PayPal Warning

RetiredUSNChief said:
In other words, they would have to show where your violation actually caused them to suffer damages which required $2,500 per violation.
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Easy. Since you have to sue in CA, they’ll easily convince the court that your dealing with scary firearms is damaging to their brand to the tune of millions of dollars.
 
Gnash.Hyena said:
Yeah... that's why I don't put any comments in my PayPal transactions, and insist others do the same. What PayPal doesn't know won't hurt it.
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I thought the same thing. The problem is that you do not have control over the buyer. You can ask or even insist not leave a memo but there is always someone who doesn’t listen.


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Paypal is not a bank nor is it a crypto wallet. I do not let paypal hold any of my money. I refuse to buy crypto with PayPal because you can’t move your crypto from PayPal.

That’s a hard lesson learned. Good luck if you try to fight them and get your money back, but I think such an endeavor would be similar to trying to piss up a rope.
 
Bigdave0924 said:
Paypal is not a bank nor is it a crypto wallet. I do not let paypal hold any of my money. I refuse to buy crypto with PayPal because you can’t move your crypto from PayPal.

That’s a hard lesson learned. Good luck if you try to fight them and get your money back, but I think such an endeavor would be similar to trying to piss up a rope.
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I think this is the key to using PP. You can use them as a transfer point for sending money or receiving money like Zelle or Venmo. When you receive money you need to move it out of Paypal as soon as it hits the account. Don't leave it in there. They seem to be going after only people who have funds on "deposit" with them. I have not seen a case where they went after outside money with these "fines". They are going after the low hanging fruit.

Too many people who are shut out of the normal banking system are using them as if they were a bank. They let people deposit their money there and then use a Paypal debit card like you would a bank but as you pointed out they are not regulated in the same way. Your level of protection is much lower as a consumer. If you are a retailer you are better off getting a true merchant account for CC processing and using other electronic payments systems. IMHO
 
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LeeMajors said:
Yall wouldn't believe some of the stuff left In the memo line from these degenerates here.


Never gun related, but off the wall crap I've ever seen
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A good friend paypal‘d me for the camera I had for sale. He wrote that it was for “handjobs behind the Food Lion dumpster”

I would hate to see what the members here would put..bwahaha
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
This was a change to PayPal's acceptable use policy which came out last June:

tamebay.com

$2,500 PayPal fine for breaking PayPal Acceptable Use Policy - ChannelX

PayPal commercial users will have to agree to a $2,500 PayPal fine if they break the PayPal acceptable use policy from June 2020
tamebay.com tamebay.com

From their Acceptable Use Policy page:

Violation of this Acceptable Use Policy constitutes a violation of the PayPal User Agreement and may subject you to damages, including liquidated damages of $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation, which may be debited directly from your PayPal account(s) as outlined in the User Agreement (see “Restricted Activities and Holds” section of the PayPal User Agreement).

If you're going to fight this in court, then the battle shouldn't revolve around whether or not you agreed to the policy itself, per se, but rather to attack the part which says "...may subject you to damages..."

In other words, they would have to show where your violation actually caused them to suffer damages which required $2,500 per violation.
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Thanks for posting that. Thing is I didn’t have a commercial account.


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P2BA Firearms said:
I got set up with GunBroker Pay back when PayPal froze my account. But isn’t that just for GunBroker transactions though?
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Yes, it is. That just means if there's something you want to buy that's firearm-related, have the seller run it through GB. :)
 
I don't know about PayPal's access, but beware that when you set up any kind of direct deposit, you may be also signing over access to the account for errors, omissions and corrections. Happened to a co-worker and a dispute concerning over-paid commissions. Next thing they knew, all the funds were pulled back out of their checking. It was told to us that most people didn't realize "direct deposit" agreements were bi-directional. They giveth, they taketh away.

HR people used to get annoyed with me when I would strike-out and initial parts of a contract, like intellectual property clauses, before signing them. ;)
 
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There is new payment platform company that Dan Bongino is an investor in: https://alignpay.com/index.html

i haven’t had the need to use alignpay but maybe an option.
 
