GET YERSELF A GLOCK. Get rid of that NICKEL PLATED SISSY PISTOL.
I've been shot a couple times by 1911's and it's no biggie. Doesn't even hardly hurt.
I've been shot a couple times by 1911's and it's no biggie. Doesn't even hardly hurt.
Not your bad. I am just amused that 1911’s don‘t have enough capacity arguments, but 5 shot 38 Special revolvers and the like are all well accepted. Or Sig 938’s. It makes me laugh. Carry what works for you. I don’t really carry 1911’s but will/would in certain situations. I carry several different guns on/off body depending what works in a given situation. Everybody has different needs and situations. I carry different guns at work than I do at home or at our mountain place on a walk. Not really any one gun is perfect for every time and place. At least for me.
And who was it that said a 1911 was like a SA revolver? I want some of what you were smoking. 👻
.....but then we could compare all that to the "modern micro 9mm" and then we are left with a similar situation.To address the "5 shot .38 special" being accepted. I think a fair comparison of apples to apples needs to be made. We are comparing .45 1911 single stacks to other similar sized EDC pistols...Glock 19/CZ-P07/MP9s/etc. The .38 special 5 shooters fall more in line with the pocket pistol/mousegun category of comparison. And if we look to that market, there are plenty that will argue that even a single stack LCP or Glock 42/43 are preferable to a small J-frame.
We are not in disagreement. That is my point......but then we could compare all that to the "modern micro 9mm" and then we are left with a similar situation.
Excepting the ultra tiny tiny .380's, the new higher cap micro 9mm's are a ridiculously small option for that amount of 9mm
To address the "5 shot .38 special" being accepted. I think a fair comparison of apples to apples needs to be made. We are comparing .45 1911 single stacks to other similar sized EDC pistols...Glock 19/CZ-P07/MP9s/etc. The .38 special 5 shooters fall more in line with the pocket pistol/mousegun category of comparison. And if we look to that market, there are plenty that will argue that even a single stack LCP or Glock 42/43 are preferable to a small J-frame.
Does anyone know how many shots are fired in the average/median/typical self defense situation? Is there any actual data on self defense shootings with regards to shots, distances and time? Or do we just base everything on square range training and competition? I am not a police officer or military ninja so will likely not be in any John Wick like movie scenarios. If I don’t frequent Baltimore/Chicago/Detroit on a weekend night at 2 am what do I really need to expect in a bad situation?
I 'think' I had read 3 shots is the average SD engagement. I don't remember when or where I read that, I will see if I can find it.
I will say if you (not you, @CZfool68 , the royal 'you') need 15 shots in a SD situation you got bigger problems than mag capacity. You 'marksmanship' and tactics suck.
Edited to add, I did find this, citing 3 rounds from FBI data: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/the-statistically-perfect-gunfight/#:~:text=FBI stats say the average,rounds to stop the attacker.
Then we were discussing two different things. Comparing a full sized pistol to a pocket pistol is two different things in my opinion. I don't think we would have much of an argument if it were "Is there something better to carry than a 5 round revolver" the answer would be "Absolutely." But if the question is "Is a 5 shot pocket revolver good for pocket carry" then the answer can be "yes".I thought we were discussing all guns that could be carried. Not cherry picking It to suit an argument. And since we all have different jobs, lifestyles, clothes and such we all can carry differently. Some people can easily carry a 5” 1911 or other large gun. Some of us are forced to compromise and carry very small guns.
But since we’re on the interwebz we can argue about a Hi-Point or SCCY being greater than any 1911 I guess since it’s modern and all. 😁
Yessir. There is an abundance of data. NYPD had thousands of pieces of info to go on. They kept strict records through the late 80s. See Clint Smith on YT talk about "how many times will you shoot". Very enlightening. The jist is......all you have. Watch Clint it is a good source for this topic.Does anyone know how many shots are fired in the average/median/typical self defense situation? Is there any actual data on self defense shootings with regards to shots, distances and time?
Yeah, I remember 3/3/3 from some article or discussion. 3 shots, 3 seconds, and 3 yards (could’ve been feet, not sure) for for average SD situation.I 'think' I had read 3 shots is the average SD engagement. I don't remember when or where I read that, I will see if I can find it.
I will say if you (not you, @CZfool68 , the royal 'you') need 15 shots in a SD situation you got bigger problems than mag capacity. Your 'marksmanship' and tactics suck.
Edited to add, I did find this, citing 3 rounds from FBI data: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/the-statistically-perfect-gunfight/#:~:text=FBI stats say the average,rounds to stop the attacker.
This is also...revealing: https://www.tierthreetactical.com/1...ats-backed-by-data-and-real-world-experience/
With cops, it’s definitely all you got!! 🤣Wall, now I is confused... is it three, or all you got?
