sales of rifles and shotguns by individuals

@JimB

Just curious, why are you so against a minimal BOS? Is it just the principle?

I understand wanting to avoid giving out personal information. I agree with that concern completely. I almost missed out on a gun because the seller wanted to take pictures of my NCDL and CWP.

But is your name and signature really too much to ask? I may try to sell another gun one day, (I hope not), and don't want to lose you as a potential customer.
 
BigWaylon said:
Because I can get a PPP, commit a felony, get out of jail in a couple years, and still have my PPPs at home. :D

Just another reason the whole PPP system is stupid.
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No one seems to understand this. There is no ppp police to revoke your ppp after you've committed a felony. Had to be the worst system I've seen in place for firearms purchase.
 
TheWallrus said:
Just curious, why are you so against a minimal BOS? Is it just the principle?
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I'm not opposed to them at all, but I am opposed to the dissemination of incorrect information about them. If you want one, or if you want a BBQ sandwich and a pepsi, that's all good. It's the justification for wanting one, the misunderstanding of state and federal law, the incorrect assumptions about what law enforcement will do, and the poorly considered benefits of the document that offend me. (Not saying that you've used these justifications, I haven't the interest to go back in the thread to see who said what)

Traceround said:
No one seems to understand this. There is no ppp police to revoke your ppp after you've committed a felony. Had to be the worst system I've seen in place for firearms purchase.
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The system is perfect for what it was designed for. The PPP was never intended to stop felons from purchasing a pistol, it was intended to stop a black person from purchasing a pistol (my opinion). The world has changed for the better, and NC just hasn't kept up.
 
I'mYourHuckleberry said:
So how do you know that the buyer is legally allowed to own a rifle or shotgun if you don't check for a permit or CCW? If he is a felon then by law he is not allowed to own a firearm, period!
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It is not your job or responsibility to "know," it is only your responsibility to not sell if you do know, or should reasonably know.

Would you support a new law that required you to determine that a buyer is allowed to own a particular firearm? How would you do this? The PPP isn't current, the guy you meet might be a shadow buyer for a criminal, the guy might become a felon after buying your gun, etc etc. Bad guys get guns, and this wouldn't stop them, it would just inconvenience the rest of us.

BTW, I've sold fewer than 5 guns in my entire life.
 
JimB said:
The system is perfect for what it was designed for. The PPP was never intended to stop felons from purchasing a pistol, it was intended to stop a black person from purchasing a pistol (my opinion). The world has changed for the better, and NC just hasn't kept up.
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When I moved down here from Washington state and my CCP expired, I went to buy a pistol and when the guy at the shop explained to me how the system worked I almost pissed myself. I actually thought I was being pranked. Then again, I was also called a yankee a couple times during the first few months here when people would see my license plates. After that, the ppp thing all made sense to me...
 
indie_rocker said:
All I'm required for a long arm sale is ask if the person is allowed to own firearms and confirm the buyer lives in my state. If the buyer meets those requirements then its good in my book.

Now if the dude shows up wearing a tinfoil suit and scans me for bugs before I can say a word. Or starts acting in any way like Gary Busey, the sale is probably off.

But I'm under no obligation to check a PPP or concealed permit or a freaking rifle sale. That's mainstream media garbage. Go look at statistics for crimes committed with rifles compared to handguns.
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I know that's all we are required to do. But some of us like to have a little more. It's my choice just like it's your choice not to check. Like I have said in my earlier post, if the firearm is traceable back to me the I require a BOS. If not, then I don't. However, I do require a valid NC drivers license and a CCW or a permit. And by require, I mean that I want to see that it's current and up to date. I don't want a copy or to take a picture. I just want to see it. If the firearm is in my name, I usually get name, address, drivers license number and a signature. But again this is my choice and if the seller doesn't agree then they don't have to buy from me. I have never failed to sale a firearm I have listed. Most people that I've met have been willing to sign a BOS and are happy to do so and I usually give them a copy if they want one also.
 
