Reloading issues

TSConver said:
You should slug your barrels to see what size lead you should be running, maybe you can run .356 in them.
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Well, I hope so...because I have 1500 .356 zombies sitting here.
 
BigWaylon said:
With lead?

(.40 is my next attempt, but had to place order yesterday for projectiles)
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yeap. And I load a bunch every year, year after year. I shoot about 200 rounds a week, every week. All with range brass. I dont seperate. Tumble and load, shoot. Rinse and repeat
 
Mike Overlay said:
yeap. And I load a bunch every year, year after year. I shoot about 200 rounds a week, every week. All with range brass. I dont seperate. Tumble and load, shoot. Rinse and repeat
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I'll order the pizza. What day are you coming over? :D
 
BigWaylon said:
Well, I hope so...because I have 1500 .356 zombies sitting here.
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Zombies and lead are two different things.

When you said lead I thought you meant wad cutters. If you are loading zombie coated bullets then I treat them just like plated bullets and run them through the Lee FCD. You will not have any lead issues.
 
TSConver said:
Zombies and lead are two different things.

When you said lead I thought you meant wad cutters. If you are loading zombie coated bullets then I treat them just like plated bullets and run them through the Lee FCD. You will not have any lead issues.
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Zombies so far. Also ordered some other brands to try, but all are coated lead. Some round nose (9) and some flat point (40). No wadcutters except for a bag I ordered for .38/.357.
 
Lee also sells a taper crimp die you could get. I have one I use for lead and it works great. If you will separate your seating and "crimping" into two separate steps and do it real soon you will add years to your life, its so much simpler.

And if you start loading another style bullet all you have to do is adjust the seating depth and keep on loading, the amount of "crimp" stays the same.

Lucky13 should be able to get you one pretty easy if they are still taking orders for stuff. You could also get another seater die like you have and use one to seat the other to crimp.
 
BigWaylon said:
Is setting it to remove the flare, but not crimp, an option?
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That's exactly how you "crimp" any auto-pistol caliber. No crimp, just remove the flare. The case mouth should be square to the case wall. If it dips inward at all you're over-crimping. Look at a factory round under a magnifying glass and make it look like that.
 
dave33 said:
Lee also sells a taper crimp die you could get. I have one I use for lead and it works great. If you will separate your seating and "crimping" into two separate steps and do it real soon you will add years to your life, its so much simpler.
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Is the taper crimp die different than the factory crimp die?
 
I just thought of something else. All your barrels are lone Wolf barrels, or were they kkm? I can't remember what you told me. Either way, get the FCD. Those barrels have tighter chambers than stock barrels. I have run tens of thousands of coated lead through my fcd and never had a problem.
 
BigWaylon said:
Is the taper crimp die different than the factory crimp die?
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Yes.

Factory crimp die is part # 90860
Taper crimp die is part # 90780

Taper crimp die is actually $7 cheaper. I use one in 9, 40, and 45 for coated lead bullets. I use FCD's for jacketed. I load several different bullets types for several different guns and it just makes things so much easier. Seater die stays the same, just turn the adjuster on the top to seat deeper or more shallow, crimp die never moves.

I use to seat and crimp and the same time on a Lee Pro 1000, and it can be done, did it for years, but it sucks. I load lots of ammo, all mixed headstamp stuff, except for my 9mm major ammo, and separating the steps has saved me untold frustration.
 
FatboyFlash said:
I just thought of something else. All your barrels are lone Wolf barrels, or were they kkm? I can't remember what you told me. Either way, get the FCD. Those barrels have tighter chambers than stock barrels. I have run tens of thousands of coated lead through my fcd and never had a problem.
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I didnt catch that earlier, if you are running a real tight chamber barrel the FCD may be a better solution. Slug your barrel to see what size coated lead you need, if you need a .355 or .356 bullet the FCD should be fine. But, hey, they are cheap, may as well get both and see what you like better.
 
