Chuckman
Senior Member
The Limey's are already in-country. And they are not the only ones.
War in Ukraine (World War III)
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The Limey's are already in-country. And they are not the only ones.
Torn and Frayed
Well-Known Member
not sure how many stones we should throw right now
Cabinet of Joe Biden - Wikipedia
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Those pesky "advisors" manage to show up everywhere.....
Torn and Frayed
Well-Known Member
i just want this blessed hearted thing to know that help is out there in the containment area for carpetbagger folk
Some of y'all never read this thread and it shows....
Cognitive bias codex and critical thinking
I think we are all given to varying degrees of confirmation bias: we believe the things we believe and tend to gravitate toward data that will back it up. Here's a good article about cognitive bias and the various heuristics that all of us fall into...carolinafirearmsforum.com
"I love the Russian people right up to the moment they put on a uniform or go into politics. Then they are my mortal enemy. I am part Finn; it's in my DNA."
The same guy that says this and immediately jumps to flying the Ukrainian flag as an avatar wants to lecture everyone on cognitive bias and critical thinking?
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Chuckman
Senior Member
I am guilty of bias (not of not critically thinking, though). But I have the balls to admit it.
And hell yeah, I will inform people about cognitive bias and cognitive thinking. Some of these posts smack of 3rd grade arguments.
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Precisely. To believe that one does not have some innate bias or prejudice is to be ignorant. Nature and nurture – we are at least partially a product of the environments in which we spent our formative years.
Are you referring to the tit for tat arguing? That appears to be mostly prompted by the troll du jour that has set up shop in this thread.
Or are you talking about some data that is opposing the narrative you have chosen?
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Chuckman
Senior Member
Neither. Both. Whatever. Data opposing narratives that is cherry picked for confirmation bias. Inability to consider that more than one thing can be true. Unwillingness to consider other points. Illogical presumptions. It's like all the COVID threads all over again.
But me? I don't know that I have a 'specific' narrative; and I have changed my mind on many things based on new data. But I still think Putin is a prick who invaded another country. Have not seen any information that disputes that.
ChickenHawk
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Ok bigot.
So just a reminder to think critically and consider other viewpoints.
Thanks for the PSA.
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OP
LTC Don
Well-Known Member
In the short term, it may have a negative impact on the Euro, but in the long term, it's forcing these countries to face up to some very, very poor and far-reaching energy decisions. Those governments/EU got in bed with the devil, and now the blood is spilling. The widespread destruction across Ukraine is appalling to watch. I can absolutely see Putin nuking Mariupol to free up his gang (cuz it dang sure ain't any sort of 'professional army') to then move on to Moldova.
Then again, the 'siege mentality' is strong with the horde and they may stick it out, to their detriment once all the new heavy weapons Ukraine is acquiring get brought on line.
Chuckman
Senior Member
Did I hit a nerve with you?
Is that devil worse than the middle east devils? I doubt it. Same can be said about our government. The more this goes on the more it looks like their is a no win situation for Russia. I don’t think their people have any love for fighting a war with people similar to them. This no Turdstan country.In the short term, it may have a negative impact on the Euro, but in the long term, it's forcing these countries to face up to some very, very poor and far-reaching energy decisions. Those governments/EU got in bed with the devil, and now the blood is spilling. The widespread destruction across Ukraine is appalling to watch. I can absolutely see Putin nuking Mariupol to free up his gang (cuz it dang sure ain't any sort of 'professional army') to then move on to Moldova.
I don’t think Covid is hoax, but I do know Ivermectin as an early treatment is wildly successful and has virtually zero downside, as opposed to the more media hyped options.
Chuckman
Senior Member
Maybe, maybe not. It's been fairly inconclusive. But to this point, if there are no significant downsides to at least trying it, why not try it?
Effect of Early Treatment with Ivermectin among Patients with Covid-19 | NEJM
Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Effect of Early Treatment with Ivermectin among Patients with Covid-19
www.nejm.org
In relation to Ukraine, the information, which has been maddeningly inconsistent in veracity, also changes by the day. Same as COVID, and the same people who claimed 'ivermectin won't work' and won't budge (in spite of some evidence that might suggest otherwise), are the same people who claim 'but Ukraine (or Russia) this or that'.
Maybe, maybe not. It's been fairly inconclusive. But to this point, if there are no significant downsides to at least trying it, why not try it?
Effect of Early Treatment with Ivermectin among Patients with Covid-19 | NEJM
Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Effect of Early Treatment with Ivermectin among Patients with Covid-19www.nejm.org
In relation to Ukraine, the information, which has been maddeningly inconsistent in veracity, also changes by the day. Same as COVID, and the same people who claimed 'ivermectin won't work' and won't budge (in spite of some evidence that might suggest otherwise), are the same people who claim 'but Ukraine (or Russia) this or that'.