I'mYourHuckleberry said:
I know that's all we are required to do. But some of us like to have a little more. It's my choice just like it's your choice not to check. Like I have said in my earlier post, if the firearm is traceable back to me the I require a BOS. If not, then I don't. However, I do require a valid NC drivers license and a CCW or a permit. And by require, I mean that I want to see that it's current and up to date. I don't want a copy or to take a picture. I just want to see it. If the firearm is in my name, I usually get name, address, drivers license number and a signature. But again this is my choice and if the seller doesn't agree then they don't have to buy from me. I have never failed to sale a firearm I have listed. Most people that I've met have been willing to sign a BOS and are happy to do so and I usually give them a copy if they want one also.
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What are you talking about a gun being in your name. You have stated that a few times. Do you live somewhere that requires you to register a gun in your name. And if you require a bos is that for when you buy AND sell. If that's the case then the way you are saying all you have or have had are traceable back to you.


Deal with identity theft. And I mean real identity theft. I'm still dealing with it. Easy to find out anything about anybody with just a driver license number.
 
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JimB said:
It is not your job or responsibility to "know," it is only your responsibility to not sell if you do know, or should reasonably know.

Would you support a new law that required you to determine that a buyer is allowed to own a particular firearm? How would you do this? The PPP isn't current, the guy you meet might be a shadow buyer for a criminal, the guy might become a felon after buying your gun, etc etc. Bad guys get guns, and this wouldn't stop them, it would just inconvenience the rest of us.

BTW, I've sold fewer than 5 guns in my entire life.
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It may not be my job but it's my gun and therefore I make it my responsibility to try and know who I'm selling to. I have sold over 20 firearms.
 
BurnedOutGeek said:
You don't find this statement incredibly retarded for you to make your argument?
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Not at all because I have said numerous times, if you'd learn to not be a selective reader" that I don't always require a BOS but I do always require a CCW or permit and NC drivers license

LeeMajors said:
What are you talking about a gun being in your name. You have stated that a few times. Do you live somewhere that requires you to register a gun in your name. And if you require a bos is that for when you buy AND sell. If that's the case then the way you are saying all you have or have had are traceable back to you.


Deal with identity theft. And I mean real identity theft. I'm still dealing with it. Easy to find out anything about anybody with just a driver license number.
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As being in my name, if there is a signed piece of paper that has the serial number and my info on it then I call that being in my name. I'm sorry I'm not wording it like you would like me to. I only want a BOS if it's traceable back to me. If I'm buying I firearm then I have no problem signing a BOS either but I haven't for every firearm I've bought.
 
I'mYourHuckleberry said:
Not at all because I have said numerous times, if you'd learn to not be a selective reader" that I don't always require a BOS but I do always require a CCW or permit and NC drivers license



As being in my name, if there is a signed piece of paper that has the serial number and my info on it then I call that being in my name. I'm sorry I'm not wording it like you would like me to. I only want a BOS if it's traceable back to me. If I'm buying I firearm then I have no problem signing a BOS either but I haven't for every firearm I've bought.
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Have fun with that, as misguided as it is.
 
I'mYourHuckleberry said:
Not at all because I have said numerous times, if you'd learn to not be a selective reader" that I don't always require a BOS but I do always require a CCW or permit and NC drivers license



As being in my name, if there is a signed piece of paper that has the serial number and my info on it then I call that being in my name. I'm sorry I'm not wording it like you would like me to. I only want a BOS if it's traceable back to me. If I'm buying I firearm then I have no problem signing a BOS either but I haven't for every firearm I've bought.
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I don't care how you word your statements. I just think people asking more than the law requires is absurd.

That bos is more worthless than a blank sheet of paper. Unless it's in pencil. At least it could be erased and reused.

How will you handle it when someone's identity is compromised. Weather it is because you let it happen or it happened elsewhere. It's a burden of proof on you to prove it wasn't you. I bet that would get expensive. Lawyers and all.

That being said , I don't have the money to have an attorney on retainer to cover my butt for something that may and could happen. That I have to prove wasn't my fault.


YMMV
 
LeeMajors said:
I don't care how you word your statements. I just think people asking more than the law requires is absurd.

That bos is more worthless than a blank sheet of paper. Unless it's in pencil. At least it could be erased and reused.

How will you handle it when someone's identity is compromised. Weather it is because you let it happen or it happened elsewhere. It's a burden of proof on you to prove it wasn't you. I bet that would get expensive. Lawyers and all.

That being said , I don't have the money to have an attorney on retainer to cover my butt for something that may and could happen. That I have to prove wasn't my fault.