FatboyFlash said:
I just thought of something else. All your barrels are lone Wolf barrels, or were they kkm? I can't remember what you told me. Either way, get the FCD. Those barrels have tighter chambers than stock barrels. I have run tens of thousands of coated lead through my fcd and never had a problem.
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dave33 said:
I didnt catch that earlier, if you are running a real tight chamber barrel the FCD may be a better solution. Slug your barrel to see what size coated lead you need, if you need a .355 or .356 bullet the FCD should be fine. But, hey, they are cheap, may as well get both and see what you like better.
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Yes, all Lone Wolf. Both .40, and 40-9. That's the reason I said I'd seriously considered sending them in to get reamed. Can't remember who said it, probably Don or Jim, but evidently LWD will ream the chamber for you if you send them the barrel and loaded ammo you want to use.

Little Hardware has a 9mm FCD on the shelf, so assuming none of you jokers bought it in the two hours they were open today after I called, I'll grab it in the morning after dropping my son at school.
 
I seat and crimp in two different steps. I use factory RCBS dies with no issues with plated bullets. After reading the first page it looks like the process is being really over thought. Gotta keep it simple
 
My LW slugged .3555 FWIW.

I had no issues with the FCD when I was loading coated. Pistol FCD taper crimps and has a carbide sizing ring for the case body, taper crimp does not have the carbide ring. The carbide ring is what CAN cause issues with lead, lead will not spring back like brass will. The FCD is still a fixed piece so if case length is the issue it will crimp inconsistent.

I have used my FCD with the carbide removed. You should be able to make seat/crimp work though. I never sort, wouldn't dream of trimming, do so without issue.
 
At this point, I'm going to let it sit for a couple days. Don't want to work on it tonight while this frustrated. I work tomorrow evening, Fri evening is usually family night, and I'll be at the shoot in Pageland on Sat. So, hoping to try again on Sunday afternoon with @Mike Overlay.
 
In the meantime, I do have a small collection of unfired now-limited-edition-because-he's-not-making-more Zombie Bullets for sale. :D

IMG_8733.JPG
 
Lucky13bullets said:
Those are all over crimped. Back your whole die out 3 turns and try again.

After seeing that I bet you are bulging the case and that is why they won't chamber
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Those were all done yesterday by myself, before we removed and reinstalled all of them today.

But, for my education...you're referring to the seating die, right? I know it was originally installed using the "screw in until it contacts the shell holder, then back out 3 full turns" method. He reinstalled it today with a piece of brass in the shell holder and adjusted it that way.
 
Lucky13bullets said:
After that screw in the seating die an eighth of a turn till you just remove the flare and remember to unscrew the bullet seat stem the same eighth in the opposite direction to keep your bullet seated at the same length
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At this point, probably worth pulling the bullets from the dozen I loaded today and seeing what they look like?

I'm assuming it's ok to do that with loaded ammo? (Have to imagine that's the whole point, but figured I'd ask).

Note to any other newbies reading this: here's a free tip, so you wont do the same thing. If using lead bullets and the hammer style puller, only do ONE AT A TIME!! If you knock the bullet out, then just pull the brass out and try to pull a second (and 3rd), it's not a good idea, even if there's room inside the puller. You'll end up with completely mangled bullets that can't be used again. :eek:

image.jpg
 
And obviously I'm no expert, but I think this one may be a little off. :D

image.jpg

(That one was sometime yesterday when I tried backing the seating stem way out to see what the crimp looked like)
 
Yeah those are no bueno and I can see the crimp at the mouth so it's way too much.

Instead of getting reamed why don't you just use the factory barrel? I wound up selling a LW barrel after I couldn't get it to work with cast lead... which is the whole point of buying a LW barrel. I have many thousands of rounds of L13 through my stock barrels with no issues.

ETA NVM... threads, cans - duh!
 
The bullet seating die should be turned down until it contacts the brass not the shell plate. Then turn it out 2 or 3 turns and lock it. The adjust your seating depth.
 
Catfish said:
ETA NVM... threads, cans - duh!
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Yep.


I'll re-ask a question from a couple posts up. Should I go ahead and break down a couple from today and see if I've removed the coating? Post a pic of them either way to see what they look like?
 
TSConver said:
The bullet seating die should be turned down until it contacts the brass not the shell plate. Then turn it out 2 or 3 turns and lock it. The adjust your seating depth.
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May try that tomorrow. Can't remember exactly how much it was adjusted after making contact...but I don't think it was 2-3 turns.

