WOT Wide Open Trigger on Big Daddy Unlimited
- Thread starter charliedeltajuliet
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I'm kinda feeling this way myself. At least with a binary trigger each "single function of the trigger" is a deliberate action and IMO satisfies the technical aspects of the law as written. Not so with these forced reset jobs, or even bump stocks. I'm afraid when they go after these that binary triggers will be included because they pretty much do whatever they want once they turn their attention to something. Or maybe the opposite will happen, they'll focus on these and binary triggers will slip by unscathed. Unlikely, but I can hope.
I missed it, how is this different than a binary trigger?
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BigWaylon
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It’s a forced (or hard) reset trigger. Here’s an animation of the FRT-15, which is similar.
…as opposed to a binary, which fires on both the forward and rearward movement of the trigger.
These push your finger back out to the reset point, so just maintaining constant pressure with your finger (a single deliberate action) causes the gun to continue to cycle. Not unlike a bumpstock which requires constant forward pressure on the gun. Once you apply the pressure you are just along for the ride.
A binary trigger requires you to pull the trigger which fires one round, then release it (a seperate deliberate action) which fires another round, then pull it again, rinse and repeat. It sounds slow, but believe me it is not.
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OP
The chair is against the wall…… John has a long mustache…
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BlueFalcon
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I'd be in for one if I can pay cash
Not surprisingly, WOT is allegedly infringing on RBT's patent.
Rare Breed Triggers Accuse Big Daddy (BDU) of Patent Infringment - Tactical Sh*t
You may have already heard of Rare Breed Triggers they make a forced reset trigger which has been the target of the ATF recently. Read More Here In addition to their legal battle with the ATF they are now forced to protect their intellectual property as it appears that certain companies are...
www.tacticalshit.com
I haven’t seen a mention, does the WOT use/have a three position safety?
I’m not interested in a full time rapid fire trigger.
I’m not interested in a full time rapid fire trigger.
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BlueFalcon
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They have a two position trigger. Safe and semi, which is always force reset
OP
A company that would make a three position where you can turn the force reset off would make a mint.
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BlueFalcon
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Indeed
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Why specifically is it a don’t buy?You absolutely shouldn’t buy these.
rare breed is actually going up against the atf and Big daddy unlimited ripped off their product and stated that don’t have enough funds to fight two lawsuits.
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- They’ll be out of business quickly
- The alphabet soup will declare them a MG?
- sumpthin’ else?
I frequently see the login page link when folks post a gram.
OP
I saw this. The design is close, but the forced reset is a different angle and uses a plunger to keep it from binding and causing spring issues. Rare Breed won’t fix the spring issue (for the long run), I have spoken with Lawrence on a few occasions. His design was from one created a few years before by a different gentleman. I honestly would recommend people not get either one if that were the case. I think they will all be outlawed before long. Because the RareBreed design will not last without replacing the spring for the reset after time. My buddy who built the rare breed at the same time as me, has replaced the spring twice. Lawrence offered to repair his for $40 plus shipping. He used a spring from a pen that was cut to fit.You absolutely shouldn’t buy these.
rare breed is actually going up against the atf and Big daddy unlimited ripped off their product and stated that don’t have enough funds to fight two lawsuits.
He needs to get one of the triggers and check it before he goes in his soapbox thou. He admits he hasn’t even seen one personally yet. From comparing the two there are differences I am just not sure if it is enough to get around a patent infringement case. Rare Breed and WOT design is based off of the Graves Trigger iirc.
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As a reminder, bump stocks have NOT been 'killed' and are quite legal. The only people who got killed were those who complied with a ban that clearly violated the Takings clause of the 5th Amendment, which reads “Nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.” (As a reminder, the bump stock ban made possession of one's legally-obtained personal property illegal [with the public use being so-called public safety] while requiring that said legally-obtained personal property be destroyed or surrendered for destruction -- without offering any compensation ... let alone just compensation. That, folks, is what's known as a regulatory taking ... since it rendered one's property useless/value-less.)
They are located 15 minutes SW of Austin … 30 minutes N of New Braunfels.
Hmmmm … does anyone go to New Braunfels we know who could be trusted with cash?
It doesn't look like Recoil Technology Systems is actually selling the Graves unit, yet...
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OP
No, it isn’t for sale to the public. Graves patented the design and sold limited rights to Wolf Tactical and Alamo triggers. The Graves design is the one I would like to have. It is the only one that runs subs in 300 blackout.As a reminder, bump stocks have NOT been 'killed' and are quite legal. The only people who got killed were those who complied with a ban that clearly violated the Takings clause of the 5th Amendment, which reads “Nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.” (As a reminder, the bump stock ban made possession of one's legally-obtained personal property illegal while requiring that said legally-obtained personal property be destroyed or surrendered for destruction -- without offering any compensation ... let alone just compensation. That, folks, is what's known as a regulatory taking ... since it rendered one's property useless/value-less.)
It doesn't look like Recoil Technology Systems is actually selling the Graves unit, yet...
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BlueFalcon
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I can understand why you would want to support rare breed, but I’ve heard of enough issues with them to be hesitant. Hoping the WOT addresses these issues. Disclaimer, I haven’t seen any in person, im just going off of YouTube channels that have discussed their issues.You absolutely shouldn’t buy these.
rare breed is actually going up against the atf and Big daddy unlimited ripped off their product and stated that don’t have enough funds to fight two lawsuits.