YMMV
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The BOS goes in my safe. No one will get it. The information I get is easily obtained online. The only thing I can't get online is the signature. Most of the time before I meet someone, I already know their name, city they live in and phone number. Just by that info, I can look up and get their address.

So I don't understand how I have compromised any of their info when it's all right here in the good ol internet!
 
So let's use your condescending words back to you. If you weren't a selective reader.

The burden of proof is on you that you didn't let it happen. How would you handle that?

I'm so glad discussions like this come up. It sure let's me know who to deal with and who not to.
 
indie_rocker said:
No, I'm done responding or acknowledging you. Just and instigator and agitator.
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You know I truly am sorry if I have offended you in anyway. But me requiring information to buy a firearm that I currently own is my business and my choice and if I want to see a CCW or require a BOS then that's my choice. I'm sorry that you and the other don't understand that. I by no means meant to agriaste or hurt anyone's feelings. I was sharing my thoughts and then I get slaughtered. That's fine. I'll keep selling my guns as I have been. And you do the same. All is good!
 
It certainly is your choice and I used to do it that way as well, for similar reasons. As I learn more about what paperwork can do for/to me and what I can actually learn from checking documents I've adjusted my outlook on this.

I have no hate for a bill of sale, but no use for one either... and I think I understand the negativity for docs and papers.
Picture this meetup: 'Hi I'm Catfish. Nice t'meetcha. How 'bout you prove you're not some kind of criminal ok?'
Not so friendly right? That's what your ersatz roadside BGC says to a man.
 
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I'mYourHuckleberry said:
if the firearm is traceable back to me the I require a BOS. If not, then I don't
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I hope you don't think that I'm piling on, I respect your right to set the terms of any deal.

Having said that, from the above it seems that you are concerned that a gun may be used in a crime and that the police will trace the gun from the manufacturer through the sales channel and eventually to you. When they knock on your door you want to be able to show them that you sold the gun and to whom you sold it. Is this correct?

Have you considered that the police know that the BOS that you show them could have been made with a fake name, drivers license number, etc, by you? The police will of course accept the information, but they will give it the same exact weight as a line in a notebook that says that you sold it to JimB from CFF on Jan 1 1942. If they ask you if you knew that this character was a felon, you respond that you did not and that you specifically asked the buyer was a NC resident and if he was prohibited from buying a firearm. If you want you can have columns in your notebook to write in the state of residence and check the box saying that you asked if they are prohibited. You can even go the extra mile and ask if they are buying it for someone else.

Without any written record you have no issue, and they will not harass you, but if you want a written record the notebook described above accomplishes your objective without requiring that the buyer provide sensitive personal information and that you retain that information.

Just a thought.
 
Look fellas. It's your gun, you can do as you please. I've given a BOS and flashed my CCW. If I really want to take your ride I'll buy your ticket. I personally think it's ridiculous.
I also pass up buying stuff a LOT cause I have to jump through your silly hoops. So....you might want to think about that too.
 
indie_rocker said:
No, I'm done responding or acknowledging you. Just and instigator and agitator.
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Oh, that's extremely Rich.

The premise is to Hopefully not sell or give firearms to those that should not have them.

So some of us ,by this thread, will require just what the law requires for a private sale ( or not) while others ( the minority ) require a little more.

Seems to me there is a parallel situation in which a department encouraged straw purchases and apparently Private sales to whoever with little or no paperwork, etc. Hum, also seems to me MANY Folks weren't happy with the outcome.

So if there is a minority of us that take the extra step ask for a little more and be excommunicated by our peers, so be it.

Also, there is a very strong undercurrent ~ belief that "Big Bro" ,or want ever one wants to lable Gov as ,does not know what one has if there is cash used all the time and no or little paper work involved. Rest assured , " You Are MISTAKEN."

OH, suppose the following is totally different because they really did not want paperwork for the primary ~ secondary sales.

" Fast and Furious"

ATF gunwalking scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
 
YeeHaa said:
Oh, that's extremely Rich.

The premise is to Hopefully not sell or give firearms to those that should not have them.

So some of us ,by this thread, will require just what the law requires for a private sale ( or not) while others ( the minority ) require a little more.

Seems to me there is a parallel situation in which a department encouraged straw purchases and apparently Private sales to whoever with little or no paperwork, etc. Hum, also seems to me MANY Folks weren't happy with the outcome.