So, to be clear:
1. Size case (die is set to contact shell plate)
2. Flare case (die is set to contact shell plate, then back out one turn)
3. Set seating die to contact brass, then back out 2-3 turns
4. Set seating depth (can be done by lowering the center stem down onto a loaded round that does chamber?)

That's what I'm coming up with based on the instructions and input here. I will say the Lee instructions could be "dummy proofed" a bit with some editing.
 
Yes! you need to know what's going on. And post that pic of a flared case too.

Break it down into steps:
flare a case, seat a bullet with NO crimp applied at all - back the die out until it's not touching the brass at all.
Then pull the bullet and check for stripping. Increase flare until it goes in clean. THEN work onsetting your crimp die to un-flare the case.

Your list above is mostly correct but check after setting each die and fine-tune accordingly.
 
BigWaylon said:
Slightly different settings for flat vs round nose?
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Just on seating depth if required. Heck, I set the dies and go with round nose the same as flat point. C.O.L changes but the depth of bullet I believe stays the same and my pistol keeps diggin, so do I
 
Ok, thanks for the discussion. Wife and kid are asleep, so I'm not breaking out the puller at this point. Wouldn't make much sense to load more tonight without being able to pull them, so maybe I'll give it a shot in the morning after resetting all the dies.
 
So now I just have to figure out how to remove the primers, powder and shell dispenser without making a mess. :eek:
 
BigWaylon said:
So now I just have to figure out how to remove the primers, powder and shell dispenser without making a mess. :eek:
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I just leave primers in mine, generally run all the brass out but leaving it won't hurt anything.

If you have the autodrum just cut the hopper off and lift it off the measure and empty it, then loosen the lock nut on the tool head and lift it off the press and pour it out too. A can of compressed air is handy to blast out the last few powder granules.

If you have the disc measure undo the chain return, cut the hopper off and manually cycle a piece of brass to clear the powder, then unscrew the hopper and pour that powder out.

Either method takes less than a minute.
 
In my opinion your problems are in the die setup, not in the brass. Give this a read and work on each step until you have a good result, then try the next step. You may want to remove the powder from the hopper, there is no sense putting into cases just to pour it back out.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/adjust_reloading_dies.htm

I think you'll find that you've got the expanding die too high, but read the linked article and you decide.
 
I read the link. It has different instructions than Lee includes with its dies. Tried it anyway.

I don't think I'm getting enough flare, but that die is turned all the way down to where it's a hair from touching the shell plate. Chuckhawks says to make it touch, while Lee says when it makes contact to back it out a full turn. Doesn't matter which method, I'm not getting the same flare that I think I remember from my time at Jim's.

But, I don't see any way to adjust it any lower.

Then, I make the assumption that there is enough flare, just to see how the seating goes. I screwed the seating all the way down, which should result in the least possible amount of crimp once I reach a suitable length.

Sized a case, flared it, and loaded a bullet...and get this:

IMG_8735.JPG

I don't see a way to flare any more, or crimp any less.

So...backing away from it and going to bed. But, if I come back, I can't see anything different to do based on the recommendations here and the two sets of instructions.
 
Lucky13bullets said:
is your powder measure screwed all the way down? the black thumb ring on the bottom of the measure... the flare die wont flare unless it is
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Will check on that. Thanks...not sure that's anything I've checked in all the tinkering.
 
The flare die was set properly, it had a slight Bell and the bullet was setting inside the case. The problem is the crimp die. It is crimping the brass before the bullet is seated. I set this die up by running a case through sizing, then flared it, then I set the case in the crimp/seating station and ran the ram up and turned the die down until it touched the case. I continued turning it down until the flare was gone. It wasn't much of a turn, just a smidge. Your sizing die is right. Your powder drop/ expanding die is right, you only need to adjust the crimp die for the longest case you can find.
 
Got a couple really clean ones this morning. Pulled the bullets on those and no coating removed.

I may be getting close, but still interested in working with the FCD to see if I can make it work with mixed headstamps even better.
 
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