ATF and SB pistol braces

Have you done anything about this besides complain?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 86.4%

  • No, I’m just here to rant

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • Total voters
    22
Murtaugh said:
I think a new law would have to be passed to ban/grab semi-automatics. Semi automatic firearms are not NFA items unless they fall in the SBR or other categories which are specified by law.
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Yes. If Georgia doesn't net one seat on the runoff election guess who has carte blanche to pass an assault weapon ban?
 
Timfoilhat said:
Yes. If Georgia doesn't net one seat on the runoff election guess who has carte blanche to pass an assault weapon ban?
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If they have "carte blanche" then why waste time clarifying pistol/brace definitions? Granting items an NFA status (for free) that would have later been banned by an assault weapons ban doesn't seem to add up.

They couldn't pass an assault weapons ban when Obama had both houses and I don't think they have the support this time either.
 
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Murtaugh said:
I think a new law would have to be passed to ban/grab semi-automatics. Semi automatic firearms are not NFA items unless they fall in the SBR or other categories which are specified by law.
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What law was passed to classify bumpstocks as machine guns?
 
Murtaugh said:
If they have "carte blanche" then why waste time clarifying pistol/brace definitions? Granting items an NFA status (for free) that would have later been banned by an assault weapons ban doesn't seem to add up.

They couldn't pass an assault weapons ban when Obama had both houses and I don't think they have the support this time either.
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Because I dont think they'll get a pistol ban. A rifle ban and a mag ban could happen. The point is to get more people to voluntarily register their pistols as SBRs then ban the possession of all assault rifles to include the SBRs they now know you have.
 
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Timfoilhat said:
Because I dont think they'll get a pistol ban. A rifle ban and a mag ban could happen. The point is to get more people to voluntarily register their pistols as SBRs then ban the possession of all assault rifles to include the SBRs they now know you have.
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Anything is possible but that seems like a ton of effort to add a very small number of ARs to the register just to seize later. I'd bet they could find far more ARs just by seizing the manufacturer's records and tracing to the end buyer and obtaining a search warrant for their homes/properties. Unless they have voter fraud perfected, seizures of any kind are almost certain to flip the house and senate back in 2022 and hand (insert republican) his win in 2024.
 
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The way I read that, it's not about the brace. Even if you take the brace off and destroy it, hour AR pistol may still be an SBR based on other vague factors such as optic choice, weight, AFG or hand stop, caliber/recoil.... Even unbraced they may consider it an unregistered SBR?

I hope I'm wrong but that's my read of it.
 
RR said:
The way I read that, it's not about the brace. Even if you take the brace off and destroy it, hour AR pistol may still be an SBR based on other vague factors such as optic choice, weight, AFG or hand stop, caliber/recoil.... Even unbraced they may consider it an unregistered SBR?

I hope I'm wrong but that's my read of it.
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Right. There will still be completely legal uses for braces.

It’s the holistic view of the firearm. But it’s like the old “you won’t know what’s in it til we pass it” crap the gov pulls.
 
BigWaylon said:
Right. There will still be completely legal uses for braces.

It’s the holistic view of the firearm. But it’s like the old “you won’t know what’s in it til we pass it” crap the gov pulls.
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And completely illegal ones.

Roll those dice???
 
RR said:
And completely illegal ones.

Roll those dice???
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Yep. I’m about 50/50 on which ones I have that will be kosher.
 
BigWaylon said:
Yep. I’m about 50/50 on which ones I have that will be kosher.
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But you don’t know this. The guidance is that the guidelines will be objective, but as it reads they are very much subjective. There is no objective way for someone who assembles a pistol to know if the ATF will decide that it is an SBR. I suppose we could submit 1,000,000 letters asking for guidance, say for 1 pistol send in 10 or 20 requests, each based on a different possible optic and/or it being a 10 vs 20 vs 30 round magazine, etc.

We should all get together and shoot our braced pistols as braced pistols, lots of pics with them strapped to our arms and held out with one or two hands having fun. Do this once or twice a year. Seems like it’d be a good enough show of intent to act as a defense for such a flimsy rule.

Not yet discussed, but if a pistol can become a rifle based on capacity or weight or optic, could a rifle with a barrel longer than 16” be considered an SBR based on it’s design? Need to look at where required barrel length is established, hopefully it’s in the act. Anyway, thinking bullpups.
 
JimB said:
But you don’t know this. The guidance is that the guidelines will be objective, but as it reads they are very much subjective. There is no objective way for someone who assembles a pistol to know if the ATF will decide that it is an SBR. I suppose we could submit 1,000,000 letters asking for guidance, say for 1 pistol send in 10 or 20 requests, each based on a different possible optic and/or it being a 10 vs 20 vs 30 round magazine, etc.

We should all get together and shoot our braced pistols as braced pistols, lots of pics with them strapped to our arms and held out with one or two hands having fun. Do this once or twice a year. Seems like it’d be a good enough show of intent to act as a defense for such a flimsy rule.

Not yet discussed, but if a pistol can become a rifle based on capacity or weight or optic, could a rifle with a barrel longer than 16” be considered an SBR based on it’s design? Need to look at where required barrel length is established, hopefully it’s in the act. Anyway, thinking bullpups.
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A friendly braced pistol competition with photos is a great idea. Normalizing the use of braces would be an ideal way to fight in court. Heck, we could have a small fee to enter the competition and split the proceeds between the winners and a disabled vets group.
 
JimB said:
But you don’t know this. The guidance is that the guidelines will be objective, but as it reads they are very much subjective. There is no objective way for someone who assembles a pistol to know if the ATF will decide that it is an SBR. I suppose we could submit 1,000,000 letters asking for guidance, say for 1 pistol send in 10 or 20 requests, each based on a different possible optic and/or it being a 10 vs 20 vs 30 round magazine, etc.

