Russian ammo bans

For all we know there is a backroom deal to help domestic ammunition manufacturers. In any event, prices are going up just like they are on everything else.
 
TripleO7 said:
That's been about normal for OL lately, hasn't it?
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I wouldn't be surprised if pricing for larger ammo sellers is automated. Pull-a-part did the same thing. A program would automatically incrementally raise prices on various items until it noticed a decline in purchases of that item, then automatically reduce prices until purchases came back to optimize profit.
 
JimB said:
For all we know there is a backroom deal to help domestic ammunition manufacturers. In any event, prices are going up just like they are on everything else.
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Wouldn’t be the first, or even third, time such happened since 1967.
 
MIlOZWd.jpg


Kinda likewise, the Ukrainian ammo that folks here keep mentioning isn't new. It's NOS stuff. There's no new Ukrainian ammo available (Wolf and Red Army Standard are not factories - they are brand names that have imported ammo from a variety of nations and arsenals). Ukraine's main cartridge factory - Lugansk - fell to the Russians during the War in Donbas and was subsequently blown up. It has since been somewhat rebuilt but remains under pro-Russian control. The factory is even looking for used tooling equipment as I type this: https://lcw.lg.ua/en

This sanction is not good for us. Not at all. But I don't believe it is the end of the world. As others have pointed out, there are already a number of nations producing 7.62x39 for commercial export. Many more with the tooling to do so in this and other calibers. I also imagine we'll be seeing cases of remanufactured rounds in the somewhat near future from other countries, that look, smell, and shoot awfully similar to Russian Barnaul, Vympel, or Tula ammo. I mean hell, I have plenty of surplus gear that's been scrubbed of nation of origin. I think I even have some old eastern bloc ammo stashed somewhere that is conspicuously absent of headstamps.

Finally, a note to all the holier-than-thou members who don't care about a ban on roughly 45% of our nation's commercially available ammunition. "No sweat off my back!" or "Don't need that commie crap cuz muh AR!" That's fine - thanks for leaving more for me to stock up on over the years. But if you think this ban won't impact your shiny brass, you're just plain wrong. That commie crap has helped keep your American brass ammo prices in check for many years. COVID notwithstanding, you're going to be sharing in this hurt right alongside all us unwashed masses of AK enthusiasts.
 
Combat Diver said:
I had a Form 6 approved for importation of a Turkish shotgun from Afghanistan last year. It is good for two years. I couldn't import the shotgun as CENTCOM/ARCENT Customs won't let it out of country. Government BS, so destroyed it before I left. Form 6s need to have the amount listed ie 100,000 rds of 7.62x39 etc per permit. Not a blanket/unllimited 2 yr import permit in my understanding. Also on my import permit they denied import of ONE round of .577/.450 Martini Henry for a rifle I had already sent home.

CD
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Sure you did... 🤣
 
wvsig said:
PPU and Belom are going to get very popular. Smart dedicated AK47 shooters are going to buy it for the brass and start to roll their own.

globalordnance.com

Belom Brass Case 7.62x39 123 Grain FMJ 480 Round Case UPC: 8606110608185

Global Ordnance. Great brass cased ammo! My new favorite for my Mini 30! Global Ordnance came through!
globalordnance.com globalordnance.com
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I know nothing about manufacturing ammo. I know nothing about starting a company...

But, a couple days ago, when this all started, I thought, "Is this a good time to start a company that manufactures steel cased 7.62x39 in NC?"
 
IUHoosier429 said:
MIlOZWd.jpg


Kinda likewise, the Ukrainian ammo that folks here keep mentioning isn't new. It's NOS stuff. There's no new Ukrainian ammo available (Wolf and Red Army Standard are not factories - they are brand names that have imported ammo from a variety of nations and arsenals). Ukraine's main cartridge factory - Lugansk - fell to the Russians during the War in Donbas and was subsequently blown up. It has since been somewhat rebuilt but remains under pro-Russian control. The factory is even looking for used tooling equipment as I type this: https://lcw.lg.ua/en

This sanction is not good for us. Not at all. But I don't believe it is the end of the world. As others have pointed out, there are already a number of nations producing 7.62x39 for commercial export. Many more with the tooling to do so in this and other calibers. I also imagine we'll be seeing cases of remanufactured rounds in the somewhat near future from other countries, that look, smell, and shoot awfully similar to Russian Barnaul, Vympel, or Tula ammo. I mean hell, I have plenty of surplus gear that's been scrubbed of nation of origin. I think I even have some old eastern bloc ammo stashed somewhere that is conspicuously absent of headstamps.