BlueFalcon
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any idea if the WOT will run 300 blk yet? Im eagerly waiting more reviews, as 300 blk subs are what i prefer to run. Also i haven’t seen a release date on on the graves trigger yet. The design does look promising though from what i can tell in whisper tactical’s video
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cant hide money
Who can afford to run any type of trigger that adds speed to shooting 300blk
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OP
I have not tried but I seriously doubt it will. It would definitely take some fine-tuning with a buffer system.
BlueFalcon
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“I dont always shoot 300 blk, but when i do….. “ haha.cant hide money
Who can afford to run any type of trigger that adds speed to shooting 300blk
In all reality, this is one of those triggers that you shoot a few times a year just to show your buddies how cool you are.
Do i want one? Heck yeah…
Is it worth it? Probably not….
Why not buy? How about fair play, not stealing other's designs? How about supporting the innovator- who at the same time did a big FU to the ATF? I'm pretty sure all the profit RBT makes will go towards their lawsuits. Meanwhile BDU is just a hypocrite by being an RBT distributor and then pulling the rug out from under them. They won't get any business from me. I'm sure WOT will lose the patent case but it distracts from the bigger case stopping the ATF making felons out of non-criminals. And besides, the WOT trigger looks like it was made in someone's basement.
Thomas Graves came up with a design for a force reset trigger some years back not Rare Breed (a kinda sorta sister company of Spikes Tactical). Graves has been associated with at least 2 other companies besides Rare Breed. In addition he is possibly offering a version under his own label “Graves Star-Fire” … if the ATF doesn’t shut down the design for being a “machine gun” like they did bumpstocks. I don’t believe WOT stole Rare Breed’s design since they actually didn’t come up with it either.
As to buying one over the other … quite a few people have said Rare Breed has a few shortcomings that WOT seems to have addressed. As to the look … it’s a tool and looks are secondary to function for that … and even then 90% of the trigger pack won’t be seen.
Ok, yeah they’re pretty much the same. One is skeletonized, that’s all. However, given the function, how much variation can there be while still being a forced reset and working in an AR? Unless RB is saying they own the rights to forced reset.
OP
I was told today that one of the gentlemen that would “upgrade” the Rare Breed and fix the spring issue changed the design and partnered to made WOT. He would mill out the pocket where the spring was and add a plunger and spring at a different angle. The differences is in the spring and plunger. He filed for a patent (which means nothing). This came from one of the guys that partnered with him to redesign it. FWIW this was all part of a conversation with the head of a large company that wouldn’t sell them due to the pending lawsuit. He also wouldn’t sell the Rare Breed but only because the support the Tac-Con trigger. Lawrence owns limited usage rights to the design which indeed is patented to Graves. So his lawsuit will balance on if there is enough difference in the two.
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I believe that’s what he said in the video. And not just for the AR platform. AK and others included.
Guess it would help if I watched the video haha
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BigWaylon
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Late night shower thoughts…as I ponder what hosts I’d like to try one of these in. Wondering if it would work with my AR57 upper. I tried putting it on a full auto lower, and no luck. Turns out they want a couple hundred bucks for a full auto BCG, which they will only sell to a SOT (or maybe any FFL) last time I checked. Can’t remember what the BCG I have even looks like…but with the hard/forced reset trigger operating differently than an actual FA lower, maybe it’ll work with current setup?
IF the BCG is compatible you might have to play with buffers and springs. Do you have an adjustable gas block on the AR57? I’m guessing you run it suppressed? With your experience playing with stuff if anyone could it would be you.
Nope (from my non-professional reading), they say since it's a drop-in, and doesn't require a special bolt, it's new.
Another device for increasing the rate of semiautomatic fire is shown in U.S. Pat. Nos. 9,568,264; 9,816,772; and U.S. Pat. No. 9,939,221, issued to Thomas Allen Graves. The devices shown in these patents forcefully reset the trigger with rigid mechanical contact between the trigger member and the bolt as the action cycles. This invention, however, does not provide a “drop-in” solution for existing popular firearm platforms, like the AR15, AK47 variants, or the Ruger 10/22™. To adapt this invention to an AR-pattern firearm, for example, would require not only a modified fire control mechanism, but also a modified bolt carrier.
Rare Breed was assigned the patent from the inventor Thomas Graves … it may or may not have been an exclusive agreement. In fact Mr Graves and another company are working on another updated version called the Graves Star-Fire which is coming out soon (unless they hold off due to the ATF action) so apparently Mr Graves did not relinquish all control to Rarebreed …
All drop in triggers for AR15s are a breach of Chip McCormicks (CMC) IP patent. This IP patent was sold to Mossberg about 5-6 years ago and Mossberg filed a lawsuit against manufacturers of drop in triggers. CMC continues to make their drop in trigger and pays a fee to Mossberg to do that.
Wilson Combat was the only mfgr. of drop in triggers outside of the CMC/ Mossberg relationship that paid a fee for using the IP and was not named in the lawsuit.
Wilson Combat was the only mfgr. of drop in triggers outside of the CMC/ Mossberg relationship that paid a fee for using the IP and was not named in the lawsuit.
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