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Jerzsubbie said:
Wow, I haven’t heard of them taking anyone’s money, but the 6mo freeze has been standard practice for a long time.

Almost 10yr ago they called 2 people I had sold to and asked them what they bought. Thankfully each said car and machinery parts but that was a close call.
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Ok so when they call me I need to say car or machine parts and not NYFB. Got it. But I like my answer better.
 
I was just paid several hundred bucks for a pair of motorcycle mufflers. Paypal is holding the money because the transaction is "not consistent with my past transactions” till I upload a tracking number AND it shows as delivered.
 
One time someone hacked my bank debit card, even though I only use it at ATM machines. They used it to charge two $500 transactions and I caught it quickly. Got their no service dept. to contact (call) me (You can’t call them). They first insited that it was valid and my bank was linked to my account. Wrong, and no it’s not. Then they admitted it was fraud and said they’d refund it. Three weeks later, when nothing happened, I filed a dispute at the bank. PP admitted one was fraud and refunded it but then challenged me on the second one. I had to go back to the bank and sign an affidavit that it was fraud and they filed that with PP who eventually refunded the $500.
 
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P2BA Firearms said:
Be aware that PayPal will take all your money if you accept payment for Firearms or Ammunition using PayPal. They not only will restrict your account but will take any money you have in the account for violating their policy.

Six months ago I logged onto PayPal to find my account restricted. I contacted PayPal and learned I had violated their “Acceptable Use Policy” for accepting funds for ammunition. They told me I was permanently banned and my money will be frozen for 180 days to make sure no damages resulted in the violation. I had $2000 in cash and $3000 in bitcoin. It was bad enough I couldn’t sell the Bitcoin when the price doubled but at the 180 day mark they just took my cash. PayPal says I agreed to pay them $2500 for each violation when I first accepted their terms. Bottom line got nowhere speaking to them so now I guess have to send them a Demand Letter and possibly small claims court, not sure exactly.

Bottom line! There are a lot of members that use PayPal on here so be aware of the risks. Don't think it cant happen to you, I made that mistake!
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Same thing here. Got an email that I thought was spam. NOPE, permaban and holding my funds ($1700) for 180 days. Called to complain and talked to a person and got no answer as to the actual violation I did to get banned. Talked to a manager and after 25 min of back and fourth, he could not tell me what I did. Could not point to the actual offence. Sorta like the cops walking into your home and telling you that you are guilty and going to jail. Guilty of what, they can't say???? Needless to say, they have a very profanity filled recording of me now. I will never use them and the 2 credit card I had with them are cut up and the accounts closed.
 
They cancelled me long ago for a transaction the truly was a friends and family investment in my business launch. Venmo did the same. To renew my supporting membership here, I had work a different way of paying the fee.

I would suggest rest the forum find another electronic way for folks to pay, and all members here to close their PayPal and Venmo accounts.
 
12151791 said:
There is new payment platform company that Dan Bongino is an investor in: https://alignpay.com/index.html

i haven’t had the need to use alignpay but maybe an option.
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I saw this thread and was going to ask if anyone has tried alignpay. I have not but, would like to find something else to use and support other than PayPal. But, if no one else uses it on here then there's no point. I'm all for "canceling cancel culture".
 
Pinebox said:
I saw this thread and was going to ask if anyone has tried alignpay. I have not but, would like to find something else to use and support other than PayPal. But, if no one else uses it on here then there's no point. I'm all for "canceling cancel culture".
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Alignpay is a payment platform for online vendors. It sounds like you are looking for an alternative payment solution to using PayPal as a consumer. Different things.
 
I have bought and sold ammo and guns for years on paypal. Lots of both. Both parties need to understand the protocol.
 
kcult said:
Same here, but I'm still not keeping a balance "in" PP.
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I have had a standing “warning" from them for a couple of years in an email that states that I need to give them my social security number, and maybe something else for them to keep my money in their account.