I think most Dr’s that have had success with it use it early and with a combination of other things, some of the FLCC doctors seem to have been pretty darn successful treating their patients. Dr Zellenko has also created his protocol that works well.
At the risk of a thread derailment which is not my intent, I think this illustrates your concern about confirmation bias.Maybe, maybe not. It's been fairly inconclusive. But to this point, if there are no significant downsides to at least trying it, why not try it?
Effect of Early Treatment with Ivermectin among Patients with Covid-19 | NEJM
Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Effect of Early Treatment with Ivermectin among Patients with Covid-19www.nejm.org
Is it fair to say that you are biased to trust information simply because it is published in JAMA? I certainly was a couple years ago. If so, it would make sense why you would link that study, especially in in light of your past/current skepticism about IVM.
On the other hand, I read the first few paragraphs and I can immediately see that the study design is nothing like the protocols that dozens of doctors using ivermectin have used to literally save thousands of patients with either zero or low single digit deaths.
The three key factors those docs have been sharing with anyone who will listen is that you treat immediately (not wait until day 7 (!) of symptoms as in the study, you treat until the symptoms resolve (not just stop at day 3 regardless of patient condition) and you treat with complementary vitamins and minerals like C, D and zinc.
There are dozens of quality studies that show that early IVM (or hcq or even better, fluvoxamine) treatment works very well. And yet, the JAMA publishes this paper that confirms the skeptical view, by not following the protocol that has been proven with tens of thousands of lives saved. The ACTIV6 trials have the same issues, and ironically when non-biased docs dug into the TOGETHER data it actually still showed benefit from IVM!
One might say, well, this protocol was designed just to test that scenario so we can learn something about IVM, but at this point that is a waste of time and resources that does more harm than good, especially because the result is used to further suppress the effective protocols just because they use IVM.
So, I agree with you... Confirmation bias is powerful and widespread. I don't mind having my own pointed out to me for me to examine as it seems you don't either, and I think that's key to getting to whatever truth is possible.
Chuckman
Senior Member
Trust information because it is in JAMA? Not necessarily. I read the study, the research was pretty robust (and does point out its limitations; one being the question it tried to answer was very narrow and limited in design). Regarding my skepticism, I really don't have much: I have read articles that have said it's garbage, and I have read articles that said it would have raised Lazarus. My "2 cent interpretation of research and studies" has me go down the middle: it's probably not the panacea some people want it to be, and not the killer some think it is. In more scientific terms, it's probably classified, to me, as IIB: might help, can't hurt. So no, no real 'skepticism.'
I have always enjoyed debate with you, and talking with you. I think we're mature enough that we don't mind sacrificing sacred cows. If people can put out data for me to change my mind, I will, and I think many people would. Some people here, though, would go down with their bias like they were the captain of the Titanic lol.
Ltc Don : in the long term, it's forcing these countries to face up to some very, very poor and far-reaching energy decisions.
This is true. Those French we all enjoy making fun of and their huge and continuing investment in nuclear energy aren't looking as dopey as they usually do.
This is true. Those French we all enjoy making fun of and their huge and continuing investment in nuclear energy aren't looking as dopey as they usually do.
Torn and Frayed
Well-Known Member
Likewise, and it's true... So many sacred cows have been turned into hamburger the last few years, and trusted people/institutions proven unworthy, that I think we all need to be open to not having all the facts we think we do.
I always appreciate your willingness to respond to my questions objectively... You have a lot more experience than me on these topics and are a great sanity check on data that seems compelling but of course is never perfect or unbiased.
Here are some things that might be agreeable to many here:
Putin and the leaders of many countries west of Russia are mostly all jerks (stronger words not allowed here).
The war in Ukraine should never have been started, but too many politicians decided things had to be done their way.
The war should be ended quickly and peacefully, but too many politicians are more concerned with 'winning' than with the suffering of the Ukrainian people.
Truth really is the first casualty of war and what average citizens like us can really know about the war is exceptionally limited considering the mass of propaganda from all sides.
Putin and the leaders of many countries west of Russia are mostly all jerks (stronger words not allowed here).
The war in Ukraine should never have been started, but too many politicians decided things had to be done their way.
The war should be ended quickly and peacefully, but too many politicians are more concerned with 'winning' than with the suffering of the Ukrainian people.
Truth really is the first casualty of war and what average citizens like us can really know about the war is exceptionally limited considering the mass of propaganda from all sides.
From Ron Paul:
“War is a racket, wrote US Maj. General Smedley Butler in 1935. He explained: “A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small ‘inside’ group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.”
Gen. Butler’s observation describes the US/NATO response to the Ukraine war perfectly.