We should all get together and shoot our braced pistols as braced pistols, lots of pics with them strapped to our arms and held out with one or two hands having fun. Do this once or twice a year. Seems like it’d be a good enough show of intent to act as a defense for such a flimsy rule.

Not yet discussed, but if a pistol can become a rifle based on capacity or weight or optic, could a rifle with a barrel longer than 16” be considered an SBR based on it’s design? Need to look at where required barrel length is established, hopefully it’s in the act. Anyway, thinking bullpups.
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Right. I don’t know. But they’re not outlawing braced firearms. And if anything is going to stay in the pistol category, a 6” or less barrel in a pIstol caliber with a non-magnified red dot has to be on the far end of the “ok” spectrum.
 
BigWaylon said:
Right. I don’t know. But they’re not outlawing braced firearms. And if anything is going to stay in the pistol category, a 6” or less barrel in a pIstol caliber with a non-magnified red dot has to be on the far end of the “ok” spectrum.
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Agree. I'll even suggest a barrel as long as 8" is acceptable so long as it has a brace that received an ATF letter and the brace is installed to the same type of receiver that the ATF evaluated.
I've got an autoimmune problem that affects hand strength. I can fire a braced 8" AR9 accurately with one arm. The brace does work and really is functional in it's intended use.
Pistol caliber is going to be a big part of this when the details shake out.
 
I just want to go to the range man and not have some spook cuff me and "tactically ascertain" that I manufactured an SBR.

see avi for a clearer picture of the future.
 
Dale Gribble said:
Another big part of this will be the number of folks who decide whether they are a citizen or a subject.
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Just about all. Every time I hear "Guess I will just comply" want to bang my head on my desk. Almost as bad as asking their wife for "permission".
 
zuerjoha said:
Apparently only original comments will be considered, so don't bother copy/pasting.
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JBoyette said:
Well damn it!

That removes 96% of responses.

The other 4% who give a REAL damn, will have to take a hour out of thier day and type a response.
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That was kind of my point, and I think it was taken the wrong way.
The ATF doesn't care what we say, what letters we send, who we call... they don't work for us. As a branch of government that has an active mission of enforcing laws about victimless crimes, which are only crimes because they administratively say so, they work against us.

They don't care about unique or original comments because it's basically they have already done the math and think they'll have the clout to do this soon. They already have arguments about why any original point somebody might make doesn't apply. They'll just say that all comments fall into certain categories, ignore anything that makes a truly good point, and tear down the strawmen arguments they claim we all said.

But yes, send in a comment. I intend to. I still plan to contact my reps over this, because that may be more effective than submitting a comment to the atf. we may be going into that good night, but we don't have to be quiet about it.
 
Window shopping over at gun-deals, and I notice that all the AR pistol types were being sold without braces. Still had the 6 position tube, but no brace.
The only real exceptions were the 9 and 45 versions with the stubby barrels.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Any word on what caused this action?
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Pissed off citizens.

I’d imagine they received quite a bit of pushback from the industry and possibly, some politicians, as well.

Reckon they looked at the comments and decided they didn’t want that smoke.
 
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"As explained in the notice, the proposed guidance was not a regulation. The notice informed and invited comment from the industry and public on a proposed guidance prior to issuing a final guidance document."
 
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Per a comment on ARF by a guy claiming to be the founder of PSA

"There has been a massive industry and political push back behind the scenes. A lot of the details can’t be revealed, but someone and some really important politicians looked out for the industry. A lot of work is gone into this. There is still more to this fight, but our industry owes a debt of gratitude. I haven’t been this happy since the assault weapons ban lapsed. We are done being on defense and are now on offense."
 
Timfoilhat said:
Any word on what caused this action?
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NC Representative Richard Hudson ... he called on the powers that be (for now) to stop the ATF thing. Even though it won’t fly, GA Representative Marjorie Greene is drafting a bill to “defund” the ATF. To bad Slo Joe & The Ho will be in Office in less than a month ...
 
Timfoilhat said:
Per a comment on ARF by a guy claiming to be the founder of PSA

"There has been a massive industry and political push back behind the scenes. A lot of the details can’t be revealed, but someone and some really important politicians looked out for the industry. A lot of work is gone into this. There is still more to this fight, but our industry owes a debt of gratitude. I haven’t been this happy since the assault weapons ban lapsed. We are done being on defense and are now on offense."
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I appreciate the "industry"... But, this shouldn't be about "politicians pushing back for the industry". It should be "Americans pushing back for the republic! "

Defund the ATF!
 
premise said:
I can tell you that on Reddit (yes, I know) LOTS of folks were posting photos of their pistols adorned with full on stocks with the brace unattached laying beside it. Change much? I dunno, but disobedience to a corrupt Kafka-esque organization is duty and salvation.
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😊👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
 
NCFubar said:
NC Representative Richard Hudson ... he called on the powers that be (for now) to stop the ATF thing. Even though it won’t fly, GA Representative Marjorie Greene is drafting a bill to “defund” the ATF. To bad Slo Joe & The Ho will be in Office in less than a month ...
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www.thetruthaboutguns.com

90 Congressmen Send Letter Opposing ATF's Regulation of Pistol Stabilizing Braces - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Eighty-nine members of Congress sent a letter to Attorney General William Barr and acting ATF director Regina Lombardo yesterday. They’re objecting to the ATF’s vague and arbitrary proposed “objective factors” for determining when a pistol with a stabilizing brace...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com www.thetruthaboutguns.com
 
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