I took my Springfield Armory 1911 Loaded that had a little cleanup from TommyGuns through a SWAT school. Ran like a champ. I had to carry a few extra WC mags with me to do a lot of the run and gun portions, and a lot of the jeering was from several mag changes which I was good at in that pistol. The instructor said, yeah, but he shot every target in the head with a 230 gn bullet. Every target was dead on that shot. I ended up changing it out for a G22 at that time because of needing a light rail, and the PD was buying .40 in bulk. I carry it to the gun store a lot or my G19, but I certainly don't feel undergunned with it.
Me too. I've owned a bunch of 1911s and they all worked, even the first, a series 70 purchased new in 1973. I say 'even the series 70' because that was from the era when all of the pistoleros said that no Colt worked 100% out of the box. I never got the 'all 1911s have to be tuned to work' thing. Never my experience.All of my 1911s (and I have a few) are very reliable and they work for me. Pick a pistol that you shoot well, chambered in a serious caliber, practice with it and carry it.
What works for me might not work for you and vice versus.
Fitz must have worked on 1911s as well as revolvers.Be sure to check out the 1911 links below! Particularly M.T. “Lone Wolf” Gonzaullas’ custom pair. Both had cut-away trigger guards AND the grip safety was locked in the “fire” position 😱😱😱. He lived to be 86 and clanked every step he took!
I have owned a foot tub of 1911s from the 1970s...never had one that was not 100% with 230 Ball.Me too. I've owned a bunch of 1911s and they all worked, even the first, a series 70 purchased new in 1973. I say 'even the series 70' because that was from the era when all of the pistoleros said that no Colt worked 100% out of the box. I never got the 'all 1911s have to be tuned to work' thing. Never my experience.
Take this from an Old Man.......NOTHING matters but your Health.Maybe times aren’t so bad!
I did win!Maybe you would have won if you weren’t reloading the whole time. 😎😉😬
Like stepping back into a aged time and mindset. Thanks for the link. Those are masterpieces of a time gone by.Be sure to check out the 1911 links below! Particularly M.T. “Lone Wolf” Gonzaullas’ custom pair. Both had cut-away trigger guards AND the grip safety was locked in the “fire” position 😱😱😱. He lived to be 86 and clanked every step he took!
No Sir.It was once the issued sidearm to the Texas Rangers, I don't know if it still is.
The trigger goes directly rearward and interfaces directly with the sear
No, it does not. The trigger never touches the sear.
Our armorers realized that the more 'tuned up' the gun was, the more prone to malfunction.
I spoke with one of the Marine armorers at length a few years back...sitting here at my kitchen table. Some of the "building" techniques that he described made me wonder how the guns functioned at all, particularly in the area of barrel fitting.
As they say:
Something has been lost in the translation.
They'd have been better off pulling a few dozen of the rearsenaled pistols in inventory and pressing those into service.
Back in the day, during that little unpleasant thing in Southeast Asia, the US Army took up all the bad, old 20 round M16 magazines and issued the fine, new 30 rounders.The majority of Texas Rangers nowdays carry either a Sig or a 2011 for a reason.
Capacity....
Lordy! Where DO some of these ideas come from?
Detritus said:
The trigger goes directly rearward and interfaces directly with the sear
No, it does not. The trigger never touches the sear.
I doubt he was trying to be mean...Ya know, most folks would look at the mechanics of the 1911 lock-work and say Yep "trigger straight back, pushes on sear" is an accurate description. But you quoted me so as to make a "wow what a dork" comment because I forgot that when the slide is in battery the lower end of the disconnector acts as a mechanically inconsequential spacer between the trigger-bow and sear (Mea culpa, I forgot that the disconnector is between the two with the gun ready to fire). Meaning that yes, you're technically right the trigger bow does not make "direct contact" with the actual sear, but for the purposes of the question that I was responding to, the bottom of the disconnector is a shim on the sear.
But you felt it necessary to come in and be a pedant and do an "Actually...." because of a part that is literally along for the ride, until after the process that was being discussed. Really?
Nope. That's not why I did it. I don't do that. I see misconceptions and misunderstandings as to the pistol's function and try to clear up those misunderstandings so that all can learn from it. I've run into this particular one dozens of times over the last 50-odd years.But you quoted me so as to make a "wow what a dork" comment
I dont think Ive ever seen Mr Travis say ANYTHING mean spirited
I have no meanness in me, not even when somebody turns rude or insulting. It's just not part of my makeup.
Thanks for the good words.
Warm, fuzzy delivery isn't something I've ever been real good at. Flat statements, yes.I appreciate it when accurate information is shared even if the delivery isn't warm and fuzzy enough for everybody.
Capacity
This is the reason why "capacity" and carrying a spare magazine are good things and why none of the rest matter.One...It never happens the way you think it will.