The propaganda continues to portray the war in Ukraine as that of an unprovoked Goliath out to decimate an innocent David unless we in the US and NATO contribute massive amounts of military equipment to Ukraine to defeat Russia. As is always the case with propaganda, this version of events is manipulated to bring an emotional response to the benefit of special interests.
One group of special interests profiting massively on the war is the US military-industrial complex. Raytheon CEO Greg Hayes recently told a meeting of shareholders that, “Everything that ‘s being shipped into Ukraine today, of course, is coming out of stockpiles, either at DOD or from our NATO allies, and that’s all great news. Eventually we’ll have to replenish it and we will see a benefit to the business.”
He wasn’t lying. Raytheon, along with Lockheed Martin and countless other weapons manufacturers are enjoying a windfall they have not seen in years. The US has committed more than three billion dollars in military aid to Ukraine. They call it aid, but it is actually corporate welfare: Washington sending billions to arms manufacturers for weapons sent overseas.
By many accounts these shipments of weapons like the Javelin anti-tank missile (jointly manufactured by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) are getting blown up as soon as they arrive in Ukraine. This doesn’t bother Raytheon at all. The more weapons blown up by Russia in Ukraine, the more new orders come from the Pentagon.
Former Warsaw Pact countries now members of NATO are in on the scam as well. They’ve discovered how to dispose of their 30-year-old Soviet-made weapons and receive modern replacements from the US and other western NATO countries.
While many who sympathize with Ukraine are cheering, this multi-billion dollar weapons package will make little difference. As former US Marine intelligence officer Scott Ritter said on the Ron Paul Liberty Report last week, “I can say with absolute certainty that even if this aid makes it to the battlefield, it will have zero impact on the battle. And Joe Biden knows it.”
What we do see is that Russians are capturing modern US and NATO weapons by the ton and even using them to kill more Ukrainians. What irony. Also, what kinds of opportunities will be provided to terrorists, with thousands of tons of deadly high-tech weapons floating around Europe? Washington has admitted that it has no way of tracking the weapons it is sending to Ukraine and no way to keep them out of the hands of the bad guys.
War is a racket, to be sure. The US has been meddling in Ukraine since the end of the Cold War, going so far as overthrowing the government in 2014 and planting the seeds of the war we are witnessing today. The only way out of a hole is to stop digging. Don’t expect that any time soon. War is too profitable.
“War is a racket, wrote US Maj. General Smedley Butler in 1935. He explained: “A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small ‘inside’ group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.”
Gen. Butler’s observation describes the US/NATO response to the Ukraine war perfectly.
The propaganda continues to portray the war in Ukraine as that of an unprovoked Goliath out to decimate an innocent David unless we in the US and NATO contribute massive amounts of military equipment to Ukraine to defeat Russia. As is always the case with propaganda, this version of events is manipulated to bring an emotional response to the benefit of special interests.
One group of special interests profiting massively on the war is the US military-industrial complex. Raytheon CEO Greg Hayes recently told a meeting of shareholders that, “Everything that ‘s being shipped into Ukraine today, of course, is coming out of stockpiles, either at DOD or from our NATO allies, and that’s all great news. Eventually we’ll have to replenish it and we will see a benefit to the business.”
He wasn’t lying. Raytheon, along with Lockheed Martin and countless other weapons manufacturers are enjoying a windfall they have not seen in years. The US has committed more than three billion dollars in military aid to Ukraine. They call it aid, but it is actually corporate welfare: Washington sending billions to arms manufacturers for weapons sent overseas.
By many accounts these shipments of weapons like the Javelin anti-tank missile (jointly manufactured by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) are getting blown up as soon as they arrive in Ukraine. This doesn’t bother Raytheon at all. The more weapons blown up by Russia in Ukraine, the more new orders come from the Pentagon.
Former Warsaw Pact countries now members of NATO are in on the scam as well. They’ve discovered how to dispose of their 30-year-old Soviet-made weapons and receive modern replacements from the US and other western NATO countries.
While many who sympathize with Ukraine are cheering, this multi-billion dollar weapons package will make little difference. As former US Marine intelligence officer Scott Ritter said on the Ron Paul Liberty Report last week, “I can say with absolute certainty that even if this aid makes it to the battlefield, it will have zero impact on the battle. And Joe Biden knows it.”
What we do see is that Russians are capturing modern US and NATO weapons by the ton and even using them to kill more Ukrainians. What irony. Also, what kinds of opportunities will be provided to terrorists, with thousands of tons of deadly high-tech weapons floating around Europe? Washington has admitted that it has no way of tracking the weapons it is sending to Ukraine and no way to keep them out of the hands of the bad guys.