Finally, a note to all the holier-than-thou members who don't care about a ban on roughly 45% of our nation's commercially available ammunition. "No sweat off my back!" or "Don't need that commie crap cuz muh AR!" That's fine - thanks for leaving more for me to stock up on over the years. But if you think this ban won't impact your shiny brass, you're just plain wrong. That commie crap has helped keep your American brass ammo prices in check for many years. COVID notwithstanding, you're going to be sharing in this hurt right alongside all us unwashed masses of AK enthusiasts.
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Don't forget the lowly SKS enthusiasts... [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 
Lol the 5.45 image hit the nail on the head. First I'm not ready to freak out just quite yet. I think this is just a bump in the road (with the associated panic buying) and things will calm back down soon with respect to 7.62. Luckily I don't need to buy any for a while. Unless of course Golden Tiger comes back out. Oh how I miss my Golden Tiger which was on par price wise but shot better out of every 7.62x39 gun I have. I think the biggest concern (and I hate to risk speaking into reality) are all the AK pistols. Part of my understanding is that was the undoing of 5.45 as they determined it was capable of being fired out of a pistol (not the only reason of course) Well as we all know AR & AK pistols (with or with out a brace) are all the rage these days. I just hope that doesn't come back to bite us and they write up some rule to leverage the ak pistol as a means to block the ammo.
 
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Icculus said:
Part of my understanding is that was the undoing of 5.45 as they determined it was capable of being fired out of a pistol (not the only reason of course) Well as we all know AR & AK pistols (with or with out a brace) are all the rage these days. I just hope that doesn't come back to bite us and they write up some rule to leverage the ak pistol as a means to block the ammo.
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Mostly accurate, with a bit of clarification.

The 5.45 sanction only affected military 7N6 ammo, not all 5.45 ammo. The basis for that ban was due to declaring 7N6 armor piercing (which has somewhat been disproven, but we all know these governmental bans have zero to do with science or facts). So, Obama was able to ban 7N6 by arguing that it was an armor-piercing handgun round (even though the braindead morons conceptualizing that infamous 5.45 pistol never even brought it to the market). You could still import commercial 5.45 in the U.S. after the bozo's sanction - just not 7N6.

Since there is no armor-piercing 7.62x39 being brought in (and long-banned Chinese steel core also relied on mild steel just like 7N6, making it kinda crappy at piercing much), there's no argument to be made using armor-piercing handgun ammo to ban 7.62x39 pistols.

Now braces, on the other hand...
 
Lots of nations around the world produce 7.62x39. Once Russia is out of the picture entirely it will open the market up for another national producer to make and ship it here.
 
rufrdr said:
Lots of nations around the world produce 7.62x39. Once Russia is out of the picture entirely it will open the market up for another national producer to make and ship it here.
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Yup and as long as you have enough on hand to keep shooting your AKs you will be fine. If not.....

7mlkmz6ln1m51.jpg
 
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All of it gives me anxiety, I don't have an x39 but it's gonna hurt my wallet. Imma cheap ammo ho in All my guns. Maybe the shotguns and 30-06 won't change but everything else I'll be crying for a good long while.
 