So if there is a minority of us that take the extra step ask for a little more and be excommunicated by our peers, so be it.

Also, there is a very strong undercurrent ~ belief that "Big Bro" ,or want ever one wants to lable Gov as ,does not know what one has if there is cash used all the time and no or little paper work involved. Rest assured , " You Are MISTAKEN."

OH, suppose the following is totally different because they really did not want paperwork for the primary ~ secondary sales.

" Fast and Furious"

ATF gunwalking scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
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So because I don't require a bill of sale or check permits for rifle sales, that makes me like the ATF and the fast and furious scandal?

I'm following the law... They're slimy bastards... I fail to see your logic. But, ummm, okay?
 
JimB said:
I'm not opposed to them at all, but I am opposed to the dissemination of incorrect information about them. If you want one, or if you want a BBQ sandwich and a pepsi, that's all good. It's the justification for wanting one, the misunderstanding of state and federal law, the incorrect assumptions about what law enforcement will do, and the poorly considered benefits of the document that offend me. (Not saying that you've used these justifications, I haven't the interest to go back in the thread to see who said what)
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Thank you for your reply and explanation. I can't disagree with it.
 
Never, ever, has anyone gotten in any form of trouble for the legal private sale of a non-NFA gun in North Carolina

There is zero reason to do anything more than verify they live in NC and have no reason to think they can not legally own it (for a long gun) plus see a PPP or CCP for a handgun

There is zero reason to create or keep ANY form of record.

Telling others they need a BOS, asking to see a PPP for a long gun or taking possession of the buyers PPP for a handgun is just plain fear mongering
 
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DrPhudd said:
Never, ever, has anyone gotten in any form of trouble for the legal private sale of a non-NFA gun in North Carolina

There is zero reason to do anything more than verify they live in NC and have no reason to think they can not legally own it (for a long gun) plus see a PPP or CCL for a handgun

There is zero reason to create or keep ANY form of record.

Telling others they need a BOS, asking to see a PPP for a long gun or taking possession of the buyers PPP for a handgun is just plain fear mongering
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Well said.

I come from a state that REQUIRED state level handgun registration. That forced the buyer and seller to maintain records for pistol purchases.

But long guns was absolutely no different than here. And I definitely enjoy a little more freedom with not being forced into registering my firearms anymore than legally necessary.
 
Man yeh.... tomorrow when ya get up. Come to this thread first, you know, before that first cup. Your blood will run faster and the coffee will taste better when the first one is poured. Heck yeh ! I can do a few things now. I'd like to thank each and every one of the posters. :)
 
DrPhudd said:
Telling others they need a BOS, asking to see a PPP for a long gun or taking possession of the buyers PPP for a handgun is just plain fear mongering
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Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off

Firearms lethal portability brings with it a higher degree responsibility than that of selling a knife or Baseball Bat.

So,

Lets say one is traveling on I-85 and the posted speed limit is 70.

During adverse weather conditions many traveling I-85 will slow down and many others will continue at or above the posted speed limit. So, common sense ( I Hate This Common Sense ) chimes in and says , “Hey if ya slow down there's less of a chance to wreck or go into the ditch.”


What I shared in post 84 happened and I would say the guy fully knew he can not purchase a firearm through a FFL and was shopping for a private source, I mean being a “Good Buddy” and all just looking for a deal outside of the New Stuff. I have also learned that member~s of this person's immediate family have been locked up typical stupid stuff like B&E and other questionable activities.


I have also declined to sell a pistol to a person with a valid PPP permission slip and another 2A Brother in Arms applauded my decision as the correct thing to do. No the prospective buyer had not been in jail etc , just people are people and every situation is different.

For me personally , if I don't sell a firearm private party it's not going to change my life, however if I go in the ditch or wreck it will change my life to varying degrees.


I also believe the vast majority of us in the 2A World do a good job of keeping firearms out of the hands that should not have them.

I also personally believe that there are those that legally can not buy a gun from a FFL and should be able to and have shared GRNC's info with them in hopes of clearing up there , hum, misunderstandings.

