchases if you want to be safe. There is GunBroker Pay, by the way... and so far I've found it to be decent enough, but one has to transact through Gunbroker and the seller has to accept it ... and sellers seem to be slow to do so, thus far. (GunBroker Pay also has its own form of crypto, btw.) IMHO the nice part about GunBroker Pay is that buyers must go through a validation process (which helps incent sellers to accept it) ... and purchases through it are protected much like PayPal protects non-firearm-related purchases.
 
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Lesson here folks, IF you have PP:
- If you exchange funds, put nothing, or “excellent wrenches” in the PP comments.
- Do NOT keep $ in the acct
- Do NOT link to a bank acct #, if you donate sure it has no more than $5-$10 in it, and it’s a different bank so your real funds don’t get transferred.
- DO NOT donate (purchase through PP) Crypto
 
surrealone said:
Zelle is no better. Avoid them all for firearm-related purchases if you want to be safe. There is GunBroker Pay, by the way... and so far I've found it to be decent enough, but one has to transact through Gunbroker and the seller has to accept it ... and sellers seem to be slow to do so, thus far. (GunBroker Pay also has its own form of crypto, btw.) IMHO the nice part about GunBroker Pay is that buyers must go through a validation process (which helps incent sellers to accept it) ... and purchases through it are protected much like PayPal protects non-firearm-related purchases.
Click to expand...

[emoji106]I got set up with GunBroker Pay back when PayPal froze my account. But isn’t that just for GunBroker transactions though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This was a change to PayPal's acceptable use policy which came out last June:

tamebay.com

$2,500 PayPal fine for breaking PayPal Acceptable Use Policy - ChannelX

PayPal commercial users will have to agree to a $2,500 PayPal fine if they break the PayPal acceptable use policy from June 2020
tamebay.com tamebay.com

From their Acceptable Use Policy page:

Violation of this Acceptable Use Policy constitutes a violation of the PayPal User Agreement and may subject you to damages, including liquidated damages of $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation, which may be debited directly from your PayPal account(s) as outlined in the User Agreement (see “Restricted Activities and Holds” section of the PayPal User Agreement).

If you're going to fight this in court, then the battle shouldn't revolve around whether or not you agreed to the policy itself, per se, but rather to attack the part which says "...may subject you to damages..."

In other words, they would have to show where your violation actually caused them to suffer damages which required $2,500 per violation.
 
Cowboy said:
Small claims court won't work. You have to sue the individual or company where they are located. So unless you are ready to go go to California or wherever they are located for court small claims is out. You might find help in federal court.
Click to expand...
What about the long arm statute? I would think it would be fairly easy to demonstrate that PP has continuous activity within NC. Or would this only apply to a federal court? I suppose he could file suit in federal court(*), but I am sure that wouldn't be cheap either. However, the likelihood of actually litigating a case like this would be little to none because of the costs involved to either party. It seems to me that filing a complaint and forcing a legal response, at which point PP's staff lawyers say "It isn't worth it, give the money back" may be the desired outcome.

* - years ago I filed a lemon law suit against one of the big car manufacturers. It was filed in state court (can't recall if it was district or superior at that dollar value) and the attorney said that we would get assigned a judge at random and that there was one, that he won't name unless it happens, that if we get him that we will dismiss the suit and refile in federal court.
 
noway2 said:
What about the long arm statute? I would think it would be fairly easy to demonstrate that PP has continuous activity within NC. Or would this only apply to a federal court? I suppose he could file suit in federal court(*), but I am sure that wouldn't be cheap either. However, the likelihood of actually litigating a case like this would be little to none because of the costs involved to either party. It seems to me that filing a complaint and forcing a legal response, at which point PP's staff lawyers say "It isn't worth it, give the money back" may be the desired outcome.

* - years ago I filed a lemon law suit against one of the big car manufacturers. It was filed in state court (can't recall if it was district or superior at that dollar value) and the attorney said that we would get assigned a judge at random and that there was one, that he won't name unless it happens, that if we get him that we will dismiss the suit and refile in federal court.
Click to expand...
In NC to have jurisdiction in small claims court they must either live or have a business actually located in the county. So if there is not a location the sheriffs department can actually serve it's a no go. Corporations like CVS,Bank of America, Walmart etc usually have a local branch or store that can be served. You might be able to make those arguments in district court for PayPal but it won't happen in small claims.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
Lesson here folks, IF you have PP:
- If you exchange funds, put nothing, or “excellent wrenches” in the PP comments.
- Do NOT keep $ in the acct
- Do NOT link to a bank acct #, if you donate sure it has no more than $5-$10 in it, and it’s a different bank so your real funds don’t get transferred.
- DO NOT donate (purchase through PP) Crypto
Click to expand...
One more Pink..............................Do Not Sign Up With Or Ever Use Pay Pal..........................problem solved.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
This was a change to PayPal's acceptable use policy which came out last June:

tamebay.com

$2,500 PayPal fine for breaking PayPal Acceptable Use Policy - ChannelX

PayPal commercial users will have to agree to a $2,500 PayPal fine if they break the PayPal acceptable use policy from June 2020
tamebay.com tamebay.com

From their Acceptable Use Policy page:

Violation of this Acceptable Use Policy constitutes a violation of the PayPal User Agreement and may subject you to damages, including liquidated damages of $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation, which may be debited directly from your PayPal account(s) as outlined in the User Agreement (see “Restricted Activities and Holds” section of the PayPal User Agreement).

If you're going to fight this in court, then the battle shouldn't revolve around whether or not you agreed to the policy itself, per se, but rather to attack the part which says "...may subject you to damages..."

In other words, they would have to show where your violation actually caused them to suffer damages which required $2,500 per violation.
Click to expand...
Will PP refund the fees if you violate their terms? ;) They profit from both sides of the transaction.
 
This is interesting. I had heard that they freeze accounts and hold money hostage but did not know they were fining people. I assume that they can only fine you if you leave money in your pay pal account. They do not have the right to debt a CC or bank account but only funds held by them.
 
I just checked my PayPal history.
I've paid lots of memberships and donations towards 2A through PayPal including this forum. Wonder if that's ever gonna bite me in the arse.
CFF
NRA
IL Carry
CRPC
It goes on and on. It's obvious I'm a "gun guy".
 
Timfoilhat said:
I just checked my PayPal history.
I've paid lots of memberships and donations towards 2A through PayPal including this forum. Wonder if that's ever gonna bite me in the arse.
CFF
NRA
IL Carry
CRPC
It goes on and on. It's obvious I'm a "gun guy".
Click to expand...

Why would it. All of that activity is within the scope of their terms and conditions.
 
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