Here's what Sam Gabbert of SG Ammo has to say about the ban:

There has been a lot of people asking me about the sanctions on Russian ammo imports put in place by the US state department this past week and what it means for the future of ammunition supplies. There will be more clarity in several weeks when we can see the publication of a Federal Register notice expected on September 7, 2021. The state department announcement can be seen at this page - https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-united-states-imposes-additional-costs-on-russia-for-the-poisoning-of-aleksey-navalny/

My Russian Ammo Sanction Opinion - First, I hope you don't 'shoot the messenger' and I'd like to pat everyone on the back and tell them things are going to be okay but that wouldn't be truthful. In my opinion the sanctions are a major game-changer in the ammunition supply chain that is already strained. For the time being and based on what we can see so far, we believe that this will be the effective end of Russian made ammo in the USA as it plays out over the next year or so as import permits expire or are filled to the quantity limits, and in doing so eliminate supply of a huge portion of the ammo in the US commercial market. From what I understand, the USA commercial market consumes around 800,000,000 rounds of ammunition from Russia every year, roughly 800 semi truck trailers worth in a mix of the most popular calibers. For the immediate short term we expect ammo to keep coming in from Russia but I expect the importers to raise prices substantially which is understandable to me given its the end of the lifespan for their business model. The calibers we believe will be most effected are soviet metric calibers like 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54R because there is almost zero available manufacturing capacity for these calibers outside of Russia and what little exists will not make a significant impact in filling the needs of the USA commercial market without Russian ammo absorbing the lion's share. In addition to these calibers, I estimate that the Russians supplied 30% to 40% of the 223 Rem / 5.56 and 9mm Luger consumed at the shooting ranges across this country, and large portions of the 45 auto, 9x18 Makarov, 30 carbine, 308 Winchester / 762x51, 380 Auto, 300 Blackout and 6.5 Grendel. I see this as a potentially devastating blow to the supply for of 223 Rem / 5.56 and 9mm Luger, where the reduction in supply from Russia will be difficult to make up in the short term for other manufacturers who have already been unable to keep up with demand this past year. Consumers who have used Russian ammo regularly will have to move on from Russian made ammo to those other products made elsewhere and in doing so absorb the supply and prolong recent shortages. Again this is my opinion, based on my knowledge of the industry after 20+ years experience, and how things play out over time could be different. For me, selling Russian made ammo is about 40% of my business, and while we plan to source as much supply as we can from other sources, we do expect this to have a major negative impact on supply for 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 5.45x39, 9mm Makarov, 9mm Luger, 223 Rem / 5.56 NATO, as well as the other mentioned calibers.

Thank you, Sam Gabbert, SGAmmo Owner


I was hoping he'd have something to say about alternate east bloc suppliers filling the void but no joy.
 
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SCshooter57 said:
Here's what Sam Gabbert of SG Ammo has to say about the ban:

There has been a lot of people asking me about the sanctions on Russian ammo imports put in place by the US state department this past week and what it means for the future of ammunition supplies. There will be more clarity in several weeks when we can see the publication of a Federal Register notice expected on September 7, 2021. The state department announcement can be seen at this page - https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-united-states-imposes-additional-costs-on-russia-for-the-poisoning-of-aleksey-navalny/

My Russian Ammo Sanction Opinion - First, I hope you don't 'shoot the messenger' and I'd like to pat everyone on the back and tell them things are going to be okay but that wouldn't be truthful. In my opinion the sanctions are a major game-changer in the ammunition supply chain that is already strained. For the time being and based on what we can see so far, we believe that this will be the effective end of Russian made ammo in the USA as it plays out over the next year or so as import permits expire or are filled to the quantity limits, and in doing so eliminate supply of a huge portion of the ammo in the US commercial market. From what I understand, the USA commercial market consumes around 800,000,000 rounds of ammunition from Russia every year, roughly 800 semi truck trailers worth in a mix of the most popular calibers. For the immediate short term we expect ammo to keep coming in from Russia but I expect the importers to raise prices substantially which is understandable to me given its the end of the lifespan for their business model. The calibers we believe will be most effected are soviet metric calibers like 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54R because there is almost zero available manufacturing capacity for these calibers outside of Russia and what little exists will not make a significant impact in filling the needs of the USA commercial market without Russian ammo absorbing the lion's share. In addition to these calibers, I estimate that the Russians supplied 30% to 40% of the 223 Rem / 5.56 and 9mm Luger consumed at the shooting ranges across this country, and large portions of the 45 auto, 9x18 Makarov, 30 carbine, 308 Winchester / 762x51, 380 Auto, 300 Blackout and 6.5 Grendel. I see this as a potentially devastating blow to the supply for of 223 Rem / 5.56 and 9mm Luger, where the reduction in supply from Russia will be difficult to make up in the short term for other manufacturers who have already been unable to keep up with demand this past year. Consumers who have used Russian ammo regularly will have to move on from Russian made ammo to those other products made elsewhere and in doing so absorb the supply and prolong recent shortages. Again this is my opinion, based on my knowledge of the industry after 20+ years experience, and how things play out over time could be different. For me, selling Russian made ammo is about 40% of my business, and while we plan to source as much supply as we can from other sources, we do expect this to have a major negative impact on supply for 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 5.45x39, 9mm Makarov, 9mm Luger, 223 Rem / 5.56 NATO, as well as the other mentioned calibers.