As to this private gun registry generated by asking for a BOS (?) , there are legitimate reasons for it ( not a registry ) and it makes my wonder that , ( Lets say ) , two CCW holders have been finger printed , officially logged in several Gov data bases, etc, and the prospective buyer refuses to sign a BOS. So even being checked out the buyer still does trust the seller ? Go Figure. Yes I have considered the possibility's that said seller has become a rogue criminal and I'm sure it can and does happen, rarely.

Another issue of “In my Name”, in NC I think we all know and are referring to the Last FFL that said firearm was logged in and out of, PERIOD!

Post 84

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.c...tguns-by-individuals.14419/page-3#post-254066
 
I'll be honest here, this thread has changed my way of thinking. I always felt that a BOS was BS without the O.
But the outlooks I have read have made me a new man. From this point forward, ANY and ALL of you that want to buy a firearm (of any sort) from me MUST follow the following criteria.

Cash only, no man hugs even if it is pants down, NO exceptions.
And while your pants are down, no buyers that can't prove at least 8" of manhood.
No male buyers that aren't manscaped. Same for females...
In the event it's female buyer, must display proof of pierced clit and nipples, no exceptions. Photos may be taken.

It is after all, my gun, my rules...... Right??
 
All these NC defenders of the universe that need a PPP or CWP for the sale of a long gun.

What would you do if you lived in SC or VA? States that don't have a ridiculous Jim Crow era leftover sloppy law.
 
Here in SC it goes like this:

Question #1: Are you a SC resident?
Answer: Yes
Question #2: Are you legally allowed to own a firearm?
Answer: Yes

Transaction is completed.

Sometimes, questions 1 & 2 are omitted.

A few years ago I got a call from my local county police asking me to call a detective in another state about a gun that I had owned. I called the detective and identified myself. The detective asked me if I had owned Brand/Model/Caliber firearm. I answered Yes. He asked if it had been lost or stolen. I answered No.

He thanked me for calling him and said that's all he needed to know. I asked him what this was all about. He said all he could tell me that the gun was involved in an event that resulted in a death. He was just checking to see if I had ever reported it lost or stolen.

Many years ago in Virginia, there was a double homicide that was big local news. My buddy got a call from police or ATF, I don't remember, asking about the Ruger Security Six that he had owned. My buddy said he had traded it to someone but couldn't remember who it was. The Ruger was the gun that was used in the murders. End of story.
 
Bailey Boat said:
I'll be honest here, this thread has changed my way of thinking. I always felt that a BOS was BS without the O.
But the outlooks I have read have made me a new man. From this point forward, ANY and ALL of you that want to buy a firearm (of any sort) from me MUST follow the following criteria.

Cash only, no man hugs even if it is pants down, NO exceptions.
And while your pants are down, no buyers that can't prove at least 8" of manhood.
No male buyers that aren't manscaped. Same for females...
In the event it's female buyer, must display proof of pierced clit and nipples, no exceptions. Photos may be taken.

It is after all, my gun, my rules...... Right??
Click to expand...

Sounds like you just want an excuse to look at some man parts.
 
Geezer said:
Here in SC it goes like this:

Question #1: Are you a SC resident?
Answer: Yes
Question #2: Are you legally allowed to own a firearm?
Answer: Yes

Transaction is completed.

Sometimes, questions 1 & 2 are omitted.

A few years ago I got a call from my local county police asking me to call a detective in another state about a gun that I had owned. I called the detective and identified myself. The detective asked me if I had owned Brand/Model/Caliber firearm. I answered Yes. He asked if it had been lost or stolen. I answered No.

He thanked me for calling him and said that's all he needed to know. I asked him what this was all about. He said all he could tell me that the gun was involved in an event that resulted in a death. He was just checking to see if I had ever reported it lost or stolen.

Many years ago in Virginia, there was a double homicide that was big local news. My buddy got a call from police or ATF, I don't remember, asking about the Ruger Security Six that he had owned. My buddy said he had traded it to someone but couldn't remember who it was. The Ruger was the gun that was used in the murders. End of story.
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That's not how this works.

You see what you're omitting is the part about where they locked you up because you didn't make up your own laws and CYA.
 
BurnedOutGeek said:
All these NC defenders of the universe that need require a PPP or CWP for the sale of a long gun.

What would you do if you lived in SC or VA? States that don't have a ridiculous Jim Crow era leftover sloppy law.
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Still waiting...
 
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