When I do a transaction as a seller, once they say they have money for me I just transfer it out directly to the bank account to which I have paypal linked, and I never keep more than about $150 in that account, with no overdraft protection should it ever get hacked.

Edit: I just logged in to see what that language was exactly in those messages, and now those messages are gone. They were there for a couple of years. I wonder what they changed NOW.

Oh, and last week I sold some motorcycle parts where they held my money from the buyer till I could show tracking info that documented that the shipment had been delivered.

They change their policies more than...
 
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fieldgrade said:
I have had a standing “warning" from them for a couple of years in an email that states that I need to give them my social security number, and maybe something else for them to keep my money in their account.

When I do a transaction as a seller, once they say they have money for me I just transfer it out directly to the bank account to which I have paypal linked, and I never keep more than about $150 in that account, with no overdraft protection should it ever get hacked.
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I really should do this.
 
kcult said:
I really should do this.
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I set up an additional free checking account with my bank years ago for this express purpose. I can log into the bank on-line and transfer money in and out of that account at will for on-line transactions without worry. I used to have paypal linked to my main checking account that had a credit line associated with it that could buy some guy in Pakistan a new truck if my account ever got hacked. I fixed that.
 
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fieldgrade said:
I set up an additional free checking account with my bank years ago for this express purpose. I can log into the bank on-line and transfer money in and out of that account at will for on-line transactions without worry. I used to have paypal linked to my main checking account that had a credit line associated with it that could buy some guy in Pakistan a new truck if my account ever got hacked. I fixed that.
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Excellent idea. I just emailed my credit union to see whether they have a “no fee” account available if the balance remains low but the total relationship balance is sufficient.
 
Jeppo said:
Excellent idea. I just emailed my credit union to see whether they have a “no fee” account available if the balance remains low but the total relationship balance is sufficient.
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You can just set up a Capital One online account. Takes a few days for the test deposit to clear. Then fund it with $100.00 transfer. Then sever the link between the Capital One acct and your bank. You can put a Capital One app on your phone to fund it going forward. Just write yourself a check from your bank and deposit with the app. That keeps the account completely isolated from fine print that changes as these monster extend their reach and hide it in user agreements.
 
Timfoilhat said:
You can just set up a Capital One online account. Takes a few days for the test deposit to clear. Then fund it with $100.00 transfer. Then sever the link between the Capital One acct and your bank. You can put a Capital One app on your phone to fund it going forward. Just write yourself a check from your bank and deposit with the app. That keeps the account completely isolated from fine print that changes as these monster extend their reach and hide it in user agreements.
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This avoids any risk that PP could somehow tap into my other credit union accounts beside the “new $100” one, right? Is there really such a risk?
 
Somebody not long ago wrote "ammo" in my comments section in a PayPal transaction. Of course it wasn't "ammo," it was lead shot for a sled I was building. Anyway, it has been a few months and nothing has happened. I can't take a $2500 hit. How far back can these violations be reviewed?

Edit: if I had known about this fine I would have been a lot more upset. I just told the guy to be careful with comments because PayPal was not 2a friendly. I assumed, wrongly, everybody in the firearms community knew that.
 
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Brawny said:
Somebody not long ago wrote "ammo" in my comments section in a PayPal transaction. Of course it wasn't "ammo," it was lead shot for a sled I was building. Anyway, it has been a few months and nothing has happened. I can't take a $2500 hit. How far back can these violations be reviewed?

Edit: if I had known about this fine I would have been a lot more upset. I just told the guy to be careful with comments because PayPal was not 2a friendly. I assumed, wrongly, everybody in the firearms community knew that.
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When I bought lead shot I put "Plumbum" in the note section. The guy I bought it from said he cracked up and had not seen that term used in years.
 
Jeppo said:
This avoids any risk that PP could somehow tap into my other credit union accounts beside the “new $100” one, right? Is there really such a risk?
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yes.
I don't know. Since the fine print changes frequently what's true today may not be tomorrow. Last thing we'd want to find is they changed it and we inadvertently "agreed" to allow then to tap other accounts within the same institution. Utilizing with them through an isolated account makes it far less concern.
 
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