Thank you, Sam Gabbert, SGAmmo Owner


I was hoping he'd have something to say about alternate east bloc suppliers filling the void but no joy.
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Reading what has been published already can’t be undone buy a pro gun President?
 
I wonder if India will enter the 7.62x39 market since they adopted the AK47 and jettisoned the INSAS? They have a very large defense industry and foreign exchange is always a nice thing to accumulate.
 
SCshooter57 said:
Here's what Sam Gabbert of SG Ammo has to say about the ban:

There has been a lot of people asking me about the sanctions on Russian ammo imports put in place by the US state department this past week and what it means for the future of ammunition supplies. There will be more clarity in several weeks when we can see the publication of a Federal Register notice expected on September 7, 2021. The state department announcement can be seen at this page - https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-united-states-imposes-additional-costs-on-russia-for-the-poisoning-of-aleksey-navalny/

My Russian Ammo Sanction Opinion - First, I hope you don't 'shoot the messenger' and I'd like to pat everyone on the back and tell them things are going to be okay but that wouldn't be truthful. In my opinion the sanctions are a major game-changer in the ammunition supply chain that is already strained. For the time being and based on what we can see so far, we believe that this will be the effective end of Russian made ammo in the USA as it plays out over the next year or so as import permits expire or are filled to the quantity limits, and in doing so eliminate supply of a huge portion of the ammo in the US commercial market. From what I understand, the USA commercial market consumes around 800,000,000 rounds of ammunition from Russia every year, roughly 800 semi truck trailers worth in a mix of the most popular calibers. For the immediate short term we expect ammo to keep coming in from Russia but I expect the importers to raise prices substantially which is understandable to me given its the end of the lifespan for their business model. The calibers we believe will be most effected are soviet metric calibers like 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54R because there is almost zero available manufacturing capacity for these calibers outside of Russia and what little exists will not make a significant impact in filling the needs of the USA commercial market without Russian ammo absorbing the lion's share. In addition to these calibers, I estimate that the Russians supplied 30% to 40% of the 223 Rem / 5.56 and 9mm Luger consumed at the shooting ranges across this country, and large portions of the 45 auto, 9x18 Makarov, 30 carbine, 308 Winchester / 762x51, 380 Auto, 300 Blackout and 6.5 Grendel. I see this as a potentially devastating blow to the supply for of 223 Rem / 5.56 and 9mm Luger, where the reduction in supply from Russia will be difficult to make up in the short term for other manufacturers who have already been unable to keep up with demand this past year. Consumers who have used Russian ammo regularly will have to move on from Russian made ammo to those other products made elsewhere and in doing so absorb the supply and prolong recent shortages. Again this is my opinion, based on my knowledge of the industry after 20+ years experience, and how things play out over time could be different. For me, selling Russian made ammo is about 40% of my business, and while we plan to source as much supply as we can from other sources, we do expect this to have a major negative impact on supply for 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 5.45x39, 9mm Makarov, 9mm Luger, 223 Rem / 5.56 NATO, as well as the other mentioned calibers.

Thank you, Sam Gabbert, SGAmmo Owner


I was hoping he'd have something to say about alternate east bloc suppliers filling the void but no joy.
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Not sure how familiar you are with Sam, but that guy is a total doom and gloom, end of the world drama queen. Again, nothing about this sanction is good for us, but I take Sam's missives with a grain of salt or simply delete them without reading.
 
