T
The Green Heron
Guest
The Raping of Nanking.
i don't need you to inform me about all the horrible things man can and has done, but thanks!
Why don't you inform us all.
Can you understand that one of those posts was to you and one was to Cross? I wanted you to inform me what was worse than war.
But, I don't need Cross to inform me about what bad men can do, as I have seen plenty of it myself.
Really don't see or understand what point you are getting at.
If the point is that there are many things worse than war, I disagree completely.
Clearly there will be no swaying you. No point in trying. Your 48 years of first hand experience has taught you plenty, I see.
My 2 cents: Quoted by John Stuart Mills:
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.”
Of course, some of what Mills was talking about is in the abstract. But yeah, I agree, there are things worse than war.
You really don't think there are other horrific things humans can do to one another that don't involve open conflict on a battlefield?
Keeping a girl locked in a basement for decades as a sex slave, forcing her through pregnancy and abortion? Human trafficking? Pushing drugs? Abusing kids? Serial murderers/rapists? And those are all largely individual actions. Think about the actions of a government, like Stalin's Russia during the Purges, or East Germany and the Stasi. Pol Pot's Cambodia. The list is endless.
You don't have to have your head down ducking fire to endure some horrible stuff.
He said that while it was different with men, that his being accustomed to the smell of death was what made his nightmares much better than most who were not and that he suspected that we would see more issues with veterans of future wars, and that seems to be the case based on the issues that a lot of recent combat vets have.
It's interesting food for thought anyway.
The smell of rotting people and the smell of human waste are two distinct smells when comparing them to identical scents from animals. It's either that, or your senses get heightened in some way. Just like the tobacco in cigarettes sold locally in Iraq smelled different than the American tobacco bought in a PX or shipped over, identifying the smell of human feces saved my ass one night. Thinking we were out in a deserted, desolate place, what everyone else was willing to pass off as an animal turd I was adamant it was a fresh pile of human crap. I was right.
I had a great uncle who was what they called an ambulance driver in WW2. In short he picked bodies up from the battlefield. This of course was well before I was born. When I knew him, he was always a little off, and as my mother put it squirrelly. She said he wasn't like that until he came home from the war. She still has a lot of the diary entries from his father of life at home during those years and letters from him, including the one where he learned the war was over and he was coming home.Besides combat missions he flew medical transport, which usually consisted of picking up loads of rotting corpses that were stacked like cordwood
Slightly off topic but something I thought I would share. My father, a Vietnam vet (H34 pilot primarily) who then returned and flew for Air America (Which is why I was born in Thailand) saw more death than anyone should ever see. I know, from records, that he was shot down (or forced down) at least 25 times behind enemy lines. 3 of those were in 1 day and the only reason he didn't go back up (after crossing no man's land 3 times) was because they refused to give him a helicopter.
Pussy need a pat?Compelling post and quote. I think it makes a good point about our argument here. To be clear: as awful as I think war is, I certainly believe it is often completely necessary. I think some may have interpreted my post to mean otherwise.
I have to point out that John Stuart Mills was not a soldier, rather he was a politician and philosopher.
Pussy need a pat?
You just seemed a bit ornery---poking fun of the avatar.
The real problem is when the battle is over and the snowflakes win, the machine will grind them to pieces as well!The snowflakes, antifas are fighting the war for the machine driving them and the Machine will never feel any pain. I greatly fear for my country and what I/my family/my children will face in the next 5-10 years.
The real problem is when the battle is over and the snowflakes win, the machine will grind them to pieces as well!
I did some minor pruning in here.
I know @NKD And I assure you all that his post was not to incite a debate about what is the worst thing that man can do. Take the entire post in context and I'm sure you will see that as well.
Are there other atrocities man has shown? Absolutely. Does that pertain to what the OP was talking about? Not a bit.
This thread stemmed from the post about the statues and how a very small percentage of people know real war anymore. Those that have first hand knowledge are passing on at an incredible rate and those past generations knowledge is being lost. Most are taking that knowledge to the grave with them so that their children don't have to "hear" firsthand about what war is all about.
If you haven't, I'd highly recommended looking in to the "honor flights". It has been the best way for my father to cope with what he's been through with 2 tours of hell in Vietnam. He helps get the travel and arrangements together for the vets to see their memorials. Then he is assigned a vet to accompany during the trip. He tells me the same thing I'm about to say. They don't share their experiences very often, but when they're transported back to see those memorials they do open up a bit.
He doesn't tell me much of what he had done those years, and I've never pushed the subject. Even after my short stint in the military, we don't speak much about it to this day. He knows I'm here to listen if he ever wants to talk about anything, but I firmly believe they will be conversations that go unspoken.
I ask this be kept on topic as it's an important one. Those with actual knowledge, please see this as a way to speak with us about anything you'd like to pass on to future generations, and we'll do our best to try and keep this tidy.
Thank you
That goes without saying. I was just making the point that these people don't have any idea who they're fighting and protesting for!No, that's not the problem. I don't give a damn about the remaining snowflakes if they win. The real problem would be that the powers using the snowflakes won and that truth justice and the American way lost.
That in itself is one of the "worse than war" things.
War is the worst that mankind is capable of.
I haven't been on this forum long but I've done been all over it, searching various threads and topics in my own general interest
I've got to say, this OP (topic) is, in my opinion, the single most important and pertinent one on the board.
The possibilities of our nation's future, as well as our own and our families have never been more unclear as they are now. The future direction of our nation and indeed the world can twist and turn in so many ways, it seems. It also seems that the catalysts for such events have never been so sensitive, too.
Without boring people with my own history in relationship to war and violent upheaval, I'll just defer to the old axiom: "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it."
The OP's clear and concise message should give us all a bit of pause as we contemplate our own futures and to which direction we should set our sails.
Hahaha!I would be discouraged, but I've read the last chapter in the Book, and I know how it ends, and it's pretty good, at least for the side I'm on. Getting there could be a little rough, though.
I had a great uncle who was what they called an ambulance driver in WW2. In short he picked bodies up from the battlefield.
The real problem is when the battle is over and the snowflakes win, the machine will grind them to pieces as well!
I have ben saying for years "the US is dead, it isn't coming back, what replaces it? Now there's a conversation worth having".Great post Sir.
One thing I do know for certain. America will not exist forever........what abomination takes its place is truly scary to contemplate.
War is bad. You know what has given me PTSD though? Being a paramedic.
There are some experiences downrange that are truly unimaginable and horrible, the collateral damage I will never, ever forget. I would not wish to be in that situation again. None of those experiences have stuck with me as much as some as my paramedic experiences.
....and unfortunately, its what mankind appears to be best at.....making war on his fellow man. I have often thought if alien life has been watching and studying the earth and its inhabitants over the last 10K years what must they surmise about human kind.........the one overriding activity man must enjoy most is war.....because he is always practicing it. Its the great constant of human kind.
I have ben saying for years "the US is dead, it isn't coming back, what replaces it? Now there's a conversation worth having".
Mark Twain's war prayer, it's short and worth reading: https://warprayer.org
If this is the price of restoring freedom and liberty from the corrupted influences we have attempting to rule today, know that it wasn't those desiring said freedom and liberty that set the price.
I'll have to admit that I haven't read as much of his stuff as I should've. This particular one, we read and analyzed while I was in high school. Obviously it stuck with me and made an impression.Mark Twain was one hell of a writer. This was one piece I had not read. Thanks for posting it.
I didn't see that movie, but I do recall the subject matter, especially with respect to VN vets, being an issue back in the 80s, but I was also too young to fully grasp it.About halfway through I was reminded of the movie "Born on the Fourth of July" for some reason.