War is a racket, to be sure. The US has been meddling in Ukraine since the end of the Cold War, going so far as overthrowing the government in 2014 and planting the seeds of the war we are witnessing today. The only way out of a hole is to stop digging. Don’t expect that any time soon. War is too profitable.
Chuckman
Senior Member
Butler was a fascinating man; only of 19 to have earned the Medal of Honor twice. He was also very controversial, especially in his later years (War is a Racket, advocating unions for military vets, speaking against 'military imperialism'). Regarding War is a Racket, he wasn't wrong.
I have said that it isn't our business, and we should keep our noses out of it. I am ambivalent about sending aid. I go back and forth on that. I am dismayed at the notion of US advisors in-country for about a million reasons and that is where we are headed.
Regarding Scott Ritter, he has street cred for sure. Interestingly, his comments above (“I can say with absolute certainty that even if this aid makes it to the battlefield, it will have zero impact on the battle") are shared by some, not shared by others. I am curious how he came to this conclusion.
I have said that it isn't our business, and we should keep our noses out of it. I am ambivalent about sending aid. I go back and forth on that. I am dismayed at the notion of US advisors in-country for about a million reasons and that is where we are headed.
Regarding Scott Ritter, he has street cred for sure. Interestingly, his comments above (“I can say with absolute certainty that even if this aid makes it to the battlefield, it will have zero impact on the battle") are shared by some, not shared by others. I am curious how he came to this conclusion.
NCLivingBrit
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We have to get involved, how else with Raytheon pay their execs bonuses and the Fed cover up all their sketchy shit in the Ukraine!
Chuckman
Senior Member
After talking about Ritter's assessment, ironic I just read this from another former military intelligence officer. I don't agree or disagree (with Ritter or this guy), just amused at how all over the place people are:
Let's just give them one of our printing presses and be done with it.
''On Thursday, President Biden requested $33 billion in new funding to go towards supporting Ukraine’s military in their defense against the ongoing Russian invasion.''
https://thepostmillennial.com/break...unding-for-ukraine-defense?utm_campaign=64487
''On Thursday, President Biden requested $33 billion in new funding to go towards supporting Ukraine’s military in their defense against the ongoing Russian invasion.''
https://thepostmillennial.com/break...unding-for-ukraine-defense?utm_campaign=64487
If 1 single idiotic Republican votes fort that insanity I may become political and join the green party or something to help hasten our demise. Although Democrat policies will probably beat me to it.
Folks, we’re in deep doo doo here.
So his take is that the Rand Corp policy of using Ukraine to turn into a quagmire for Russia with terrorist attacks and a total money, resource and morale suck is working. I could see that. Hard to control future terrorist attacks when the attackers are physically indistinguishable from the local population. Could be a Northern Ireland mixed with Iraq or Afghanistan mess for years. That’s a log border to control. Maybe we can offer him Secretary Mayorkas since he’s doing such a fine job with our border.
It seems that the Nato, EU and US policy of using Ukraine to drain Russia may be successful, but it sure sucks for the people living there. Guess they are just pawns for academic eggs heads world domination plans.
No, it's NOT "fake news." It's Nazi propaganda.
Someone who's over there demolishes three whopping lies about "Ukraine," with visual evidence beyond dispute
markcrispinmiller.substack.com
Chuckman
Senior Member
Russian armor taking a beating (verified in other sources):
www.forbes.com
The Russians Lost Nearly An Entire Battalion Trying To Cross A River In Eastern Ukraine
The better part of a Russian army battalion—50 or so vehicles and up to a thousand troops—in recent days tried to cross a pontoon bridge spanning the Siverskyi Donets River, running west to east between the separatist provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk in eastern Ukraine.
www.forbes.com
Chuckman
Senior Member
True or no? I can't find any info to confirm or refute.
www.foxnews.com
Russia withdrawing troops after 'heavy losses', proving 'inability to capture key Ukrainian cities,' UK says
Russian military forces have withdrawn from a Ukrainian region proving their inability to takeover cities in Ukraine. They fled to 'reorganize and replenish its forces'.
www.foxnews.com
Who knows what is true over there at this point. This article doesn't seem to mention that specific city, but paints a bleaker picture of Ukrainian prospects:True or no? I can't find any info to confirm or refute.
Russia withdrawing troops after 'heavy losses', proving 'inability to capture key Ukrainian cities,' UK says
Russian military forces have withdrawn from a Ukrainian region proving their inability to takeover cities in Ukraine. They fled to 'reorganize and replenish its forces'.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/05...ady-war-in-the-donbas-means-ukraine-wont-win/
Apparently the Russian navy has donated another reef to the Sea of Azov near Snake island. Reports are that a support shop was struck by Missiles and is on fire