IUHoosier429 said:
Not sure how familiar you are with Sam, but that guy is a total doom and gloom, end of the world drama queen. Again, nothing about this sanction is good for us, but I take Sam's missives with a grain of salt or simply delete them without reading.
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Pretty familiar with him. Been buying ammo from him for more than ten years. Always seems to have decent prices. And with this latest news, I'm glad I stocked up with him when I did. Got a bunch of GT from him back when his was selling it in the $200 per k range.
 
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IUHoosier429 said:
Not sure how familiar you are with Sam, but that guy is a total doom and gloom, end of the world drama queen. Again, nothing about this sanction is good for us, but I take Sam's missives with a grain of salt or simply delete them without reading.
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Agreed, he fear mongers quite a bit. Folks at Atlantic Firearms said the opposite of what he is saying
 
IUHoosier429 said:
Not sure how familiar you are with Sam, but that guy is a total doom and gloom, end of the world drama queen. Again, nothing about this sanction is good for us, but I take Sam's missives with a grain of salt or simply delete them without reading.
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Yup he is in the business of selling ammo and the more lathered up he can get people the more he sells. He likes to fan the flames.
 
drumsarereallycool said:
What is Atlantic saying?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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SITREP WEEKLY FIREARMS REPORT - AtlanticFirearms.com

SITREP WEEKLY FIREARMS REPORT AT ATLANTIC FIREARMS
atlanticfirearms.com atlanticfirearms.com

Basically they are saying we will see short term price increases and availability issues but that long term someone will fill the void but most likely will not be as cheap as Russian suppliers. You have to take them with a grain of salt also. If you can't get ammo for an AK his business is going to die. They are one of the biggest sellers of AK platform rifles in the country. Telling you there will be major availability issues in the future devalues the guns he is selling.
 
This is a double edged sword for me. Luckily, I invested in OLN and VSTO about 2 years ago, and they have been doing really well, I think this will continue. BUT, Wolf makes the only affordable 6.5 grendel ammo. So, it sucks for my guns, but its good for my stocks.
 
I think cheap ammo is a thing of the past awhile ago. The first case I bought of 7.62x39 was 7 cents a round. Then I remember when 15 cents was a good deal. Then 18, Then 30 became the norm. Then more recently we got in an out of the 50 and 60 cent realm. So if anyone would imagine 80 and 90 cents or even a buck for steely goodness is out of the realm of possibility think again. The supply will be curtailed. That is the real agenda not punishing Putin. Unless you have a serious stash of ammo it's going to cost more to go bang The price of ammo just doesn't go down over time even in the best of times.

The Ak SKS world is strange in that guns that you couldn't sell for 125 bucks 20 years ago because they were unadulterated junk now exceed the thousand dollar mark and sell. Guns that were 600 even so not long ago are now twice that and sell out quickly Cheap is truly over. Folks that are paying more than a thousand for an old Chinese beater will probably spend a buck a trigger pull.

Ammo is like everything else now. There's an overpriced market for everything.
 
www.carolinashootersclub.com

7.62 x 39 Historical Price of Ammo

Fairly new to the mass collecting of ammo and firearms(because all I had was lost in that boating accident). From looking around a few sites it seems...
www.carolinashootersclub.com www.carolinashootersclub.com

Interesting thread from the past on the same subject we face today. I get a lot of laughs on the idea of 80 cent 7.62 but I stopped In Clayton Guns today and all 7.62 is a buck a round and it was moving off the shelf. There will be a day when we are nostalgic for the days a round was a dollar a round. Just like the days when it was seven cents.
 
Even if the void is filled, the prices will likely not return to what they were. $200 cases of GT are long gone IMO.

Sent from my moto g fast using Tapatalk
 
You are correct. We were not even before this on track for $200 cases to return. There's a commitment to attack ammo and drive up prices as a form of gun control. The market adjusts. I've had so much eye rolling and laughter on this site about .75 and .80 rounds for sale. However I rarely see the eye rollers listing up all the ammo they have for sale for .10 or .20 a round. The price over the last 20 years hasn't gone down. I don't think it will magically get cheap again especially as supply gets choked down. It's funny how the free market is a great idea until it makes something you want cost a bunch.
 
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